how to practise..

[eeehws3]

hi! any suggestions/techniques on how to practise:

1. Etude op.10 no.7 - Chopin
2. Etude op.25 no.12 - Chopin
3. Toccata op.11 - Prokofiev
4. Rondo Capriccioso, op.14 - Mendelssohn

PLEASE! i need all the help i can get!

thanks in advance! :-)

[thierry13]

hi! any suggestions/techniques on how to practise:

1. Etude op.10 no.7 - Chopin
2. Etude op.25 no.12 - Chopin
3. Toccata op.11 - Prokofiev
4. Rondo Capriccioso, op.14 - Mendelssohn

PLEASE! i need all the help i can get!

thanks in advance! :-)

If you ask technical advices on a forum for THOSE pieces, you are NOT ready to tackle them. I played op.25 no.12 a long time ago and I'm having a hard time with prokofiev's toccata right now. Maybe you should begin with rondo capriccioso and see how you ca manage that. Get a teacher, that's the best thing you can do.

[eeehws3]

If you ask technical advices on a forum for THOSE pieces, you are NOT ready to tackle them. I played op.25 no.12 a long time ago and I'm having a hard time with prokofiev's toccata right now. Maybe you should begin with rondo capriccioso and see how you ca manage that. Get a teacher, that's the best thing you can do.

your reply is appreciated, although i must say, a bit baseless - you jump to conclusions that i do not have a teacher when in fact, i DO have one. she will be away for a couple of weeks, and seeing as i just attended masterclasses in Germany and the Professor suggested these repertoire to me, i wanted to "surprise" my teacher a little with some progress as soon as she returns.

i also kinda thought the whole POINT of forums was to get feedback, advice, suggestions etc...?? i personally do not see anything wrong in asking others for advice, seeing as they actually help the learning process.. i'm always open to new suggestions and tips, which is why i came here in the first place.

i basically wanted fingerings for the Prokofiev toccata - my version is devoid of any and all fingerings!, and any other methods of shortening the learning process is very much appreciated. i basically learn most of my repertoire through HS, slow practise and repetition, which seems to work for me, but takes ages to perfect. ...anyone..? ;-P

[thierry13]

your reply is appreciated, although i must say, a bit baseless - you jump to conclusions that i do not have a teacher when in fact, i DO have one. she will be away for a couple of weeks, and seeing as i just attended masterclasses in Germany and the Professor suggested these repertoire to me, i wanted to "surprise" my teacher a little with some progress as soon as she returns.

i also kinda thought the whole POINT of forums was to get feedback, advice, suggestions etc...?? i personally do not see anything wrong in asking others for advice, seeing as they actually help the learning process.. i'm always open to new suggestions and tips, which is why i came here in the first place.

i basically wanted fingerings for the Prokofiev toccata - my version is devoid of any and all fingerings!, and any other methods of shortening the learning process is very much appreciated. i basically learn most of my repertoire through HS, slow practise and repetition, which seems to work for me, but takes ages to perfect. ...anyone..? ;-P

I would have tought that, at the level of chopin studies and prokofiev toccata particularly, you would actually know hot to practice and find effective fingerings that work for you. I'm currently doing that particular toccata and my fingerings work great, if a particular passage bugs you that's fine and you can ask, but why I reacted this way is because you had no real question, it was too general ... if you can't answer how to practice those etudes in a very general way that works for you, you should definitely tackle something else. If you think you're fine with those, do your own work and ask more precise questions.

[lostinidlewonder]

It would be better if you post specific problems that you face in these pieces themselves rather than ask for overall general help on them which will result in less relevant and scattered advice for you. So the first step you should take is to sight through all the pieces and take stock of what challenges you and how you will tackle it.

[thierry13]

It would be better if you post specific problems that you face in these pieces themselves rather than ask for overall general help on them which will result in less relevant and scattered advice for you. So the first step you should take is to sight through all the pieces and take stock of what challenges you and how you will tackle it.

My point exactly.

[slobone]

Or, you could watch this and figure out this guy's fingering:

[eeehws3]

okay i just re-read everything, thierry13 - sorry for that "outburst", had a bad day and took it out here. you're right, so here are my (hopefully) more specific questions!

1. Prokofiev Toccata op11: how to acquire accuracy and strength/"power" in the left hand jumps - my chords always seem very light and no matter how much energy i channel into the chords, it sounds weak and the more energy i try to put into it, the more wrong notes i hit. also, what fingering do you use at bars 77-78 in the right hand; does slow HS practise work for this piece - i'm doing slow HS but do not think i'm improving very much, the notes are...wild.

2. Chopin Etude op25 no12: i've basically got the notes, this one doesnt seem too difficult, but i seem to get tired and a bit tense after the fourth page or so. how do i avoid tension? can anyone teach/tell me how to relax/practise economical use of muscles so i dont get tired easily?

3. Chopin Etude op.10 no7: this one is actually harder for me than 25/12. i dont know if the movement should come from the fingers, wrist, forearms, or shoulders. the whole etude is very easy to sight-read  or merely "play" but whenever i speed up the tempo a little bit, i make mistakes everywhere in the RH. i THINK i'm playing from my fingers and arms but i dont know if that's correct.

*phew!* lengthy!

[dnephi]

Practice with a metronome.

[gyzzzmo]

okay i just re-read everything, thierry13 - sorry for that "outburst", had a bad day and took it out here. you're right, so here are my (hopefully) more specific questions!

1. Prokofiev Toccata op11: how to acquire accuracy and strength/"power" in the left hand jumps - my chords always seem very light and no matter how much energy i channel into the chords, it sounds weak and the more energy i try to put into it, the more wrong notes i hit. also, what fingering do you use at bars 77-78 in the right hand; does slow HS practise work for this piece - i'm doing slow HS but do not think i'm improving very much, the notes are...wild.

2. Chopin Etude op25 no12: i've basically got the notes, this one doesnt seem too difficult, but i seem to get tired and a bit tense after the fourth page or so. how do i avoid tension? can anyone teach/tell me how to relax/practise economical use of muscles so i dont get tired easily?

3. Chopin Etude op.10 no7: this one is actually harder for me than 25/12. i dont know if the movement should come from the fingers, wrist, forearms, or shoulders. the whole etude is very easy to sight-read  or merely "play" but whenever i speed up the tempo a little bit, i make mistakes everywhere in the RH. i THINK i'm playing from my fingers and arms but i dont know if that's correct.

*phew!* lengthy!

For general (but most important) tips, go to this thread: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,28636.0.html

point 1: I havent played the toccata, so i cant give you advise about that one.
point 2: To avoid tention, consentrate on your arms and try to relax them. I hardly use any arm movement in this piece because i move my upper body. Maybe thats your problem
point 3: If you start making mistakes, you play it too fast. If you have all the notes right in your brains, go use a metronome and play it at a speed at wich you hardly make any mistakes. Speed comes with time.

good luck,
gyzzzmo

[thierry13]

okay i just re-read everything, thierry13 - sorry for that "outburst", had a bad day and took it out here. you're right, so here are my (hopefully) more specific questions!

1. Prokofiev Toccata op11: how to acquire accuracy and strength/"power" in the left hand jumps - my chords always seem very light and no matter how much energy i channel into the chords, it sounds weak and the more energy i try to put into it, the more wrong notes i hit. also, what fingering do you use at bars 77-78 in the right hand; does slow HS practise work for this piece - i'm doing slow HS but do not think i'm improving very much, the notes are...wild.

2. Chopin Etude op25 no12: i've basically got the notes, this one doesnt seem too difficult, but i seem to get tired and a bit tense after the fourth page or so. how do i avoid tension? can anyone teach/tell me how to relax/practise economical use of muscles so i dont get tired easily?

3. Chopin Etude op.10 no7: this one is actually harder for me than 25/12. i dont know if the movement should come from the fingers, wrist, forearms, or shoulders. the whole etude is very easy to sight-read  or merely "play" but whenever i speed up the tempo a little bit, i make mistakes everywhere in the RH. i THINK i'm playing from my fingers and arms but i dont know if that's correct.

*phew!* lengthy!

Prokofiev : I use for the left hand (upper voice) 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 2 1 1, and 5 on every bass note. For rigth hand : (5 3 1) (2 1) (5 2 1)  (2 1) (5 3 1) (2 1) (4 2 1) (5 2 1) (5 3 1) (1 2) (5 3 1) (2 1) (5 3 1) (2 1) (5 2 1) (3 1). The rest is a repetition on a different octave with the same fingering.

25/12 : Try relaxing completly on each peak (bass/ highest note of the arpeggio), stoping if necessary, and being as relax as possible while you go up the keyboard.

10/7 : I think you should try out a drawer type of movement initiated at the elbow, with as less finger action as possible (but they must be firm). Feel that even when you are in the pulling motion part of your drawer movement, the attack must not be superficial and it is never your fingers who are pulling, the fingers stay firm.

[jinfiesto]

1. Prokofiev Toccata op11: how to acquire accuracy and strength/"power" in the left hand jumps - my chords always seem very light and no matter how much energy i channel into the chords, it sounds weak and the more energy i try to put into it, the more wrong notes i hit. also, what fingering do you use at bars 77-78 in the right hand; does slow HS practise work for this piece - i'm doing slow HS but do not think i'm improving very much, the notes are...wild.

Honestly dude, that's your problem right there. You're hitting notes, and you think that "hitting" them harder will make them sound bigger. The solution is kind of hard to explain. My teacher describes it as lifting sound from the piano. Argerich says that you should play as if the keyboard were underneath the piano. I've also heard that you should play "through" the keyboard for a bigger sound. "hitting" the notes harder won't help you on this one buddy. Push all the way down to the keybed, and then some. (not really, but thinking of it that way might help ) Also, think down into the key, and not up out of the key. Play from the higher chord to the lower chord, not from the lower to the higher...