do you get stage fright

[sarah the pianist]

Hi, I only get nervous on stage, but lots of other people get stage fright (throw up etc.)
 I would like this to be a place where you can give advice to people who need help.

[quantum]

Don't try to play perfectly.  Just play.

[richard black]

Practise more.

[nyonyo]

I will be afraid and nervous if I am not ready, otherwise, I am pretty good on stage. Within a few second, I could totally get into my music and played as if there were no audience.

[G.W.K]

Don't try to play perfectly.  Just play.

That would be difficult, especially if you are in an exam or competition.

G.W.K

[Bob]

Prepare well.

Practice performing.

Be happy if you perform how you practiced it (ie not perfect).

[omei]

When you walk onto the stage, say this to yourself; "I am going to have fun."

Once you are settled down in front of the piano, look at the keyboard, think about the music you are going to share with your audience, and make sure you have it in your inner hearing before you actually play.

When you bow to your audience at the end of your performance, say this to them; "Thank you for your listening. "

Try these! See if they work.

[shortyshort]

I've only done it once.
A small local competition.
I did it to give support to my step daughter who was also competing for the first time.

I had a couple of pints before my class began.
All my nerves had gone, as if by magic.

But I must add, that I'm not saying that is was a good idea, as I did completely mess up one of my pieces.

[alhimia]

Practise more.

Practise less.

[G.W.K]

Practise less.

Why?

G.W.K

[alhimia]

Why?

G.W.K

Once you are ready to perform a piece (if you are not ready to perform the piece, of course, you should practise first), I think it is very important to do not overpractise the piece.
Also it depends on how you practise, but my experience is that if the piece is in your mind and fingers and you have a clear conception on what you want to say with the piece, I think you shouldn't focus your attention on repeating passages over and over again.
If you regard studying the score in your head as a kind of practising as well, then, I think practising can help you right before a concert.
I think 'training your fingers' will not help you at the last moment; it is better to take a rest, and if you want to practise, practise very slowly.

But of course, these things are very personal. I only wanted to point out that more practising will not always help you to overcome stage fright. 

[slobone]

Better yet -- once you get past a certain point, stop practicing and start performing.

If you've pretty much learned the piece as well as you're going to learn it, and there's, say, 2 weeks till your recital, spend most of your practice time playing through the piece from start to finish without stopping. If you're playing more than one piece, play the whole program in order. Be sure and practice things like how long to wait between movements, and even how to bow at the end of the piece, if that's part of the routine. 

Do this as often as you can. Don't spend a lot of time on trouble spots unless a) they're really awful and b) you have some hope of fixing them fairly quickly. Your attitude at this point should be one of enjoying the music you worked so hard to learn.

Nothing is worse than somebody who's still trying to fix that "killer measure" two hours before the recital. A surefire recipe for stage fright...

[Bob]

Perform enough times to where you know what everyone will think already.  No suprises. 

You can practice that.  Actual ones work a lot better.  It's more real.  Just play easier music and do a few more. 

A lot of people do their "real" performance material and actually perform it for another group a few times in advance of that "real" performance. 


Another aspect I noticed was just having time to worry about the performance.  I've done a few where there was so much going on and I had things that needed to get done afterward, that the performance was fairly minor.  So I guess if you can 'not think about it' for worrying about the performance, that will help a lot. 

[gyzzzmo]

Im glad i could tag the 'no, nearly' answer. When i was like 10 i played for a 2000 people crowd, almost pied my pence there. After that, i was strangely cured from the stage fright . I only have that butterfly feeling when i have to perform, thats why the 'nearly'.

gyzzzmo

[omei]

When you perform on stage, you are not playing without audience. Be realistic and, on the contrary, you play for your audience. You, as a performing artist, feel the music and try to communicate with your audience. Let the beauty of performing art keep you free from the stage fright

[slobone]

Yes -- and remember, if you do make a booboo, 99% of the audience won't be aware of it. So learn to cover up well.

I once went to an all-Liszt recital (ugh) by Misha Dichter. In the middle of one piece, which went like lightning, he suddenly got a look of absolute panic on his face. I assume he couldn't remember what was coming next. Apparently he recovered, or at least I couldn't detect any mistakes. But to this day, that moment of panic is all I remember about the concert.

So don't do that.

[gerry]

This discussion brings up a related subject - I wouldn't call it stagefright but it's how the mind/finger coordination differs when "on stage." Even though I know a piece well and can play it flawlessly when alone, sometimes when I perform for friends, while I'm not nervous, I find my state of mind is somehow different and not letting my fingers "do the walking" which they are capable of doing. My mind begins to sort of play tricks by thinking ahead or of things not conducive to directing my fingers properly like thinking of whether or not my friends are impressed or bored, even a slight self-consciousness, etc. Sometimes I can look at the keyboard and for a split second it can seem like a foreign object. Years of accompanying helped me with this in that the focus wasn't 100% on me as well as being afforded occasional measures of rest during which I could sort things out and try to redirect my thinking. Like I said, I don't consider this as debilitating as stagefright but could lead to it if not dealt with.

[keypeg]

For me at the moment of performance the world disappears.  When the performance is over, it's like "coming to" - you look around, you see there is an audience, you're on stage or in a church, and you guage their reaction.  Two or three days before a performance a deep strong calm settles in that does not want to be disturbed.  I no longer want to play the whole piece, but sort of "hold it in the background", pecking at this or that as it occurs to me to tweak it a bit more.

This leads to a question.  My teacher likes to rehearse something a lot just before performance, and it seems as close to performance as possible.  I find that I want to hold back.  It "empties" me before having a chance to give it to the audience.  I like touching the music lightly, going over harder spots or technical areas that I want to remember especially.

How do others feel about this, I mean what you do one or two days before a performance?

[gerry]

I agree. I think that if you've got a piece "nailed" it's not always beneficial to play it too much before a concert - rather spend the time playing light technical warm-up etudes, etc.

[slobone]

Once a piece is at performance level, you should "keep it warm" by playing it through once a day at a relatively slow tempo, with the metronome on, as mechanically as possible with no attempt at expression.

Hey, that's what my last teacher told me. I haven't tried it, but I almost think it might work.

[Essyne]

Visualization is what works for me. Visualize the audience. Visualize you doing a phenomenal job. I'm NOT going to say "If you think it, you can DO IT!," but your attitude going into a performance will make or break you.

I'm with you keypeg. Before I perform, I do not know the world around me. All I know is what I'm about to do. I have to be THE MUSIC, not myself.

You are personifying the music. Don't let YOUR emotions get in the way, because, quite frankly, YOU don't matter, save the fact that you are playing the notes. You're not you anymore, you're the emotion, the passion, the music, the piano itself, down to the smallest wood fiber (okay, yeah, but up until "the smallest wood fiber," I was 100% serious).

For me, music is not about roses or glossy headshots. It's about purpose. Be purposeful, and you'll be fine.

[nia_kurniati]

Yes I got it too everytime I go on stage. I doing this : I memorize, really really memorize 1-2 phrase at the beggining. This is the time when my hands become cold and I couldnt focus. The next is oke enough that I could go on playing.

[nia_kurniati]

Don't try to play perfectly.  Just play.

I think its a good advice u know for someone who really got stage fright

[m19834]

Knowns :

-Repertoire/Material
-Who you are
-What you are thinking
-How much work has been put in
-What kind of results you have had in practice
-Your own body and how it relates to the repertoire
-Your own body and how to use it at the piano
-Your own experiences (how much, how little)
-Your own desires
-Can get yourself out of trouble/can cope with mistakes
-You will (most likely) survive
-How to relate with people (in a number of "different" ways : socially, artisticly, spiritually, authoritatively, etc)


Unknowns : 

-Exactly who is in the audience (you do have some control over this)
-Exactly what they are thinking (here again, you can have *some* sense about what your context is for performing and what is being expected of you)
-If people will like it/you or not (most people, on a fundamental level, want to like other people)
-The piano*
-The venue* (acoustics, temperature, general feel, etc.)
-What kind of mistake will be made (though there is quite a bit of control here, too)

*These may actually be/turn into "knowns" - and you may have some control over that.

There are probably a number of things that can be added to my lists above, but as you can see, there are actually very few items that are truly unknown and completely out of our control -- and that mostly has to do with other people and what they are/might be thinking (though, there is a caveat here, too ).  Also, there are items in the "known" list that may not be truly apparent at different times of a person's life -- like who you are, for example, or what your desires are (these things can actually be cause for more nerves than a person might think).  I have spent many a pre-performance in a kind of deep, subconscious state of wondering who I truly am, what was I doing there, where was I (?), why was I really there (?) ... these sorts of things.  I have had many nerves, if not the majority of them (and my most debilitating ones) simply because of feeling a bit out of place.  This kind of state, coupled with a number of other "unknowns" that could potentially be knowns --- like knowing the repertoire really well --- can make for a pretty scary experience.

Now, an interesting thing about the "knowns" category is that not *everything* has to be perfectly in place in order to have a successful performance.  I think that ultimately, knowing the repertoire and knowing that you know it, are top priority in terms of a person's level of comfort goes in the performance itself.   However, even if there are questions for you about how well you truly know it, but if you know yourself really well and if you know that you can pull yourself out of mistakes, you can definitely artistically, creatively, and musically survive a performance (this will depend a bit on the audience, too).  You can probably sense that having as many things as possible be "known," and as few things as possible be "unkowns," the better.

Performance itself is an art, but it's something that can be practiced in every moment of our lives.  This is a reason that actors who are very dedicated to their work will often enter a mindframe that the whole world is a stage !  Who we are as a performer is not truly anybody else than who we are as a person in everyday life -- at least there is *a lot* that we can pull on when it comes time to perform.

Some very practical advice is that performing must be practiced.  For every level of performance we are aiming for, there are levels of preparation that can give us steps in the right direction.  For example, if I am aiming to play for my family reunion, it will start with me practicing and performing for myself.  Then I may turn on a recording device.  I may play for my doggy.  Then I may play for a trusted friend, or a few trusted friends.  "Visualization" can be utilized before every one of these events (including playing for oneself).

Finally, I have found that playing the same repertoire many times -- and in various scenarios (ideally a *very* long string of performances (100 or so)) -- is one of the best ways to gain confidence as a performer.

[m19834]

I would also like to add that, if you have had a "bad" experience, especially if it has been one that has caused "trauma" -- I would urge you to take a look at the lists I have posted up above and pragmatically address your experience(s).  See if you can pinpoint what was really happening for you during that performance; chances are, it was not exactly what it seemed, according to how you remember it today.  Chances are, if the experience was truly traumatizing, there were simply a number of key elements out of place (for whatever reasons -- some of which you may be able to pinpoint today) that could actually be addressed and overcome with that simple knowledge.  Use whatever wisdom you have gained in hindsight, and keep going !

[keypeg]

It's strange reading these thoughts and lists.  I've never considered what happens when I perform.  What I am thinking?  Nothing.  It's just slowing down and being there.  Also, I don't like people to talk to me or be engaged in conversation.  One is just "there".  ?  Like, I would not want to think any of these things, because I would not want to think.  There is no chatting of the mind.  Just ..... there - ness.  Hard to explain.  Um?  Is there not a place, when you play or perform, where there are no words?

[m19834]

It's strange reading these thoughts and lists.  I've never considered what happens when I perform.  What I am thinking?  Nothing.  It's just slowing down and being there.  Also, I don't like people to talk to me or be engaged in conversation.  One is just "there".  ?  Like, I would not want to think any of these things, because I would not want to think.  There is no chatting of the mind.  Just ..... there - ness.  Hard to explain. 

 

Congratulations, what you are describing is ideal, I think.  However, it doesn't necessarily happen to everybody and this doesn't necessarily happen every time.  What's the mystery there ?  My thoughts are there for those whom struggle, which apparently you do not.  Most of what I have talked about has come from post-concert analysis and needing to learn how to cope with less than perfect experiences and extreme cases of nerves -- which is what the thread is about, I believe.  If you don't find it helpful, don't bother with it -- I happen to think it's actually pretty valuable for those whom may need help in this area.

Um?  Is there not a place, when you play or perform, where there are no words?

"Um" what ?  Of course there's a place like that.

[keypeg]

I'm trying to explore and understand.  I think that the moment that it came together for me is when I did not think of performing at all.  I was thinking totally of the music that I was about to perform: like intense practicing but something more.  I felt almost "selfish" for doing so.  Yet that is when the music transmitted to people apparently.

When I tried to describe this thing of when we play for ourselves, and there is only the music and no thoughts, that's what it's like.  I've almost come to the conclusion that when I perform I should not think of it as performing.  Rather that I should be in my private bubble and trust that the music will transmit.  It's a turnaround from a few years ago when I thought I should perform and communicate to the audience. When I began to communicate with the muisc, the audience received it. While I tried to communicate the music to the audience it was almost a distraction.

[m19834]

I'm trying to explore and understand.  I think that the moment that it came together for me is when I did not think of performing at all.  I was thinking totally of the music that I was about to perform: like intense practicing but something more.  I felt almost "selfish" for doing so.  Yet that is when the music transmitted to people apparently.

When I tried to describe this thing of when we play for ourselves, and there is only the music and no thoughts, that's what it's like.  I've almost come to the conclusion that when I perform I should not think of it as performing.  Rather that I should be in my private bubble and trust that the music will transmit.  It's a turnaround from a few years ago when I thought I should perform and communicate to the audience. When I began to communicate with the muisc, the audience received it. While I tried to communicate the music to the audience it was almost a distraction.

Well, see, keypeg, once again, I am not disagreeing with you.  As I have said, what you have described is ideal and I know what you are talking about because I know what it is like to experience it (but not everybody knows what that feels like).  You are basically just describing what it is like to perform without worry, without concern, without fear.  It's like saying to somebody who is afraid (for their life) "Oh, don't be afraid, I'm not."

How do you get there ?  Isn't that the idea here ?

[keypeg]

I think that "how did I get there" is what I'm trying to reach. 

I think I'd like to explore perceptions.  For example, "getting nervous playing in front of a teacher" so one "plays better at home" is so common for us adult students that it's become almost a self depreciating joke.  But a couple of us discovered that by changing the chosen perception, what was a large problem vanished overnight.  We were not performing for our teachers: we were engaged in a mutual building process.  As soon as that perception was in place, the whole preimse changed, and so did our performance in lessons.

Something that strikes me often is the impression that for many performance is like when you go out to perform as an Olympic gymnast.  The attention is on you, how well you do, howell you play.  How correct was the interpretation? Were there wobbles.  Even - did you move the audience?  "Performance" is an achievement.

I'm not wording it too well.  But essentially this is a choice, an attitude, and a perception.

What if a performance were perceived differently?  What if we gave it a different name?  I have described what it has become for me. Playing for me has always been an immersion in music.  I drifted a bit when I began formal lessons, and I thought I had to "communicate" with the audience.  That actually made me communicate less.

But I found my stance totally on some occasion maybe two years ago where I had ignored the audience, ceased "communicating" and immersed myself totally in the playing.  Then in the presence of my teacher.  Then I was playing for myself at home and a neighbour told me how moved they were.  It seemed that my music communicated the most when I stopped communicating or being aware of anyone.  I felt selfish and guilty for ignoring the audience.  Then I realized that when I ignored them the most, and centred on my music "selflishly" I reached them ........ no ........... the music reached them because that is where my attention was.

I do the conventional things too: know the music inside-out, practice it thoroughly, rehearse how I will go up to the piano bench (I've only done two piano recitals since it's my 2nd instrument), adjust the bench, sit, bow afterward etc.

But ...... wait, I think this is the part that is important.  I do not picture myself in this.  It is something that I do, but I do not see myself in the eyes of the audience.  That makes the difference.

In fact, I tried to get away from self-observance a few years ago and maybe I succeeded.

[m19834]

But I found my stance totally on some occasion maybe two years ago where I had ignored the audience, ceased "communicating" and immersed myself totally in the playing.

My point is, this actually does imply a certain level of comfort with the situation, no matter what you call the experience (and no matter what you don't call it, for that matter).  To be capable of "ignoring" the audience comes at different expenses for everybody.  In a sense, ignoring the audience is the goal, and only after it is done and recognized, does it become a tool. 

[Bob]

How do you get there? 

Just say the heck with it for the audience and worrying about mistakes.

Make sure you can get into the mood of the piece.  If you haven't before the performance or don't know what it is, it's probably not going to happen during the performance.

Make sure you have prepared the piece and have the technique to do all that.  Or if you don't, just put everything together as best you can anyway.  It will never be perfect.

Communicate that to the audience.  Get the performer and the audience out of the way of the composer and the listener.

[keypeg]

I have performed a total of five times in my entire life.  I began music studies only a handful of years ago.  I am not yet a seasoned performer.

What I am asking about is the possibility of this one thing maybe leading somewhere in the question of stage fright:

1.  Not to ignore the audience, but to have a relationship with the music - and to do so deliberately as a decision.

2.  Not to consider yourself in the picture - and do this as a deliberate act.

What if these two devices can be helpful tools?

[keypeg]

Um ... ignoring is a negative, focusing on something that you don't want to do.  I've been taught that one should never try not to do something - but to do something.  So I choose to pay attention to the music.  And if I'm thrown, not to pay attention to being thrown, but the music again.  That really seems to help.

[m19834]

What if these two devices can be helpful tools?

What do you suppose the answer would be to that ?

Um ... ignoring is a negative (...)

Being at a place of psychological and physical comfort, where the audience is not something that gets into the performer's way of playing the music, is a positive.   

[slobone]

Um ... ignoring is a negative, focusing on something that you don't want to do.  I've been taught that one should never try not to do something - but to do something.  So I choose to pay attention to the music.  And if I'm thrown, not to pay attention to being thrown, but the music again.  That really seems to help.

I agree. Paying attention while playing music is a crucial skill, at every stage from learning to performance. But for most people, it's a skill that has to be developed.

I find I do best when I'm very specific about what I'm putting my attention on: "OK, coming up in the next measure is that awkward leap in the left hand... then the place where the right hand crosses the left supra... then a measure that's not too bad... then the place where I start the crescendo..." etc.

[keypeg]

Of course it's a positive for me, Karli.  Maybe my antntion has not come across.  What if I found something that might help someone else.  I hear amny verygood solutions found, but the particular thing that I found helped me I don't see often.  That is why I mentioned it.

There is something I'm not sure about at this point.  Usually we studnets will wish we could play fluently, be as instantly musical as the professionals we have heard our whole lives.  But teachers try to bring across that it's not that instaneous, it's not all aboutfeeling and insipriation - there are things like focus, intent, very specific deliberate actions and chocies.  Eventually (maybe) we catch on.  We're satisfied (hopefully) that eventulaly it will all fall into place.

We believe in the beginning that the professional musicians have some kind of magic.  They have talent.  And we have to have talent.  If we can't play smoothly and well then it means we don't have talent.  Either we have it or we don't.  We are the passive recipients of our talent or lack of it, and we passively receive how we can play.  Eventually we are to learn that what we do and choose to do has a lot to do with it - the little piddly stuff that isn't so piddly.  Specifics.

Ok, so I'm reading about comfort zones, and being fortunate.  It's about effects, feelings.  I feel like being back in the original position where we have it or we don't, itls talnet, feeling, something that happens to you.

But what iI was writing about were choices and deliberate things - specifics.
Namely:
- I choose to focus on the music an dcommunicate with the music instead of the audience.  This is not always n insipred communion.  Often it is nothing more than making certain that I play the first note followed by the second note which has a third ntoe.  But because I choose to do this, I cannot also think of the audience.  And if I am steadfastly thinking of the first, and second, and third note, thenI am also with my music.
- I premit myself to be intimately involved with my music and not politely pay attention to the audeince. This is something that I thought through and that I chose to do.

If I do have a comfort zone, it is something I worked toward.  BUT I did not work toward a comfort zone.  I did not create a goal of being comfortable in front of an audience.  I created a goal that said that I would pay attention to my music in a rather systematic and immediate manner - you could say almost mechanically, though what I played was not mechanica.  This was something that I thought through.

I think that you are saying that the comfort zone allows the device.  But I found the device also created the comfort zone - which I did not worry about.

This is another thing possibly.  If we think about being comfortable, our thought goes to our comfort, uncomfortableness, and already that distracts away from the very thing that would create the comfort - which is being involved with the music systematically and moment by moment.  Chicken or egg?

[m19834]

What if I found something that might help someone else.

The honest truth of the matter is that, if a person has indeed found something that might actually help others, it is life-altering to have even a single person care -- apparently that is how it works. 

[lostinidlewonder]

The closer you can listen to yourself play the more you will distract yourself from fear of making mistakes. If your focus is on listening to the sound you produce then you will not let your mind wander and start getting afraid of making mistakes and thinking what the other people will think about you if you do so.

Public performance is more a mental battle with yourself than anything else. I find rogue thoughts stray into my mind now and then while I play and it really disturbs my focus on listening to myself. I use to do multiplication tables in my head and all sorts of weird things which would distract my thoughts on the sound I was playing, it still does happen. That is why before performance preparation is very important where you center yourself, keeping your mind set.

I also must prove to myself I can perform something "perfectly" without chance in my own practice drills. You really cannot practice too much this is a wrong way to think I believe. I practice my ass off to ensure if I make a mistake anywhere I can recover from it. This requires a lot of experimentation, trails and errors. So long you are not mindlessly repeating the notes, you can never practice too much ever.

[keypeg]

find I do best when I'm very specific about what I'm putting my attention on: "OK, coming up in the next measure is that awkward leap in the left hand... then the place where the right hand crosses the left supra... then a measure that's not too bad... then the place where I start the crescendo..." etc

Yes, that's the kind of thing I was talking about.

What the audience is thinking, what mood they might be in, whether I will be able to move them, whether I will play well today - none of these thoughts will bring me anything..  But if I'm involved in that leap you wrote about I am too busy to have stage fright, or to think stage frightening thoughts.  If I think "I will pay attention to the music" that is too abstract.  But the things that I have rehearsed a thousand times, that's another matter.  That is relatively easy to find as a point of focus.

[keypeg]

Karli, I've been going back and forth in this thread.  Something doesn't seem right.  It begins with you offering advice, and ends with you telling me that nobody cares for solutoins - something has gone sour in the middle.

I see a fault in my part maybe.  I tend to go off on tangents when I read something without taking the time to acknowledge what the other person has written.  I have not discounted your advice, which you took the time to set forth - I just jumped on to whatever new ground my mind took me from there: not a good habit.  I think that what you wrote out could merit a kind of checklist or a beginning point to explore more thoroughly.

You wrote something at the end about looking back at the performance to see what was happening.  So I went and pondered that.  It was three years ago that I realized that the effort of communicating with the audience was actually an obstacle.  I thought I was supposed to do that but it seemed to decentre me and throw me.  I felt off balance somehow.   And just at that time I was playing or singing to myself because I was feeling bad, and a neighbour who heard me was comforted told me that she and her daughter felt comfort.  That was like a lightbulb moment.  I had tried to communicate with the audience and failed.  But when I did not try to do anything except reach out to the music for myself, that is when I reached people.  It made my world topsy turvy.  But this was my starting point.

[m19834]

(...) you telling me that nobody cares for solutoins - (...)

Yes, actually.  However, my comment was far more than you would think.  I have realized something interesting about teaching in general.

[keypeg]

Well, your comments do tend to have the properties of an iceberg - a tip floating at the top with the majority of the substance supporting but invisible.   

I cannot know what you have discovered, of course.  However, it is also true that you never know how far something you have taught may carry, and when it germinates.  It might be years from now, or it might be there, accepted deep inside, but not yet accepted in a place that will actuate it.  You never know.

[ilovemusik]

mine is different because it involves with my religion but it reallllllly works for me
if ever i play my piece to my friends, family, or to some random people, i just think i am not playing for them, i am not pleasing them but to please God or to whomever you may believe in. Also just be yourself, think positive, don't think what other people thinks. I always bare in mind that the music is important, not myself. So i should concentrate on the piece and play it beautifully to the audience because music is powerful. I want my audience to inspire, uplift, and feel the joy of the piece.

[kard]

I agree with most on this post in that I think its a question of focus...
I realized a few days ago that something was up with my playing. I had recently started obsessing over technique, conquering the unfamiliar piano etc. and i made a lot of progress in how I thought about using my hands, but something essential got lost :-/ whenever I tried to perform or even play through a piece, I just..well..failed lol..idk how to explain. Everything started to sound like a jumble of sound as I reached the middle of any piece. Practice became annoying.

I thought back on 'the old days'  when it was just a hobby lol...and it really was a personal thing. I loved how sound/rhythm moved me...or created the illusion of movement. I never thought exclusively about technique etc. or the audience for that matter. I learned by mimicking the movement of what I heard and that was that. So I tried to tap into that and guess what lol, it worked.

Sound  creates movement. Think about it. Think about how you sing. Start on a note then go up an octave. Can't you feel that? 
I'm trying to make that my new focus now. Hopefully it works out in the long run.