Something must be wrong

[tsagari]

I have some thoughts that I wanted to share with you music students and teahcers as well, but because I am not a music teacher I did not post this subject to the teachers corner.
The reason I am posting this is that altough I am a piano student my self, I am also a mother who sees her kinds to be the victims of music teaching tradition that kills childrens natural love for music.
Reading through many posts in this forum many of you teachers or students aknowledge that there is something wrong in the way that we are taughted how to play a musical instrument. Every body speak from their own experience and have their own belief and ideas.
I just make some observetions which I have to share.
1. I  was always wandering why every average person if sets him self in learning who to type, and   formally instructed for a small period of time he/she can be an efficient type writer whereas  someone who is learning how to play an instrument can not. In both tasks eye and hand cordination is envolved. I think the answer to this is that the one who leanrns the instrument  is as if he is tring to learn to type  a language that he does not at all. Sympolls are complete alient and new to him so coordination is extremely diffiucult. That is to say if I put a four years old child infront of a piano is ecxactly the same situation as if I demand my four year old child to learn how to type before she can even learn the alphabet and lean to read and write, can she?. What I want to say with this is that It might be a mistake not to educate the children first in the language before we put them infront of any instrument. That is learn how to sing read and write music first.
2. My second observation comes from personal experience as a child I learn to play quitar in the following way. At the age of 12 my teacher at elementary school who loved music he wanted every student in his class to play an instrument so he could bulit a music group and have us play all together on different school occassion. I choose guitar, what he did is to explain how to play the basic 8 notes on the instrument  and chords, no score no nothing just practice on the instrument. Score was involved only in the singing process so we learn the basic function of the music keys throught singing.  This lasted for a year I was happy that I was able to play the instrument with little efford. When I year after I went to a music studio to take formal guitar lessons what happened is that my progress was extremely fast because there was no cordination problems. I knew where C was and I was confident in finding the notes on the instrument where as all the new coming students were struggling to find and press C on the guitar and at tje some time identify notes on the score. So I think is important to familarize the learner with the instrument before he is involved in music reading process.
These are my observations, they might be rabish but if you think that can offer something I would like to discuss how things can change in learning an instrument.

[keypeg]

I wonder about this myself when I read about the many travails people seem to go through.  I am especially mystified reading continually of how "hard" it is to read music, to play an instrument, and this comes from teachers!

I have thought for many years that I was deprived in my musical education because everyone else had lessons and was taught to read, etc. and I wasn't.  But I am beginning to think that my background was an advantage.

I learned the scale as movable do syllables, and I became familiar with that scale.  Then I also explored instruments - anything I could get my hands on.  There was no right or wrong.  I simply explored the sounds they would produce, immersed myself in those sounds, played around with them, and I also tried out this scale that I knew, the melodies.  The result is that I play any melody on any instrument.  It comes to the point that I am playing some half forgotten thing, a little sonata or a song, say on the recorder or guitar and I'm wondering "Where does this belong?  What instrument does it fit with?"  Eventually I'll discover (when I run out of notes) that the melody I'm playing on the recorder is a piano piece or violin piece, or that what I'm trying to play on the piano actually belongs to the recorder or guitar.

My children explored pure sound.  They would return from an event and duplicate what they heard as preschoolers.  The Japanese drummers were duplicated with pots and pans, wooden spoons and forks to create different textures.  The piano, when we visited, was explored as pure sound, a musical story emerging from the hands of a three year old, and I tell you that this music was pleasant and haunting.  When that child learned to play in later years there was no difficulty or turmoil.  Was it because he was gifted, or because no artificial structure got in the way, or a bit of both?

[m19834]

Well, there are a number of aspects here.  Firstly, it's not difficult to read music !  I don't view it as such, and I have never had a student pass through my studio who could not read music.  However, there is a difference between fluency at something and simply having the ability to do it if one really "had" to.

What I consider to be the basic problem at the time is a lack of musical immersion.  There are many reasons for this, too, and it's not just "the educators" problem.  Consider our language and how we speak, a baby is completely immersed in the sounds and meanings for over a year before s/he begins to become capable of actually using these sounds in a precise way.  Music does not play enough of a role in the home, and I don't mean that there are not enough parents playing instruments (though that's a point, too), but there are not enough house-holds that even have music on !  And, often, when music *is* on, it is not necessarily the kind of music that is going to breed anything more than whatever seems to be the popular trend at the time.

People need the sounds of music to be within them and close at hand.  Music should be  something that knocks at the door for them, a seeming need to communicate through it, a need that makes a person want to learn how to articulate these sounds that are within them, similarly to how a baby/child finally begins to speak. 

How can we dedicate more time to listening ?  This is a good questions for households to ponder.

In the meantime, along the lines of immersion, lack of "practice" is also a problem.  However, I don't see this as the fault of anybody in particular, but more the fault of the common structure of lessons.  Imagine learning a new language with little or no exposure at most times during the week except for half an hour !  Imagine trying to teach your child how to read and write and become fluent in their native tongue, how to communicate everything you need to communicate to them, in a single half-hour session per week ... oh, wait !  Did I actually just describe the average "family time" ?  Okay, I know it's an exaggeration, but there's an issue there.

In my opinion, if parents are concerned, that is good !  But, don't be surprised to learn that you may play a much bigger role than you currently think, and don't be surprised to learn that the finger cannot be pointed in one particular place !  We are not just talking about how music is taught in private lessons, and we are not just talking about how big music plays a role in each household.  We are talking about entire communities, human ethics, values, government.  It is not hopeless though . 

[keypeg]

Is it a case of listening, or is it a case of indiscriminate Muzak pollution everywhere?  Music is used as a kind of white noise and nerve-calmer background thingy,  One learns to tune it out and then there is a learned deafness.

It is considered normal to walk down the street with ear buds plugged in, possibly dancing and rocking to the beat, and normal to be gesturing to an invisible person because one is wearing headphones and talking to someone over the phone.  But it is not normal to walk down the street humming to yourself or to want to be making music: only to be a passive audience of music meant to be ignored at some level.

The "other side" actually seems to be listening differently.  The music that annoys me the most is what they want in the stores, and cashiers will say they are "bored" when there is interesting classical music. As soon as something comes on with a predictable rhythm, predictable melody of perhaps 4 notes (I have sometimes counted them!), predictable lyrics that repeat themselves over and over, they are happy!  They can sing along with it, they can be swayed by the predictability, it is a soothing thing.  I feel like I'm from another planet.  That stuff bores me to tears, but for them it is the bee's knees.

There is no time that I am not listening.  I'm in a grocery store, something interesting happens to the music and I express delight and the person says "Oh, I don't even listen" .... but has to have it on, of course.

I was at the dentist's and a "light" radio station was playing.  The hygienist sometimes hummed along.  It was a torture!  It's like listening to somebody babble and never say anything for an hour.  Every song had the same range of about 4 or 5 notes maximum, the same melodic pattern, the same rhythm, often in the same two or three keys.  Finally ... ah ... a modulation to a minor key.  I sighed with relief.  The hygienist wondered what was wrong.  It was one of her favourite songs.  I pointed out the modulation from minor to major keys.  I called them blue and red colours, and she could hear the blue and red colours (modulations).  She had actualy heard them, and wondered why this particular song was more moving than the others. Because it had at least a modicum of substance to it.  It actually covered an entire octave, had an ABA structure, changed moods, and the singer seemed to know how to sing.

[m19834]

Oh yes, good point, Keypeg.  I shouldn't have even bothered posting my rubbish thoughts.

And, often, when music *is* on, it is not necessarily the kind of music that is going to breed anything more than whatever seems to be the popular trend at the time.

[Bob]

Are there any products we can buy?  I feel like a sale pitch is about it happen.  I have all this money and don't know what to do with it all.  It's getting tiresome to burn it all the time.  At least that's what the people I hired to burn it tell me.

[keypeg]

There is absolutely nothing rubbish about them!  I just expanded on one aspect.  Not only are the kids not hearing music, but it might be the "tuning out" kind.

However, a dear friend of mine used to run the music section of Robinsons when there was a Robinsons.  He was an elderly gentleman, very wise.  He told me that the kids were coming in - the kids on the street - asking for Gregorian chant for their walkmans.

There was also something about the "popular formula" of movies, but somebody somewhere created an old fashioned, thoughtful, non action-violence movie which I think was accidentaly aired, and the kids flocked to it in great numbers.  The kids are being stereotyped and trivialized.  A lot of them are actually deep thinkers if you take the time to get to know them.

The thing about the Gregorian chant knocked my socks off.  Imagine your stereotypical teen down the street, ear buds in ear, imagining that this is what he is listening to.

[keypeg]

We are not just talking about how music is taught in private lessons, and we are not just talking about how big music plays a role in each household.  We are talking about entire communities, human ethics, values, government.

This is something that should be considered seriously.  Musicrebel4U talks about how a select number of students were taught very thoroughly and well in her country, but the rest had basically no musical education.  At least that select few were taught, and it was not based on family income which is the case here.  But obviously that is not attractive either.

Over here we've had to fight every year for the past 8 or so years to keep our arts magnet school open.  The move is ostensibly toward "equality" but it is more like homogenization to the lower level.  Our school system was "reformed", an entire grade dropped out (imagine the savings), schools were closed, teachers laid off, the number of subjects that any school was allowed to offer was cut down.

The arts magnet school was affected by this, too.  Founded in the 1970's or early 1980's by teachers who were also trained in their art (drama, visual, music), it is open to any student within a 100 mile radius roughly, who passes the audition or portfolio.  Parents and child must commit to going the extra mile, which means support for rehearsals and extra curricular activity which is mandatory, participation, preparation etc. for the student.  Those students who decide after one or two years that it is not for them can continue in the school - not everyone will go all the way through the program. The school seems to have to weather one threat or another each year since the "reforms".  Students, teachers, and parents as well as alumni rally each time.

The thing is that here is the antithesis ot the common scenario you are painting, Karli.  You have kids who are highly motivated, often felt like outcasts in their neighbourhoods because they liked to practice music, learn things, read good books, think, above all were creative.  You have parents who are supportive and involved, and they come from all income and social levels.  You have teachers who find it a pleasure and privilege to teach in this school.  Private music teachers are pulled into it because they prepare the students for the etude and oral exams as well as technical difficulties that might come up.  Kids ask to do more than they are asked to do.  Each section supports the other: the dancers cheer on the winds who cheer on the drama.  Well balanced self assured individuals leave the program.  You can recognize them on the street, i.e. I have.

Yet the school has to fight for its existence.  The kids weren't even allowed to work as long as they wanted to and had to play with the permissible timetable in order to get the rehearsing and practicing and whatnot in that they wanted to get in.  The structure of society is not conducive to this school.  I see it as an island, a beacon of light in a dark place.  One boy, an excellent musician, decided not to go to this school opting for the regular one which is in my area.  He did not walk the right walk, talk the right talk, fit in with the gang mentality.  So in his second week of school they pinned him down, smeared him with ketchup for daring to wear what he was wearing.  Since he had won the audition, he transfered to a place where he was allowed to be himself.

That's the thing.  The kids are barely allowed to be interested and involved, it seems.  In the local neighbourhoods they often have to fit in.

[danny elfboy]

I have some thoughts that I wanted to share with you music students and teahcers as well, but because I am not a music teacher I did not post this subject to the teachers corner. The reason I am posting this is that altough I am a piano student my self, I am also a mother who sees her kinds to be the victims of music teaching tradition that kills childrens natural love for music.

Every little thing about the way music is taught is completely utterly wrong and hopeless. The army like heavily intellectual and in a vacuum way to teach piano for example is the most screwed up thing one can conceive.

The problem is that music buy its nature suggests its way to be taught and that the way it is taught is completely unmusical and opposed to everything music suggests to us.

I have written hundreds of posts of how many technical problems keep being problems because they're dealt in an unmusical way because the teacher focus immaturely and anal-retentively in technique first and music later AND how the key to the technical solution lies in the musicality itself. You take a pupil which is struggling with speed, accuracy, fingers slipping and never perfecting a piece and you switch the paradigm from technique to music focusing a lot on interpretation, volume, meaning, pauses. Within few weeks the playing of the pupil is transformed and most of the technical problems have been solved on their own. In the process you also make the student willing to practice because practicing because musical and completely connected to the whole musical work who he/she is doing in becoming a musician.

But it's also embarassing how the most important elements of music are also the most underestimated. Perfection is not important at all but a steady rhythm is. Rhythm comes first and it's not just the foundation of music but the foundation of life itself! You must put a rhythm in your body and become your own metronome. Discipline is not to be cultivated, creativity is. The context of music, of the instrument and the creation of sounds should never taught as in a vacuum information without any link to what the student is actually doing. Emotional repression should not be cultivated and dishinibition and freedom of movement actually should emphasized. The same grace of movement of skater or dancer should be one of the most important focus of pianism and piano education. The piano student should feel at home at the keyboard and should study in a way and environment that nurtures his/her physical, mental and musical flexibility.

Instead it is the absolutely opposite. Many piano students becomes unflexible, rigid, inhibited, emotionally repressed and musically cold and uncreative in the process of learning piano in the orthodox way.

[keypeg]

Very true.

But I would like to suggest that not teaching, and only allowing a student to "have fun" is equally debilitating.  That is the experience often given to adult students.

If you are the same person with a similar name on another forum, then I have read some advice that you have given to students and/or teachers of students.  In fact, some of those things are in a personal file for reference.  You (if that is you) teach in a precise manner, emphasizing important pertinent things involving posture, the balance of the body, the balances within finger and elbow (this is badly worded) and when a student has such tools, the student gets control, and with control there is freedom.

If we are not taught those things ....... or perhaps if a teacher is not knowledgeable and informed and cannot teach them, then a student struggles against her own body and the pleasure is destroyed, especially if it is an aware musical type of student. 

I got the opposite of you, like enforced blindness.  Or like being in a library of books with blank pages when you want to read and you are capable of reading.  I thought for a while that I wanted the military disciplinarian way, but that one was also flawed.

In any case, we must be given the tools, and maybe we must be trusted being capable of learning those tools.

[danny elfboy]

Very true.

But I would like to suggest that not teaching, and only allowing a student to "have fun" is equally debilitating.  That is the experience often given to adult students.

The treatment of adult students (i.e. not taking them seriously and convincing them to play just easy renditions of pieces and such) is just the same exact treatment of young pupils in disguise. What it means is that the unmusical army like training of future pianists and the insulting condescending attitude towards adult students are both born from the same screwed mindset, they're creatures of the same unmusical paradigm.

[keypeg]

The treatment of adult students (i.e. not taking them seriously and convincing them to play just easy renditions of pieces and such) is just the same exact treatment of young pupils in disguise. What it means is that the unmusical army like training of future pianists and the insulting condescending attitude towards adult students are both born from the same screwed mindset, they're creatures of the same unmusical paradigm.

It involves stereotyping among other things.

[danny elfboy]

If you are the same person with a similar name on another forum, then I have read some advice that you have given to students ...

Are you my dear keystring? 

[keypeg]

Are you my dear keystring? 

But of course!     I've got a bit of a rant going on PW in "method book for adult learners" which I'm afraid I seem to have hijacked.
It's nice to see you here. 

[Bob]

There some PW refugees who came here a few years ago.  I wonder what ever happened to them.  A whole group of people suddenly appeared on the site one day.

[keypeg]

I only joined PW in December and found this group around February. There are probably a lot of people hopping back and forth.

[omei]

Regarding tsagari's concern that, the kids' interested in piano lesson can be easily killed if they are not taught properly, I think this is sad, but true.

In my opinion, the most important is to have the kids experience the joy of music before they start any formal learning, such as note reading, finger exercise...etc. It is no use to plant the seed if the soil is not fertilized. On the other hand, once the soil is well-prepared, whatever you plant will grow.