Have you ever had a teacher like this?

[bipabew]

Hello, this is my first post here.  I've been reading these forums for awhile now but I finally had a question I wanted to ask. 

I am taking weekly lessons at a junior college as I am a music major.  My teacher just recently had me play Bach's C# Major Prelude from the WTC 1 and I am now working on the fugue. 

I am having a hard time with this teacher because she does not want me to think about technique at all, just musicality, which she doesn't explain all that well.  I have always thought about my technique and my musical goals in an analytical manner, that is I investigate when I have problems or want to improve something.  However every time I tell her that some technical insight like keeping shoulders loose or forearm rotation has improved my playing, she tells me that I need to stop thinking about technique and more about the music.  Yet she's having me do Hanon.  If I say somethings hurting when I play all she does is tells me that I shouldn't be feeling pain.  Well duh!  But she won't give me advice.  She herself is actually not a pianist, she's a French horn player.

I have also read Gyorgy Sandor's "On Piano Playing" , which when I showed her the book she said was a waste of time. 

What I really can't stand is that she says I'm not very advanced in my musical thinking and that I play like a robot.  Yet she offers no advice whatsoever when I ask except to tell me to play musically.  But this funny thing is, at recitals I'm always getting compliments about how musical my playing is, and how smooth my technique is.  Yet she says it sounds boring when I play.  I'm even getting compliments from other faculty members. 

She and I have very different musical tastes.  She like mainly early Baroque.  I like composers like Liszt, Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Rachmaninoff, but I also like progressive rock like ELP and stuff by people like Jordan Rudess as well.  She really could care less about what I listen to.  In fact when I played her some videos of Rudess she was very condescending about it.  She said he reminded her of an idiot savant who could only do one thing.

We were discussing left hand articulation during my recent lesson and I said that because the lower registers are a bit heaver it is harder to move the keys as quickly.  She told me that all the keys have the same touchweight and that my left hand is weak.  I'm left handed.  I didn't buy her explanation at all. 

This person is unable to show me anything at the piano since she cannot play. 

I'm at my wit's end with her and I feel like I don't learn a thing with her.

Sorry this post is so long but I wanted to share my experience and know how many of you have had teachers like this.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[gerry]

A french horn player giving piano lessons? What kind of a JC is this? How do they justify this? Who teaches voice, the basketball coach or perhaps the accounting professor? Sounds screwy to me. What's your goal, to move on to a full university? If there is a pianist on this faculty, I'd advise lobbying for a change as soon as possible. At the very least, discuss this with your advisor (if you have one) and try to find out the logic behind assigning you this way.

[thalberg]

It absolutely, certainly, without a doubt sounds like these lessons are unsuccessful.  You are not happy with her and you are not learning from her. 

I have had teachers similar to what you are saying.  They are critical without helping, and they don't have much to say, and they turn everything back around so it's your fault.

In the end, they just don't know what they're doing.  Teaching piano is very, very hard even if you're a good player.  There are a LOT of piano teachers out there who are really fumbling.

I stuck with one teacher who taught me nothing for more years than I care to admit.  It is a WASTE.

You are clearly not happy.  Do NOT resign yourself to stick with this.  You can do better. Find someone else.

[bipabew]

Thanks for the replies so far.   There are two other faculty members who play piano as well as work with synthesizers and recording.  I'll start asking them for help on these matters more.  They have been helpful in the past.  I am planning on moving to a four year university after one more semester here. 

Thanks again.

[daejiny]

My first reaction upon reading the sentences about musicality over technique made me agree with the teacher. But of course, I had to read on, then it seemed pretty obvious that the teacher was actually clueless about many of the things she seemed to be doing. Hanon  doesn't have any sense of musicality. So yes, I'd have to agree with the others on this matter, that you should switch teachers.

Yet don't let that ruin your experience with musicality. The current trend is to be a flashy technician (which I fall prey to as well), but nobody should lose sight of the music for the notes.

[richy321]

I really feel for you.  Your teacher is stressing musicality because that's the only thing she knows, if that.  She obviously was never trained in piano pedagogy or technique.  I had a similar experience when I was in high school.  My piano teacher was actually a singer, not a pianist.  It was so discouraging, I dropped piano playing for the next 50 years and only recently (after I retired) found a very good teacher.

In junior college you have to take what you get, so unless you transfer to at least a state college, you may be out of luck.  Your best bet might be to seek out a private teacher.  From your post you seem to have a good sense of what you want in a teacher, so choose carefully.  Good luck.

[gerry]

I really feel for you.  Your teacher is stressing musicality because that's the only thing she knows, if that.  She obviously was never trained in piano pedagogy or technique.  I had a similar experience when I was in high school.  My piano teacher was actually a singer, not a pianist.  It was so discouraging, I dropped piano playing for the next 50 years and only recently (after I retired) found a very good teacher.

The irony in your posting is that, in my experience, it's the singer who needs--and many times look for--coaching and direction from the accompanist.

[hyrst]

Perhaps your teacher is wanting you to focus on the sound image you want / need to project, rather than the movements that facilitate this - placing listening over tuning into the mechanics which can be affected by such fine changes in movement that it is exhausting to concentrate on that alone.  However, muscality cannot be projected without some attention to technnique and some initially conscious adjustment to touch. 

I think you are both partly right in everything you have said.  The problem is, the teacher is frustrating you rather than helping you - criticising blankly rather than helping you explore.  This teacher does not seem to be communicating very well - which means that if they do know what they are talking about they are not doing a good job of helping you undertstand and they are not realising they are demoralising you rather than teaching you.   They are not helping you.

But, you only have one semester left in this situation.  If you can't find a more supportive teacher and can't change, just remember that it is short term and poeple hear different things.  Obviously you don't want to believe all the negative things that are said - but you could experiment with some of the suggestions and see if there is anything useful there.  Don't take on pointless arguments of 'buts'.  Take what you can, try things out, if it doesn't work maybe the teacher is worng or maybe you haven't quite understood.  You haven't lost anything by trying.

Hanon can be played musically, even though it is repetitive - I know there are two camps on this one.  But, I really don't like Hanon and still have to admit that these repetitive exercises require phrasing, texture and other dynamics.  If they are hurting, you are playing them incorrectly and too fast.  Perhaps your wrists are too low so they are tense.  Suspend your fingers from your hands and make sure you are using your wrists to move over the keys rather than pulling yourself along by sitting too deeply into the keys.  If it hurts, find a relaxed position, slow down and focus on the easiest possible movments that give the greatest note clarity and rhythmic definement.

[slobone]

Hanon can be played musically, even though it is repetitive - I know there are two camps on this one.  But, I really don't like Hanon and still have to admit that these repetitive exercises require phrasing, texture and other dynamics.  If they are hurting, you are playing them incorrectly and too fast.  Perhaps your wrists are too low so they are tense.  Suspend your fingers from your hands and make sure you are using your wrists to move over the keys rather than pulling yourself along by sitting too deeply into the keys.  If it hurts, find a relaxed position, slow down and focus on the easiest possible movments that give the greatest note clarity and rhythmic definement.

Hanon can be made a bit more interesting by varying which notes you accent. Try accenting the second beat of each group of four instead of the first. Or try doing it in triplets (you'll have to adjust the metronome). But yeah, it's never going to sound like actual music...

[bipabew]

Sorry I haven't been on in a few days. 

I spoke with another of the music teachers at the school who actually is a pianist as well an organist.  He was actually present at my performance of the prelude and he said he liked it.  He told me that there was nothing musically wrong with my performance.  He said that it had to do with my teacher not liking the way I play Bach, that it was a personal preference.  My teacher wishes to hear Bach in a more romantic manner, lots of dynamic variation, accelerandos, ritards, and so on.  I play it more in what I think of as a traditional Baroque manner.  Besides, it was written for the harpsichord.  A very delicate sounding instrument.  To me that prelude is much more about the structure and counterpoint of the piece than emotional expression.

Anyway, I think my question has been answered about musicality.  I guess I just have a sound that my teacher doesn't like.  Oh well.  If anything, I guess this shows that I have definite ideas about how I would like my playing to sound. 

Thanks for the advice.

[nia_kurniati]

I take piano course in private, so piano is not my major. But my teacher she's great both technically and musically, she's very detail u know, especially about the song sentence/pharse. And she gave me every time, song for technic, scales-arpeggio, and free song. And I think we cant play well if we dont improve our technic.
Thats my private teacher. I think if in music school it must be harder than that.