Do you think it's possible to successfully decide to stop learning ?

[m19834]

You reach a point and say, okay, I don't need to know any more to be happy.  You know there is more "out there" but you think you could maintain a happy life just living the rest of it out.

I guess I wonder if there are some lessons that we can't help but learn, as if we just have no actual choice about progressing, no matter what we think we are choosing to do.

[keypeg]

Impossible.  Sometimes I think I'm totally porous and of an unknown chemical property.  It filters in, fizzes with the internal substance, takes form, and nestles in.

[quantum]

An interesting question as I am faced with dealing with such persons who think the have reached their limit.  There are some elderly people in a choir I accompany that have convinced themselves they are too old to successfully learn new material.  The stuff they have been singing for the past 20 years is good enough.  Even if it means endless weekly repetitions because they know a handful of hymns appropriate for the church season. 

[Bob]

No.

But I do think it's possible you can get stuck in a squeezed situation where difficulties outweigh the ability to make progress.

[indutrial]

You reach a point and say, okay, I don't need to know any more to be happy.  You know there is more "out there" but you think you could maintain a happy life just living the rest of it out.

I guess I wonder if there are some lessons that we can't help but learn, as if we just have no actual choice about progressing, no matter what we think we are choosing to do.

Choosing to stop learning is probably why some people on this forum are annoying as all hell. When one decides that plateauing is just dandy, then it all just becomes annoying issues of pride and tunnel-vision.

[general disarray]

First of all, knowledge (i.e. information) does not in itself confer "happiness."  Happiness, in all cases, arises unbidden and is the outcome of behavior.

A total ignoramus has the capacity to experience as much happiness as a scholar.  Right action, as the Buddha said, will yield happiness if it is meant to arise.

[indutrial]

First of all, knowledge (i.e. information) does not in itself confer "happiness."  Happiness, in all cases, arises unbidden and is the outcome of behavior.

A total ignoramus has the capacity to experience as much happiness as a scholar.  Right action, as the Buddha said, will yield happiness if it is meant to arise.

Without getting philosophical about the issue, I simply think that musicians/artists/writers who decide to continue learning (as opposed to just "jobbing" it) are always more interesting and compelling to be around then people who have given up on continuing their development (i.e. learning either new things, rethinking old things, questioning habits and tendencies, etc...). The latter types are almost always washed-up curmudgeons who you end up feeling bad for. I've worked alongside tons of music teachers who have that thing going on, and they all just plain suck. Most of them don't even enjoy music anymore and it's just a grind that makes them turn to alcohol, overeating, TV and excessively indulgent bitching-and-moaning to those around them. To Hades with them, I say

[Bob]

I don't see how you can really stop.  Unless you're not doing anything at all.  There's just a natural tendency to improve the way you do things, to make things easier, etc.

It's not the same as diving full in though and studying full time.  I think it's possible to majorly slow down learning.

[indutrial]

I don't see how you can really stop.  Unless you're not doing anything at all.  There's just a natural tendency to improve the way you do things, to make things easier, etc.

If you want to see the end of learning in a general sort of way, just take a stroll through a shopping mall or a Walmart. Amongst musicians, painters, and others who thoroughly appreciate the arts, it kind of defeats the idea of being an artist at all to make a cut-off at some point and decide "well, that's as cultured and talented as I'm going to get." Unfortunately, some figures in the artistic establishment do this kind of stuff and then rely on either smoke and mirrors or consumerist hype, etc., or any number of other base methods to keep their "art" in everyone's face. If artists who stopped learning and developing were flushed out of the music scene every once in a while, we might have never needed to suffer 100+ Philip Glass CDs in the past two decades.

[Bob]

I was thinking in terms of the individual, but even if society dumbed down, I think people would still be curious about things.

[keypeg]

You can go to Walmart or any other stereotypical establishment and get the idea of social dunderheadism.  If you take the time to draw ordinary people out, usually by making the first move by revealing your own interests, you will be amazed at how rich human personalities are.  My recent collection:
- The salesman at Walmart who made his own furniture and was a master craftsman
- The overweight older guy who stocks shelves at the grocery store: launched into a treatise on the historical roots of the French language, and the ancient peoples of Great Britain. Then he showed me where the pickles were.
- The other guy at the grocery store.  He is a gourmet cook and has considered making it a career.  Told the ins and outs launching it as a career, culinary schools, lifestyle.
- Grocery store again: guitarist, composer, composes as he stocks the shelves, always has something new to tell.
- A gathering of five strangers between tomatoes and parsely at the greengrocer's, exchanging phone numbers because each stopped in their tracks when classical music piped in.  Among us there was a harpist, singer, pianist, tenor recorder player, violinist, pianist.

Commercialism creates images.  People are real. Dare to scratch the surface.

[ted]

Even if I did not consider learning to be a meritorious process, I am too curious a personality to stop. Questions keep occurring to me and I seek their answers; that is just the way I have always been. Yes, for some individuals, ceasing to learn may be a practical option. I do not think it could ever be so for me.

[thierry13]

It's possible to stop learning. It gives people who appreciate rap and thinks it takes musicality and artistry to mix it.

[indutrial]

You can go to Walmart or any other stereotypical establishment and get the idea of social dunderheadism.  If you take the time to draw ordinary people out, usually by making the first move by revealing your own interests, you will be amazed at how rich human personalities are.  My recent collection:
- The salesman at Walmart who made his own furniture and was a master craftsman
- The overweight older guy who stocks shelves at the grocery store: launched into a treatise on the historical roots of the French language, and the ancient peoples of Great Britain. Then he showed me where the pickles were.
- The other guy at the grocery store.  He is a gourmet cook and has considered making it a career.  Told the ins and outs launching it as a career, culinary schools, lifestyle.
- Grocery store again: guitarist, composer, composes as he stocks the shelves, always has something new to tell.
- A gathering of five strangers between tomatoes and parsely at the greengrocer's, exchanging phone numbers because each stopped in their tracks when classical music piped in.  Among us there was a harpist, singer, pianist, tenor recorder player, violinist, pianist.

Commercialism creates images.  People are real. Dare to scratch the surface.

Let me know when the next bus to that Utopia leaves. I agree that people can potentially surprise you when one "dares to scratch the surface" but I'm certain that at least 60% are not as cultured and interesting as the standouts you've mentioned. Particularly the ones who are toting around 2-3 spoiled, screaming children and the old ladies who will argue with the underpaid clerks about the price of every item they have. Besides, most people aren't really willing to start up conversation with strangers in my area, even though they'll spend the whole time they've shopping texting and calling every person they know about, well, everything.

I live in an area where there's a lot of juxtaposition, since on the one hand, the Princeton area still has a lot of independent shops and food markets and on the other hand, every area outside of that circle is the same old Walmart/Bestbuy/Target/RedLobster bullshittery.

[indutrial]

It's possible to stop learning. It gives people who appreciate rap and thinks it takes musicality and artistry to mix it.

And here.... it..... goes..... again...... While we're on the topic of learning, you could really stand to start learning how to stop pointing your finger at everything as if you're an intellectual authority figure amongst inferior musicians. I know English isn't your best language, but you might want to brush up on it some more before you continue flaming out of your ass about other genre except classical. Maybe then you could actually complete one of your craptastic thoughts before hitting the post button.

[keypeg]

Utopia is a theoretical and intellectual idea.  Generalizations are also intellectual and theoretical pursuits.  I have mentioned real people in rather mundane surroundings.  I do not live in  a posh area and at first glance you would not think much about the people that I ran into who are mentioned in this post.  I am no starry eyed young idealist.  I have lived a full life, and have seen and experienced things that you would not want to see, both in my life and in my work. There is a lot of nonsense out there. So what are you going to do about it?  Be miserable?  Small acts can make a difference, and that is all we can do - small acts.

People don't go out of their way to talk to each other where I am, either.  You have to make the first move.  These people you described - the stereotypical ones - have you gotten to know any of them?  Did you talk to them?  Did you try to draw them out and find out what they are about?  I will tell you that at first glance I was not impressed by some of the people I ended up chatting with.  I expected much less. 

We are caught in these media images, these homogenizations, and talk to each other that way.  When you break the mould people come out of their torpor.  They leave the stereotypical things behind.  I find it refreshing to see that there is more to people than might just seem to be there at the surface.

I'm old enough to afford being eccentric.  I refuse to be part of the status quo and be choreographed along these narrow lines.  Why should any of us?  Have you ever sat on the cold pavement with a busker chatting about his life, played his instrument, watched well dressed business people walk past you from a ground view - dared to?

[thierry13]

And here.... it..... goes..... again...... While we're on the topic of learning, you could really stand to start learning how to stop pointing your finger at everything as if you're an intellectual authority figure amongst inferior musicians. I know English isn't your best language, but you might want to brush up on it some more before you continue flaming out of your ass about other genre except classical. Maybe then you could actually complete one of your craptastic thoughts before hitting the post button.

Haha, any classical musician is an intellectual authority figure amongst inferior musicians (most other, popular genres).

[indutrial]

Haha, any classical musician is an intellectual authority figure amongst inferior musicians (most other, popular genres).

Grow up...seriously.

[thierry13]

Grow up...seriously.

You grow up. Not everybody is equal, that's the reality, and classical is by far superior to any kind of other music on every aspect, except popularity. Why? Because it's superior and dumb people can't appreciate it. You have to be a notch over the norm to understand classical music, and another notch over that to be good at it.

[ctrastevere]

You have to be a notch over the norm to understand classical music, and another notch over that to be good at it.

I still fail to see how this only applies to classical music and not to, say, a genre like progressive metal.

[thierry13]

I still fail to see how this only applies to classical music and not to, say, a genre like progressive metal.

This genre is a notch up popular music and most jazz I have to say. But you should maybe study classical a bit more before saying it's not a notch higher than metal.

[indutrial]

I still fail to see how this only applies to classical music and not to, say, a genre like progressive metal.

It applies to any and every genre. These days, it's pretty obvious that almost any of the genres can produce works of genius and that sometimes the works of genius simply defy genrefication. This guy's just a vindictive little insect who has to feel like he's on the most intellectual lilypad of them all, a farce which is easily betrayed by how immature his posts are. I'm pretty sure if you asked a whole bunch of legitimate classical composers and musicians what their stance was on things like jazz and rap, they would probably adopt a fairly aloof attitude, even if they didn't like those things....certainly NOT the pompous and overly judgmental swagger that this clown keeps in everyone's face.