How important do you think it is to *know* your instrument?

[cdw]

Hi, my name's Charlotte, I'm new here. I am doing my final thesis at the conservatory about how important it is for a pianist to know his or her instrument inside out. How the mechanics work, the pedals, etc.. A friend of mine told me I should post here to get more opinions about this topic, as I need as much input as possible .

So what do you all think what is important about your instrument that influences your performance the most? This can range from name (how you think you play better on a Steinway than on a Yamaha, f.i.), price, mechanics, piano history, types of material the keys are made out of, heaviness of touch (everything about touch in general), and anything else you can think of.

This could also be a nice discussion I believe, any reply is very much appreciated!

- Charlotte

[slobone]

I'm not going to be much help, but in my opinion, anybody who wants to have a professional career needs to learn how to deal with any kind of piano he/she is presented with. It wouldn't hurt to know how to do a little basic tuning/repairs either.

Later when you're world-famous you can become a "Steinway artist" and get a kickback from them by insisting on only playing Steinways. Or when you get to be Horowitz, you can have your own piano shipped everywhere you go. (Actually, we had a local guy show up for a concert with his own piano. He preferred Baldwin grands, and he knew they're in short supply, so he brought it with him.)

[Bob]

Imporant in that you need to know what happens when you hit the keys and use the pedal.  How it's tuned, etc. 

I would say very important.

[lostinidlewonder]

When you sit at a particular piano for the first time you usually have to calibrate your physical effort required to play it. If you play top quality pianos usually the changes you have to make to your playing is very subtle.

One small example for instance, I find that the bass in Yamaha grands are comparatively loud to other grands, so I find I do not need to use so much effort to bring the bass out. Then you have Kawai grands which have some kind of soft touch action (I don't know what it is called technically), but basically you can depress a key slightly and feel it go down slightly then have a little give again as if you where pressing the key down again but more yield to the fingers, this which gives different control to your softer touches. If you play a cheap suffering piano you usually have to change a great deal more to get what you want out of it.

How can you be sure that when you sit at a piano you are playing it at its optimal level? I think it has to do a lot with how much music you actually know and how many times you have experienced your music on different keyboards. You must have practical experience testing various technique and musical characteristics of piano playing on many different pianos. What is even more important is that you learn to feel what happens to the efficiency of you fingers on different keyboards. How easy is it for you to produce your desired sound?

As musicians we can calibrate the pros and cons of a piano with a few minutes of playing. We always first notice the effort required to push the key down to cause the hammer to strike the strings. On lesser pianos you first always notice some kind of energy loss in the transfer between your fingers and the hammer to the strings. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the action but simply poor strings which require more brute force to produce louder sounds out of. Sometimes is worn hammers which strike the strings too hard so our overall playing must be softer as not to produce harsh sounds. But if we are speaking of a high quality instrument usually these factors do not come into large consideration.

On high quality pianos we have to play a lot of our music on it to calibrate how easy it is for  us to control our music. Sometimes if we practice on one instrument too much when your fingers are asked for more effort you cannot accomplish it. I have found this a fact with students of mine who grow up on the lighter keyboard action of a Yamaha. When they come to play on the Bösendorfer they feel overwhelmed with the heavier action. Then I have had students who have piano playing experience only from electric keyboards with no touch sensitivity. You can imagine their difficulty calibrating their technique to a real piano action.

I grew up on a Bösendorfer which had very heavy action. So usually any other piano I played felt a lot lighter in action to play. When I was young I would always play too loud when in public performance because usually the keyboards where a Yamaha. It took me time to first hear that I was playing too loud and also understand how to react to a lighter actioned keyboard. I find there is no real words to describe your understanding of a keyboard except that you can relate it to the pieces you know and then measure musically all the aspects of piano playing to the physical action to the keyboard. This has little to do with knowing where the piano comes from, what wood it is made out of, what strings are on it etc. These things might become important if that is the information you use to adjust your piano playing skills but it is not a fact I think as musicians. We are not technicians, we do not have to know the insides of a piano, all we have to know is how it feels on our hands and how easy it is to make the sound we want out of it.

[Kassaa]

Maybe it's interesting to you, from Sokolov's biography: "Sokolov knows more about a Steinway than many piano technicians, and before he sits down to play a strange instrument, he first examines its inner mechanics, taking it to pieces. He is used to studying for many hours every day, and even on the day of a concert, practices on stage for hours, “getting to know” the piano."

It would be great if you can interview him about this, or mail him with questions about this, but he's pretty damn reclusive so there's not a big chance it will work out.

https://www.amcmusic.com/eng/contatti.html is the site of his managment company.

Good luck with your thesis!

[cdw]

Thanks a lot Kassaa! That's a realy good input!
I think its very interesting to look at the different points of view of really good pianists and performers: when I asked my teacher he said he doesn't really care about everthing that's inside, just listen and it's ok. But to hear it from the other side will help me more, that's more interesting I guess. So I'm glad to read this!
Indeed, twould be great if I could get to know more about his opinion, eventhough that could be very hard to figure out..

 

[richard black]

As a pianist and also an engineer, I can't understand how anyone would _not_ want to know at least a little about how a piano works!

[cdw]

As a pianist and also an engineer, I can't understand how anyone would _not_ want to know at least a little about how a piano works!

Well, I'm quit sure that every pianist (maybe not the little ones, the beginning children) knows to on certain level how the piano works: when you hit the key, the hammer makes the string vibrate, the damper stops the vibrations. Also how the pedals work.
But the question is: how far do you have to go? Is it important for a pro-pianist to know everything about the felt, details about the escapemechanism, the materials, the action, history of the instrument, names..
Like I said before: some say no. But if you say yes, how far do you have to go to improve your playing?

[gyzzzmo]

Hi, my name's Charlotte, I'm new here. I am doing my final thesis at the conservatory about how important it is for a pianist to know his or her instrument inside out. How the mechanics work, the pedals, etc.. A friend of mine told me I should post here to get more opinions about this topic, as I need as much input as possible .

So what do you all think what is important about your instrument that influences your performance the most? This can range from name (how you think you play better on a Steinway than on a Yamaha, f.i.), price, mechanics, piano history, types of material the keys are made out of, heaviness of touch (everything about touch in general), and anything else you can think of.

This could also be a nice discussion I believe, any reply is very much appreciated!

- Charlotte

Brand: As long as its a good brand, you should do fine on it. But ofcourse, if you order your custom piano its the best.
Price: Not important, but ofcourse you can say in general, the more expensive, the better.
Mechanics: I dont think you have to know HOW it works, it just has to work for you.
Piano history: Irrelevant.
Types of materials: irrelevant (as long as it works for you)
Touch: Very important, if youre not used to a certain touch you'll screw pieces up, especially with alot of pp and ppp
Pedalling: Very important.

[cdw]

Thnx for your opinion Gyzzzmo, really need both sides to get somewhere..

[richard black]

I'm quite sure that every pianist .... knows .... how the pedals work

Never mind the action - for my part, I'm quite sure that _very_ few pianists know in real detail how that works, though most will of course have a rough idea - I have certainly met plenty of seasoned professionals who don't know how the pedals work. Sustain, yes, but left pedal (different of course on grands and uprights) and sostenuto, frankly, no.

But in practical terms what's important is to realise that with experience you can sit in front of practically anything with 88 working keys and play well, taking no more than a few measures to get used to the action. Yes, different pianos impose different limits on what you can do (you'll never get an elderly cheap upright to trill fast, for instance, and some pianos are fundamentally incapable of going really loud) but the basics will always be there.

[bjahdc]

Doesn't anyone else find that on upright pianos, you do not need to press down on the keys very much, but on grand pianos, you need to press down a lot more on the keys before sound comes out?

This makes playing on grand pianos more difficult because you need to press down further with your fingers and if you're not used to it, it can be quite difficult, especially when playing something at a quick tempo.

[ramseytheii]

It's not at all necessary to know about the piano mechanism to play well.  It just isn't.

About pedals: most pianists do not understand them in the sense of the effects they can create.  They know what they do in a mechanical sense.  Pianists understand the middle pedal (third pedal) in a mechanical sense, but never use it.  They don't understand or have any idea how it can be useful.

The other thing is that many great pianists of today and yesteryear distinguished themselves not only by great artistry, but by knowing about and freely adjusting their pianos.  Gould and Horowitz played on heavily adjusted pianos; they would undoubtedly be recognized as great artists no matter what, but because of that, their stature rose even higher in my opinion, as they crafted individual sounds for themselves not only with touch, but with the actual instrument.

Today, there are so many damn pianists in the world, that anything you can do to distinguish yourself is useful.  Look at Ivan Moravec and Krystian Zimmerman (who can build a piano from scratch): they are partly distinguished by the adjustments they make to whatever piano they play on.  I know a technician who described Moravec's obsessive shaving of hammers and re-weighting actions.

It's not necessary to play well; but a lot of people play well.  It's always a good thing to add knowledge to your arsenal, and never trust those who say knowledge is harmful.  It may not be useful, but art isn't useful either.

Walter Ramsey

[pianoperformer]

I don't think it is necessary to be an expert on the mechanics. I say know the basics, and what the pedals are for.

I practice on Steinway baby grands at college. Usually the one I practice on has very heavy keys. I like it though, because it is good for finger strength, and when I actually go to perform, it is usually on something lighter, and it is easier to adjust to a lighter touch than to a heavier one. Also I found that some of the things I worked very hard to master on the piano I practice on were much easier on the other piano.

I grew up performing, and so I can perform on pretty much anything. I remember playing for this wedding once. I walked in expecting it to be a nice piano, like most weddings I've done, but it was this horrible digital piano with no touch sensitivity and hardly any weight. And the pedal was somehow messed up so that to sustain, I had to push it up with my foot instead of press down. that was something interesting.

[dan101]

If you have a curious mind, then knowing about the mechanics of the piano is fascinatiing. This type of knowledge also helps in purchasing a new piano, although having a technician on hand is probably a better option.

As for assisting in performances, it hasn't enhanced my interpretations. I am, however, more content knowing the mechanics of the instrument that I spend so much time playing.

[dora96]

Brand: As long as its a good brand, you should do fine on it. But ofcourse, if you order your custom piano its the best.
Price: Not important, but ofcourse you can say in general, the more expensive, the better.
Mechanics: I dont think you have to know HOW it works, it just has to work for you.
Piano history: Irrelevant.
Types of materials: irrelevant (as long as it works for you)
Touch: Very important, if youre not used to a certain touch you'll screw pieces up, especially with alot of pp and ppp
Pedalling: Very important.

Thank you for this post.  I have been playing in different retirement village for 6 months to gain performance experience. I can play and practice my repertoires with memorization. I find that some pianos just impossible to make performance well. I remember I play on this old piano the sound is not too bad, but there is quite gappy between the keys. The touch of the piano is different to what I am used to. It is enough to screw up the some piece I am performing. The gap and yellow stain between the keys distract me to remember the song. Other place I perform, the piano's pedal there is hardly working, very little  sustain, the sound of piano can't produce FF when I play the Beethoven pathetique. I feel so bad, I try to talk to manager, she doesn't understand the important of good instrument. I only have upright kawai piano. I seldom to play on grand piano only in exam or play at church in service. Where can I get to practice on grand piano in reasonable price.

[pianowelsh]

Vital!! If you are working with a machine in a factory - you have to know its workings before you are allowed to use it - partly for safety.. but also so you understand how the machine accomplishes the product. As pianists we need to know how the mechanism of the piano works so and inccidentally how our mechanism works and what effects this has on our control of tone and sound etc... It is also a great help in the process of solving mechanical problems - ie inefficient pedalling or sticky repeated notes...if we understand how they function we can make the necessary physical adjustments in our playing!

[slobone]

Where can I get to practice on grand piano in reasonable price.

dora96, see if a local college or university has piano practice rooms, and talk to one of the music teachers there. The rooms aren't always in use, and perhaps you could go at least go on weekends or during vacation.

I used to practice at a local community college quite often, with the understanding that if one of their students wanted to use the piano, I would turn it back over to them.

Perhaps your own teacher could make a few phone calls? 

[richard black]

it was this horrible digital piano with no touch sensitivity and hardly any weight. And the pedal was somehow messed up so that to sustain, I had to push it up with my foot instead of press down

Ah, well that's where knowing your instrument can help (not that I consider any kind of digital piano my instrument either....) - most digitals can be set for pedal up, or pedal down, to sustain but you need to know how to do it, it's not usually obvious.

[Bob]

What's the trick?  I hate playing on digitals like that.

[slobone]

[Oops I pushed the wrong button...]

[dora96]

As a pianist, it is the bigger challenge for us , we can't choose our instrument during performance. I have been performing around different places for 8 months, retirement villages, schools, community halls, etc... Most pianos I have no problem with, but there was couple of times, there was Kawai upright piano, somehow the key is too slippy, and the action is too sticky. I have to play Mozart Sonata K330. It was a nightmare. My fingers just couldn't move or lift up quick enough. Another time, I attended my piano teacher mini concert, she has a K.Kawai grand piano, again the keys are too slippy and the action is heavy. I have to play Beethoven Pathetique. The tremolo was out balance, and I couldn't keep the left soft enough to bring out the melodies.

I feel it is not very fair during the exam, most students have to test on the grand piano which they never try it before. How often, ordinary students will have a grand piano at home to practice on. I know in the piano exam, high level students can try out the grand piano before the exam, but for short period time, how will you get used to the piano. At once time, one of my friend went for her diploma exam, there was K. kawai grand piano in the small room. She played the Moonlight Sonata. the sound of the piano is far too loud in the small room. She's so used to practice with all tone colour with her interpretion but in the small room , ff , sfz  sounded that far too loud, the pp sounded not soft enough. The examiner  commented her too over exaggerated, overreacted with the tone, the dynamic too bustled touch. She just got passed the exam, but in normal circumstance in the concert hall, she will be great. Honestly, not only the piano can affect the performance, the height of the seat, the position of the piano, the touch, the pedal, the tone, the atmosphere of the place, the noise, etc....

[synapse]

I think every good pianist goes through moments of just hitting random keys and listening to the sound that their piano makes.

[ramseytheii]

I think every good pianist goes through moments of just hitting random keys and listening to the sound that their piano makes.

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Walter Ramsey

[goldentone]

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Walter Ramsey

A stirring atonal dialect there.