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Topic: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills  (Read 9416 times)

Offline feddera

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Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
on: May 10, 2008, 11:38:17 AM
So I just started on my first Chopin nocturne, but I'm not sure how to play the trills. When I try they just sound wrong. I'm guessing they should be played as 16th notes, but which note do you start on? Like in measure 5 and measure 47, which notes, in what order, and how many of them should I play?  :P
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Offline ryanyee

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 01:22:11 PM
try playing 1/32 notes and then 1/16 notes
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Offline feddera

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #2 on: May 11, 2008, 06:27:07 AM
Thank you for replying, but that didn't really help me much. What I meant was, do you start the trill at the F# and trill upwards? Or on G# and trill downwards? Maybe F# downward to E?
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Offline kghayesh

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 10:28:22 PM
Quote from: feddera on May 11, 2008, 06:27:07 AM
Thank you for replying, but that didn't really help me much. What I meant was, do you start the trill at the F# and trill upwards? Or on G# and trill downwards? Maybe F# downward to E?

no  no of course don't start the trill from F# then E! The tr. is written on F# so you have to start on F# and then play G# (as 1/32 notes of course) You can even start the trill softly and then gradually make a hidden small inner crescendo and then play less, just to make the music more interesting by adding some variation.
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Offline feddera

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #4 on: May 12, 2008, 04:58:09 AM
Thank you so much kghayesh! I'm not really familiar with ornaments from that period, so I just made some guesses.  :P
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Offline lewisbrooke

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 11:27:56 PM
The best thing to do if you're not sure how to play something is listen to recordings of it! For example, you can look on youtube or itunes, and it'll give you some good ideas.
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Offline feddera

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 12:25:04 AM
Well, I did, but I found it quite difficult to figure out if the trills contained 8, 10 or 12 notes even if I heard the piece.  :P Still haven't quite decided, but I practise the other parts in the meantime.
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Offline ryanyee

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 11:38:27 AM
Quote from: feddera on May 11, 2008, 06:27:07 AM
Thank you for replying, but that didn't really help me much. What I meant was, do you start the trill at the F# and trill upwards? Or on G# and trill downwards? Maybe F# downward to E?

 i play it starting on e and then going up to f# and the rest is g until the appogiaturas or whatever those small notes are i forgot already.
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Offline pelajarpiano

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #8 on: June 01, 2008, 05:12:33 PM
Quote from: feddera on May 10, 2008, 11:38:17 AM
So I just started on my first Chopin nocturne, but I'm not sure how to play the trills. When I try they just sound wrong. I'm guessing they should be played as 16th notes, but which note do you start on? Like in measure 5 and measure 47, which notes, in what order, and how many of them should I play?  :P

Well, you must play the F# first then G#. coz the trill is written on F#.And you must play it as many as you finish the trill until the E note. You must hear the recordings of that sound. Don't count how many the trill was played, but feel the music. You must hear the recordings repeatedly to understand the time to go to the next note. ^^
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Offline ryanyee

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 02:28:32 PM
don't u think it sounds funny when u play the f# without the e first? sounds a bit 2 abrupt a start 2 me.
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 10:51:28 PM
Here's an alternative way of thinking about trills, especially when utilized in a composition by Chopin.  Don't measure the trill or even have a specific duration for them (i.e. 16th notes or 32nd notes).  Make them sound as beautifully as you can.  If you do this, you'll realize that you aren't measuring the trill out and it will have a natural tension and release.
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #11 on: June 02, 2008, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: ryanyee on June 02, 2008, 02:28:32 PM
don't u think it sounds funny when u play the f# without the e first? sounds a bit 2 abrupt a start 2 me.

I agree that it probably sounds funny but the reason is because the trill has been measured.  If the trill is allowed to unroll naturally, it sounds beautifully.
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Offline pelajarpiano

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: ryanyee on June 02, 2008, 02:28:32 PM
don't u think it sounds funny when u play the f# without the e first? sounds a bit 2 abrupt a start 2 me.

No, it's not funny. You can try that, and hear the recording of that song.I mean  f# is hitted first at the trill in measure 5.then before u go to g# in measure 6, you hit e then f#.

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Offline pelajarpiano

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 07:13:35 AM
You can hear the trills and whole of nocturne at my attachment. Some part is different but you can enjoy that. That is midi song.
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Offline nyonyo

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 11:01:42 AM
For me, I have to pay a special attention to thrills. Otherwise, it can ruin the whole piece. I usually practice slowly first until I get the good thrill in slow tempo and then I count how many notes that I need  to produce that beautiful execution. After, I practice to make it consistent. If I just follow the sound, many times, I cannot produce consistent thrills.
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Offline feddera

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #15 on: June 04, 2008, 02:00:12 PM
Well, thanks alot for all the replies guys. You are both right pelajarpiano and ryanyee. I have one version with an E grace note infront of the opening trill, and another version without it. I think I like it best without the E, but the trill still has to start slow and accellerate.

I have tried to just play a trill without thinking about the notes, but I just can't make it sound smooth enough. Like nyonyo, I will have to find out exactly how I want it, and stick with it. Maybe when I am better at trills, will I be able to just "trill".

So if anyone who played this broke down the trills, please tell me how you did it!
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Offline pelajarpiano

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 06:49:56 AM
Well, if you still have problem with the trill, maybe it's better for you to take the finger excercise first. You can play hanon part 1 exercise no.1, after you play that your finger will be smoother and consistent to do thrill. Try play the note from 60 then up to 108 gradually.

I hope it's usefull.
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Offline xpjamiexd

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 02:21:38 PM
Quote from: feddera on June 04, 2008, 02:00:12 PM
Well, thanks alot for all the replies guys. You are both right pelajarpiano and ryanyee. I have one version with an E grace note infront of the opening trill, and another version without it. I think I like it best without the E, but the trill still has to start slow and accellerate.

I have tried to just play a trill without thinking about the notes, but I just can't make it sound smooth enough. Like nyonyo, I will have to find out exactly how I want it, and stick with it. Maybe when I am better at trills, will I be able to just "trill".

So if anyone who played this broke down the trills, please tell me how you did it!

Don't break down the trills to a set structure, just play them for as long as comes naturally to you.
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Offline pelajarpiano

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C# minor(posth.) trills
Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 04:38:01 AM
I get the good thecnique for do the thrill.
After you feel your finger is ready, do the thrill smoothly, don't raise your finger from the key.Your finger still on the key but you do the thrill smoothly.
Is it help..?
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