where can I find 4 part homophonic music scores?

[casparma]

Hi, where can I find homophonic music scores in 4 part textures (4 voiced)

My teacher told me it sounds like "god" songs...

any way, please tell me where I can them...


thank you very much

[slobone]

The best and most famous example would be the Bach chorales. They're really a textbook of 4-part harmony (besides being absolutely beautiful). The edition that I have is from G. Schirmer, edited by Riemenschneider, but you could check Amazon for alternatives.

Incidentally, most of these chorales were not written as keyboard compositions, but have been transcribed from four-part choruses in the cantatas and oratorios. Most of them are harmonizations of traditional German hymn tunes (which is probably what your teacher meant by God songs!).

It's particularly interesting to compare the differences when Bach has harmonized the same tune in more than one way. There are 6 different versions of Jesu, Meine Freude, for example.

There's no better way to study harmony. You could spend years on them and not exhaust what they have to teach...

[casparma]

really thank you for your response, slobone, I will try to find if I can find any of those socalled chorales online.

By the way, I don't know what you by harmonization in this case, since it's homophonic, meaning only note at a time per clef???

[slobone]

Homophonic means that the voices move together -- so that there's a single chord for each note of the melody. It's opposed to polyphonic, where the voices move independently.

Of course, no piece, especially by Bach, is purely homophonic or polyphonic. If you're singing a chorale in a four-part chorus, your individual part (soprano, alto, tenor or bass) will also usually sound good as a separate voice. And in polyphonic music, the individual voices come together in chords at frequent intervals.

As for clefs, usually the soprano and alto parts are in the treble cleff, and the tenor and bass are in the bass clef. It's all based on vocal music originally.

[casparma]

thanks for your explanation, slobone...

however, the purpose of finding those chorales is that I need them to practice my sight reading, which is kinda required for me to take a further music education at a local music college....

I mean, I don't know if I interpret the requirement correctly, but do you actually play 4 clefs all at the same time, or just the bottom 2 clefs?? It looks quite difficult to sight read FOUR clefs..... I've never seen music pieces written in 4 clefs for piano.... 

any idea on how I should start??? perhaps some tips on like, say pattern recognition???

[slobone]

Oh sorry, now I see what you're asking. In the edition I mentioned, the chorales are transcribed into 2 clefs rather than 4 clefs. So you can read them just like any other piano music.

However this particular edition crowds a lot together on a page, so you need good eyes. That's why I suggested looking for other editions that are laid out better.

[casparma]

thanks for your response, slobone

For sight playing the best practice would be 4-voiced pieces in
homophonic texture, such as hymns. We will give you something pretty
stratighforward in a not-too-difficult key (no more than 3 sharps or
flats) and it will be in a 4-part texture.

However, I am still not sure. Above the quote is the requirement for my local music college.
Do you really think that I will be asked to play music pieces with 4 clefs together?? 

[slobone]

I doubt that you will be asked to play from music with 4 clefs, but you should check with them.

And by the way there are easier collections of hymns than the Bach chorales! Look for hymnals in your library.

[casparma]

I doubt that you will be asked to play from music with 4 clefs, but you should check with them.

Ok, I just asked. It's 4 part but condensed into two clefs.

However, do you think by practicing in sight reading 4 clefs does me a favor in ensuring my sight reading ability in the condensed two clefs?? Or do you guys think there can be some negative side effects?

please help...

thx

[slobone]

I don't see any particular advantage at this point. Later on you may try (or be required) to learn to read music in more than 2 clefs, for example if you want to be a conductor, but for now 2 clefs is enough. Just get a hymnal and start practicing!

[Bob]

Sounds like they want standard piano music.  A hymn, four voice, written on two staves.

It's not bad to be able to read off 4 clefs though.  Just get some choir octavos.  Easier pieces esp (they just double a lot anyway, so it's not always true four voice, but it's a nice way to start).  And the tenor is written an octavo higher with the treble clef.  I don't know why. 

I haven't done a whole lot of that myself, but it is good to have an idea of it in case you accompany a choir.  Or rather, in case you rehearsal with the choir and play their parts and not just the accompaniment.  You don't have to play all the parts either.  Combos are good and a nice way to mix things up. SA, ST, SB, AT, AB, TB.

[slobone]

It's not bad to be able to read off 4 clefs though.  Just get some choir octavos.  Easier pieces esp (they just double a lot anyway, so it's not always true four voice, but it's a nice way to start). 

Choir music where the sections double each other? I sang in a chorus for a long time and I never saw that. It would be a real no-no. Unless the piece is written in 3 parts of course...

[casparma]

So, can any one tell me where I can find pieces of 4 part music condensed into two clefs??

The only pieces I can find is a pdf of chorales from Bach but written in 4 clefs. Hope I can find two clefs ones as well...

[Bob]

Choir music where the sections double each other? I sang in a chorus for a long time and I never saw that. It would be a real no-no. Unless the piece is written in 3 parts of course...

Yes, there are pieces like that.  Easier music for school choirs.  I was wondering how in the world a choir would sing 2-part music they way they rehearsed.  Then I realized the music was exactly the same for soprano and alto except for a few split notes on the cadences.  So "2-part" but it's really 1-part with a2's on a few notes. 

[casparma]

And the tenor is written an octavo higher with the treble clef.

What do you mean, any example???

Yes, there are pieces like that.  Easier music for school choirs.  I was wondering how in the world a choir would sing 2-part music they way they rehearsed.  Then I realized the music was exactly the same for soprano and alto except for a few split notes on the cadences.  So "2-part" but it's really 1-part with a2's on a few notes. 

I also dont get what you mean here... can you tell me what each of the 4 clefs is called from top to bottom? I know they are, bass, treble, alto, tenor, soprano (wait, there are 5 clefs??), but I dont know the order...

Besides, any example of 4 part texture hymn like music condensed into two clefs??? Say, by a famous composer like Bach?


please help

thanks

[Bob]

In choir music, the tenor part is written an octave higher with a treble clef, even though it's sounding down in the bass clear range.  Upper part of the bass clef.  I don't know why they do that.  When you look at it, it can appear like the tenor part is higher than the alto.  Maybe it's to make the tenor and bass parts easier to pick up visually on the score. 

There are pieces written for school choirs.  They use the smaller ocatvo size sheets of paper.  Little folded booklets.  I believe they start out with unison pieces and then go all the way up to more complicated SATB pieces.  I just remember being suprised that the 2-part piece really wasn't much of a 2-part piece, more like 1-part.  Then it hit me what was going on.  They just wrote it like that so the kids could transition into having different parts.  It is different seeing two staves running along instead of just one.

Choir music parts?  SATB  soprano, alto, tenor, bass

I would think any famous composer who something for a full choir would have somethign similar to SATB.  Sometimes they have two soprano parts or two bass parts.  Things like that.  Or a solo part.  Just to make it confusing.  Haha. 

Bach hymns are what pop into my mind right away.  I'm not sure who else wrote a lot of hymns like that.  Or music that got turned into hymns.  Just pick up a church hymnal though.  They have them in libraries too. 

Lots of results for your efforts find Bach hymns.  And Bach is the god so...  Who better?

Online though?  Hmm... I'm not sure.  Buy it maybe.  I bought a Bach chorale book, except it turned out to have very small print.  Annoying but I have it.  Otherwise a church hymnal, from an actual church or maybe at the library, would be another good source.  That's having it written out in two staves.

The choir octavo stuff is different.  Those are little paper booklets.  That might have the SATB parts written above a piano accompaniment part.  Those can really vary depending on the piece.  If it's SATB, SA, SSA, etc. and if the choir sings accapella with no accompaniment. 

[camstrings]

There is much music at the Werner Icking site. Just google this name for a link.
Best wishes

[slobone]

What do you mean, any example???

I also dont get what you mean here... can you tell me what each of the 4 clefs is called from top to bottom? I know they are, bass, treble, alto, tenor, soprano (wait, there are 5 clefs??), but I dont know the order...

Besides, any example of 4 part texture hymn like music condensed into two clefs??? Say, by a famous composer like Bach?


please help

thanks

casparma, I'm starting to think you have a short attention span. I already told you about the Bach chorales, which were written in 4 parts but have been published in the 2-clef version I referred you to (by Riemenschneider). I also told you about some easier music in the same style, which can be found in any hymnal. There must be online hymnals, or ask your local church if you can borrow one.

There are many different clefs, for a complete list see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef

When 4-part music is written in two clefs, the top is called the treble clef and has the soprano and alto parts. The bottom clef is called the bass clef and has the tenor and bass parts. If you're going to be a music major, at some point you'll probably have to learn to read alto and tenor clefs as well, but it's not necessary at this point.

[casparma]

casparma, I'm starting to think you have a short attention span. I already told you about the Bach chorales, which were written in 4 parts but have been published in the 2-clef version I referred you to (by Riemenschneider). I also told you about some easier music in the same style, which can be found in any hymnal. There must be online hymnals, or ask your local church if you can borrow one.

There are many different clefs, for a complete list see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef

When 4-part music is written in two clefs, the top is called the treble clef and has the soprano and alto parts. The bottom clef is called the bass clef and has the tenor and bass parts. If you're going to be a music major, at some point you'll probably have to learn to read alto and tenor clefs as well, but it's not necessary at this point.

Oh sorry, I was trying to find them online. Dont have the money to buy from Internet so....

Besides, is there any thing musically different between Bach's chorale and hymnal music though?? because I've tried to play the original bach's chorale in 4 clefs, and I find it's very difficult to play two notes on the left hand (most of the time, the lowest note of the other upper 3 clefs is higher than an octave from the note in the lowest clef). That is, I always play three notes on my right hand, and one note on my left hand. However, the hymnal music I have seen online, condensed in 2 clefs, have two notes in each of the clefs.....

any idea on this??

thanks in advance

[slobone]

There's no real difference between Bach's chorales and most hymn arrangements except that Bach is harder because his harmonies are more unexpected, and also he uses more passing notes (the transitional notes between chords).

As for finding them online, no doubt somebody somewhere has a free online hymnal in pdf or similar format. Try Google. In the meantime here's a sample of what you're looking for:

https://www.gbod.org/worship/music/earth.pdf

UPDATE: OK, go to this site

https://www.hymnsite.com/

It's one of those sites where they don't use separate URLs for individual pages? So click where it says Hymn Index on the left. Then choose a hymn from the list. Below the lyrics of each hymn you should see a link that says Piano Score (pdf file). The scores are somewhat rudimentary, but you should be able to play from them.

Update to the update: Here's a small selection of Bach chorales in piano score, in pdf files. Some of the chorales have additional instruments which you should just ignore.

https://www.jsbchorales.net/pdf.shtml

[casparma]

Thanks so much for your help, slobone, but also to others who have helped obviously...

but, slobone, look at this chorale: https://www.jsbchorales.net/down/pdfpno/bwv25200pno.pdf

for the piano part, in the 4th measure that it, in the bass clef, you see there are two notes which are obviously more than one octave higher than the notes beneath them. I was asking about this in my previous post whether it's true or not that for bach's chorale, usually you play three notes on the right hand and only one note on the left hand.

Or, is it just natural to play these two notes which are obviously one octave higher than the notes beneath them with one hand (left)? This is just impossible for me because my biggest hand span is an octave.


Any idea on this??

thanks in advance

[Bob]

Yeah, that doesn't look like it's written for piano. 

You can stick to exactly what's written.  That would keep the line in tact.

You can switch the hand that plays it.  The right hand is already right there.

Do a two note roll from the bass note up with the left hand so you can hit both notes.  Not at the same time, but almost.

That horn 2 part has its first two 8ths crossing the bar.  Might be the pdf conversion, but it might also be someone who does quite know how to use Finale.  Looks like Finale to me. 

Depends what the performance situation is.  For myself, I'd make it so I could play it, and play it easily, and make it sound good.  Whatever I have to do to make that happen.
You can switch the note up/down an octave.  That will mess up the line, but make it much more playable. 

Same idea of shifting it... Trade notes with another chord note in the other hand.  Again, messes up the lines, but it keeps all the notes of the chord in tact.

You can leave out the fifth of the chord too and sometimes squeeze a note in around there.

Or leave an inner line out.  Soprano, bass, and the chord.  People aren't going to miss an inner line so much.


Who knows how this music was arranged.  Probably sticking to exactly what was in the original score.  That arrangment doesn't look exactly keyboard friendly.  (Hopes it's not Bach's original now.)  Even still, that's not quite friendly with the intervals there.

I would just rewrite it a little and make it work and sound as good as possible.  The nice thing about that is you can make it tailored to you and how much acrobatics you want to do.

With scanning technology today, who knows how that was put together?  It's possible someone slapped it on the computer, punched in what instruments it's for, and then the computer did the rest -- Ignoring the hand issues for pianists. 

Hmmm.. Horn parts are in C.  You can probably safely leave that 1st horn line out if the horn is playing it.  It's just doubled in the keyboard part.  No one will miss that. 

Valves are 1830-ish.  Although... I think those horn notes might be possible without changing valves.... Maybe.  Just notes in the overtone series. 

I would guess that's a Greentree arrangment since it says Harmonized by Bach.  Probably arranged by Greentree, who isn't Bach, so you can rearrange her stuff. 

[slobone]

No, basically none of the chorales was written for the keyboard. This one's from a cantata, so presumably was originally for 4-part choir.

Bob's suggestions are good, my preference would be to play the F# in the third beat and the G in the fourth beat, in the tenor part, in the right hand.

Incidentally, I've sung some of these chorales (I'm a bass), and we quickly learned that the bass part is usually the hardest and most important. If you have to cheat anywhere, don't cheat in the bass.