Chopin Etude No 7 advices needed here

[aragonaise]

I embarked on the Etude No 7 after reading how Abby Whiteside has made it the definitive piece in her discussion on using our upper arm and forearm as powerful levels. To her, it's a very simple acid test: if you can play the piece at speed, you have it. If not, you don't have, and you jolly well read my book carefully!

Excerpts from the book:
One movement of the upper arm produces one articulation. Use the upper arm (a pull) for the thirds.
One movement of the forearm produces another articulation. Use the forearm (Extension, down-action) for the sixths.
To stimulate a vivid sense of these 2 actions, place the hand flat, palm down, on the keys. Then use a quick vigorous pull with the upper arm, flexing the forearm as a complement of this pull....

I interpreted the passage as flapping our palms, much like how we do it when we wave our hands up and down as if we're calling someone to come over. In the downward motion, I use the 2-3 to play the thirds, and in the upward motion, I use the 1-5 to play the sixths. If I flap my hands vigorously enough, I may just achieve the desired speed.

But when I finally got a teacher, he threw all these concepts out of the window. He was saying, " Where is the legato? You are playing too detached!" It's true I had totally neglected the melody legato in the sole aim of achieving speed, and nowhere did Abby Whiteside mentioned anything about legating the melody.

Then my teacher proceeded to revamp the 2-3,1-5 fingering, and change the action to a 1-2, 1-5 fingering, holding the 2 for the legato effect.  True there is more legato now, but I don't know how speed can be built. My teacher just said slow practice for a few months and with due diligence I may just achieve that speed....

so now here I am polling you guys for opinions on the Etude No 7. Which is which? I am terribly confused... do ppl play this etude with total detachment, striving for speed to cover up the detachment, or do ppl actually try to link the notes in an effort to make the piece sound legato?

Mighty thanks for any advices.


 

[richy321]

I have tried Abby's approach to this etude and believe that her analysis is correct and helpful in mastering it; however, I have the following cautionary remarks:

1.  It is not sensible to use this piece as some kind of test to see whether you have the necessary coordination of the forearm and upper arm or not.  It is a truism that if you can play it at tempo, then you have the necessary technique, that is, if you can play it musically and without injury. It is true that arm coordination is isolated in this piece, to the exclusion of finger dexterity, but this coordination is necessary in all playing and attempting this piece before you have developed the foundations is not a good idea.  It could lead to injury.

2.  It is almost impossible and certainly risky to work on such a demanding piece without the guidance of a teacher.  Since your teacher is not in synch with Abby's approach that's a problem.  You need to go with his approach if you want to work on this piece at all.  Remember that there is always more than one way to model your technique.  The important thing is that it is integrated into a complete technique and takes injury avoidance into account.  By the way, I think it would be a fair test of your teacher's approach if he can demonstrate some mastery of this piece.  If he can't, I wouldn't assume that he should be teaching it.

3.  It is not surprising that Abby does not stress legato in this piece.  She waged a campaign against the mania for legato generally.  She stresses instead, smoothness and  evenness rather than literal connection of notes.  This piece, especially at the speed it is taken, would not seem to call for connected legato.  Even at slow tempo, attempting to connect the notes can impede technique.  I'm surprised that your teacher makes such an issue of it.  I don't notice legato, other than in the sense of an extremely light and even articulation, almost leggiero, in recordings of this piece, such as Perahia or Lugansky.

4.  Whatever you decide regarding technique and legato, proceed with caution.  It is best if you can rely completely on your teacher.  If you find yourself in disagreement that you can't resolve, I would either work on other material that does not present this problem, or find a new teacher that is more suitable to your own needs.

5.  Incidentally, this is one piece where I found that Abby's idea of "outlining" was quite helpful.  Not as a way to simplify the learning of the piece, but as a way to focus on particular musicial and mechanical aspects of the piece.

In my case, due to a shoulder injury which required surgical repair, caused by working on my own on Opus 10/1, I finally relented and found an excellent teacher and it is the best decision I ever made.  I am able to discuss Abby's ideas and integrate (or modify or reject) them with his own approach, which comes out of the Taubman/Golandsky school.  No, I don't tackle anything as demanding as Opus 10/7 yet, or any Chopin for that matter.  I had to go back and rebuild my technique from the very basics, i.e, how to use the body with the minimum of tension, use of the forearm, rotation, etc.  Overall, I would say that Abby's holistic ideas are still helpful and important to me, but now I take everything with a grain of salt and put much greater reliance on my teacher when there is any discrepancy in ideas.

Finally, I want to say that reading Abby was an inspiration to me and prompted me to go back to piano playing after many decades of avoidance, but playing virtuoso music is not something one should undertake without qualified supervision.  It can definitely be hazardous to one's health. 

 

[aragonaise]

Hi Richy, firstly I must thank you for the conscientious reply.

If I may use an analogy for my current situation,  I feel like I have been knocking on the doors of piano virtuosity for the longest time, but the door just wont budge. But we are talking about a metaphorical door and a metaphorical universe. Things are not clear-cut, and the best I can hope for are anchors to remind myself of my situation--in or out. The Etude happens to be just one of the anchors advocated by Abby, and you have agreed it is certainly a good, if unsensible, anchor.

Secondly, I really envy you for having a teacher whom you can trust completely. I have been drifting from teacher to teacher, to limited results. After this whole exercise of searching for a teacher, I begin to find their advices getting really arbitrary and conflicting. Hence, till I manage to find a teacher whom I can trust completely, my journey will continue to take on a random walk.

Lastly, can you please elaborate more on your shoulder injury? You said it was caused by Op 10 No 1. Exactly what kind of practice did you indulge in to cause such serious damage requiring surgery to correct? Your thorough account here would definitely help ppl like us embarking on the etudes on our own.

[richy321]

Finally getting back to this site.

By coincidence, this is the 2-year anniversary to the day of my shoulder injury.  I've had two surgeries, the first to repair a badly torn rotator cuff, and a follow-up a year later to clean up some bone chips that was causing spasms.  I was 66 years old at the time.

Exactly 2-years ago, on Memorial Day, I was pushing the tempo of the Etude in C, up to final tempo.  I have small hands, so the only way I could do this was to not only rotate my hands, but to "overlap" the rotations from the shoulder, so that my shoulder was in a state of continuous tension without letup. I felt extreme fatigue, like something had torn.  Stupid, I know, but at the time I thought tension was just a platitude, not a killer.

About 9 months after the first surgery I was ready to think about piano playing again, and, for some reason, I was now ready to look for a teacher, which I had scoffed at before.  I was lucky to find a Golandsky-trained teacher nearby.  I feel that we have a synergy that is remarkable.  But I will have to say that for the first 4 months I was not allowed to play a single note of music, until I had learned what it means to move and play without tension.  In other words, my technique had to be rebuilt from the ground up.  I now play mostly Bach, Haydn, Schumann and Debussy.  I am still phobic about Chopin, but it will happen in due course.

I still find Abby a most stimulating and provocative read, but I wish she was more attuned to the dangers of tension.