Changing teacher...how best to tell him/her

[aragonaise]

I have a teacher with whom I have had a couple of lessons. I feel his teaching methods are unsuitable for me--he of the traditional school type which preaches slow play etc..., and I weaned on CC Chang and Abby Whiteside--so I feel like discontinuing my lessons.

Should I tell him the truth that we have a clash of learning paedagogy?
Or should I just say something untrue but more tactful--like going on a long holiday?

Sharing your experiences are most welcome.

[Bob]

Upfront could be good.  Honest.  That could be difficult though.  "I don't agree with your teaching methods."  Ouch. 

Or if you're not making progress or have leveled out.

Those are still things that could be changed in the lesson though.


I suppose another way, a little trickier, would be to "take the summer off" and then give him a call and say thanks, but you're not going to take lessons anymore.  That's that.  Meanwhile you could take lessons with another teacher.  But, that does kind of blow off the first teacher and you might lose them for future contact.

If you've got a big difference in expectations, I would just be upfront.  Then this current teacher might be able to recommend someone who matches you better.

[dan101]

You could always say that your stopping for a while, as you're overworked in other areas of your life. Chances are, that will be the end of it.

Of course, you could be honest, but that approach tends to work better with a teacher who's classy and dignified. I don't know what your teacher's personality is.

Best of luck.

[nyonyo]

When you tell the truth, you can be in an uncomfortable situation.
There is not right or wrong, you guys just do not see eye to eye.
Just tell him that you need to take a long break from piano.

[Bob]

What are your concerns exactly?  What does a clash of pedagogy mean?

I suppose it depends what the problems are, if they can fixed, and if you plan to contact this person again.

[slobone]

Whatever you do, don't lie, that would be dumb. First tell your teacher your concerns. Possibly he/she might be flexible about teaching methods and let you practice the way you want to. If not, then you can just say "I've already put in a lot of time on the Chang method, and it works great for me. I'd rather not put in the time to start all over with a different approach."

But are you so sure this teacher has nothing to offer you? Maybe his approach would help you fix any problems that might have arisen from using the Chang method. I'm a big fan of slow practice myself, so I'd be inclined to at least wait a few months and see what kind of progress you make.

[keypeg]

I would not discuss pedagogy with a music teacher, and especially not insist that at teacher should adopt my choice of system, based on the reading of two authors.  A teacher is (should be) an expert in his field, and has come upon his pedagogical system after years of study and probably has experience with numerous students.  I am a trained teacher academically, and I still would not argue pedagogy with my teacher.

If you have decided to leave this teacher, you should thank him for his time and effort, and give advance notice.  You are a source of income and he has to fill your time slot.  He may have a waiting list or it may take time for him to find a replacement.  That is the courteous thing to do.

In looking for a new teacher you should probably discuss your learning philosophies with prospective teachers if you want someone to teach you according to the ideas that you believe will work.

[nyonyo]

Whatever you do, don't lie, that would be dumb. First tell your teacher your concerns. Possibly he/she might be flexible about teaching methods and let you practice the way you want to.

Not everybody is an open minded person. People with big ego, many pianists are, cannot have the dialogue that you suggested. Why make life complicated, just make it simple. Tell the piano teacher what they want to hear and then move on. What will we gain by telling what we feel or think. Why create an uncomfortable situation.

[m19834]

I wonder how often this subject -- the student disagreeing with the pedagogy -- comes up in lessons between student and teacher ?  I am not exactly sure how I would feel if a student of mine came to me and said that they wanted to explore some specific teachings other than what I was giving them, especially if it were based on them having a deeper curiousity or so about learning -- I suspect a large part of me would be a bit thrilled, actually.  It probably partly depends on the individual and how lessons had been going prior to them talking with me about it.  As a teacher, I think I would personally prefer that they actually told me what they were thinking (even if for no other reason than for me to learn from the experience).

If I were the teacher and I wanted to keep the student, I may actually wish to explore the alternative pedagogy with the student.  If I didn't want to keep the student I would wish them the best and usher them to the door  .

In principle, I think that most pedagogical attitudes should be questioned (to an extent) and explored by the student, even if for no other reason than to better grasp what they are supposed to be learning.  If it just comes to student and teacher bumping heads and the interaction is deteriorating, then it's time for a change I would think, and that wouldn't necessarily be a big mystery to either party it seems.

[m19834]

Oh, and I would like to add that I actually think that situations like these have less to do with the precise pedagogy and more to do with the individuals involved.

[Bob]

Just tell your teacher what you want out the lessons, what you see them doing.  Maybe give them a chance to change.

It's your money though.  I'd stop investing in them if they aren't giving you what you want.  The sooner you switch over to a new teacher, the sooner you start making progress in that direction.

[aragonaise]

I would not discuss pedagogy with a music teacher, and especially not insist that at teacher should adopt my choice of system, based on the reading of two authors.  A teacher is (should be) an expert in his field, and has come upon his pedagogical system after years of study and probably has experience with numerous students.  I am a trained teacher academically, and I still would not argue pedagogy with my teacher.

I am not too sure if we should take a dogmatic approach to learning. In fact, I feel this dogmatic approach is what ills the current state of piano education throughout the world. As stressed by Chang (and many others), piano playing shouldn't be too difficult, but the percentage of people who drop out from piano remains unacceptably high. And it is not due to lack of passion. Far too many people are left stranded in the lower reaches of technique, unable to cope with literature like Chopin and Rachmaninov. Playing Chopin and Rach and Liszt is what all pianists should aspire to do! It's like a book reader forever unable to progress beyond abriged versions of classics.

Something is definitely wrong with piano paedegogy, but so far no one has come forward and state his case convincingly. Accepting the paedegogy of your teacher just because he is your teacher is definitely not one of the solutions.

I am also familiar with the academic paedagogy, especially in Math and Physics. Somehow I just find something is rotten there. Why is it that the maths and physics presented at high school level are so devoid of fun and passion and intrigue, when the subjects by themselves are actually not so!

E.g. learning that differentiation and integration, 2 seemingly independent techniques(one deals with gradient, another deals with area) are opposites of each other should be one of the milestones of our mathematical education, but that crucial element of suspense and intrigue is cruelly taken away from high school students. Lack of time is often brought up as an excuse, but to sacrifice passion for the sake of time is sacrilegious.

I am weaned on Feynman's books and just read Bill Bryson's A short history of nearly everything. So, having been influenced by these 2 genius educators, I may come on a bit too strongly here.

[aragonaise]

I wonder how often this subject -- the student disagreeing with the pedagogy -- comes up in lessons between student and teacher ?  I am not exactly sure how I would feel if a student of mine came to me and said that they wanted to explore some specific teachings other than what I was giving them, especially if it were based on them having a deeper curiousity or so about learning -- I suspect a large part of me would be a bit thrilled, actually.  It probably partly depends on the individual and how lessons had been going prior to them talking with me about it.  As a teacher, I think I would personally prefer that they actually told me what they were thinking (even if for no other reason than for me to learn from the experience).

If I were the teacher and I wanted to keep the student, I may actually wish to explore the alternative pedagogy with the student.  If I didn't want to keep the student I would wish them the best and usher them to the door  .

Wow. Can you accept me as a student? I have lots of things to discuss.
With my teacher, I tried hinting him about all these alternative (dare I say progressive) views of CC Chang and Whiteside, but he doesn't seem the least bit interested. I even brought the books to him, but if he had been interested, he would have at least asked some questions.

From my point of view, I find lots of teachers, especially the very experienced ones, have settled into their comfort zones perhaps too cozily, and they are absolutely not interested at any inputs which threaten to overthrow their piano ideas. It's understandable, as there is little demand and too much confusion as to the ONE TRUE correct method.

[aragonaise]

Thanks all for your inputs. I will surely be very symppathetic to his feelings and his schedules, as some of you have pointed out.

Actually, I am learning the Chopin Etude Op 10 No 7. He is stressing on playing it legato, making sure the fingerings give the legato sound. But I find it impossible to play at hummingbird fast, and he again insisted slow playing for a few months is the solution.

So far I've not heard him play. Should I ask him to play it? Common sense dictates that I should, but doesn't it seem a bit rude that I am now judging him based on his performance?

Anyway, most teachers have a ready-made excuse, that they have been so busy teaching that they have not practised their own repertoire for years. Where I am from, most teachers can't really play, and if they do, it's full of wrong notes and not as convincing as I need them to be.

[slobone]

Yes it would be rude, not to mention disrespectful, to ask your teacher to play to prove to you that he knows what he's talking about. "Put up or shut up."

From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you might have trouble with any teacher who tried to get you to do something that wasn't exactly what you want to do. Piano playing is all about discipline, and there's just no way around spending many hours doing stuff that most people would find very boring.

If you're having trouble playing the Chopin Etude up to tempo, my advice would be exactly the same as your teacher's: go back and learn it absolutely perfectly at a slow tempo, then gradually bring the tempo up. And every time you practice it, start with the slow tempo first, until you really can play it all the way through at performance tempo with no mistakes.

[Bob]

I would think the teacher is playing somewhere sometime.  You could hear them then.  If they're not... I would wonder then.  I wonder if a teacher should be teaching beyond what they can play themself.

[aragonaise]

If you're having trouble playing the Chopin Etude up to tempo, my advice would be exactly the same as your teacher's: go back and learn it absolutely perfectly at a slow tempo, then gradually bring the tempo up. And every time you practice it, start with the slow tempo first, until you really can play it all the way through at performance tempo with no mistakes.

Yea! This is the exact advice given by my teacher. Just that the 2 esteemed authors I have been mentioning (Whiteside, CC Chang) have forewarned time and again that you will encounter speed walls if you pump the speed gradually. And I feel strongly (from personal experiences) that slow playing isn't the cure-all for piano playing. At best it is an inefficient way to achieve the goals, at worst a road down the opposite direction.

[slobone]

Well, let's put it this way -- if you have a method that you think is better than your teacher's, then using it during the week. When you get to your lesson, the piece should sound better, right? Your teacher ought to be happy to see you make progress. Most teachers won't put you through an inquisition about your practice methods as long as you're making progress -- it's when you're not getting anywhere that they start investigating what you're doing.

Personally, I don't think there's only one right method. I'll take a good teacher over a good method any day.

[m19834]

I'll take a good teacher over a good method any day.

How does a teacher teach without a method ?  That would be like playing the piano without any technique.  A good teacher has a good method, just like a good pianist has a good technique.  Anyway, teachers choose their methods because of who they are as a person.  Methods reflect philosophical/musical (or lack thereof) views held by the teacher.

[slobone]

How does a teacher teach without a method ?  That would be like playing the piano without any technique.  A good teacher has a good method, just like a good pianist has a good technique.  Anyway, teachers choose their methods because of who they are as a person.  Methods reflect philosophical/musical (or lack thereof) views held by the teacher.

That's quite true, Karli. Perhaps I should have said, If you have a good teacher, by defintion he/she has a good method. I was just advising against choosing a teacher based on your own preference for some particular method.

Incidentally, Mr. Chang, who I don't know much about -- does he have endorsements from famous pianists who learned with his method?

[Bob]

I think Chang is a scientist whose kids studied music. 

And he wrote a book that's freely available on the internet.  Viola!  Popularity. 

He is on this site too though.  Haven't seen him for a long, long time though. 


I would always be skeptical and do my own thinking though.  The teacher has to be on the right level for the student.