When oh when will these devastating Hanon wars end? Oh the humanity! I'm definitely in the pro-Hanon camp, up to a point. I just think of it as exercises to build up strength, dexterity, and for various specific problems like trills and finger extension. But I don't recommend doing it more than about 20 minutes a day.There's no reason to practice Hanon slowly. You should do it as fast as you comfortably can, as long as you're not making a lot of mistakes and your hands don't get too tense or sore. Always use a metronome.If you find it boring you can always do them in different keys, or in triplets (my favorite), or in fours but accenting a different note, or staccato (thanks to whoever it was here who recommended that one).And when you play them, really dig in. Don't be shy. Fast and loud. Otherwise there's not much point.But I agree, no general exercises are going to help you with specific problems in the Mozart.
so...hanon will help me do what? is it just to warm up before playing a piece, or is it to help me gain more dexterity in the overall scheme of things. does it help be able to play scales better? which would be the hanon for scales? and the one for trills? or just the one to help me play mozart. also i disagree with you faulty damper. if i only practice one hour day it's...well horrible. i enjoy practicing and would rather do that than watch tv. besides isn't that required in a conservatory?
Speaking as a well-accomplished pianist - I can play anything, including Hanon exercises, as long as I want to make music playing it - I have learned that playing the piano is either ridiculously easy or impossible. Impossible means I have to practice even when I've "learned" it. Easy means I never have to practice because I've learned it. I can take days to weeks from not playing the piano and still be able to sit down after such a long absence and play as before. In terms of my ability, I've surpassed all of my teachers, some who were/are famous concert pianists, and I make them nervous when they play.I once practiced Hanon, scales and arpeggios for hours a day. 4-6 hours was not uncommon every day of the week. I started Hanon by myself, without instruction from a teacher (as I didn't have a teacher when I started) because Hanon gauranteed virtuosity in 60 easy exercises. It wasn't long before I started to doubt. Pain in my left hand occured every time I exercised my fingers yet curiously my right hand was fine. The television was almost always on during my finger exercise routine.In fact, playing the piano required me to "warm up" in order to play at what I thought was a decent ability. So I did what you probably do to warm up: use Hanon. In fact, after about 15 minutes of those exercises, my fingers felt more nimble and controlled and I could play actual repertoire much easier than if I had played cold, without warming up. There is a physiological reason why this is the case but that's a tangent for a different thread; I'll just say that warming up is only necessary to get the circulation going and Hanon is a poor way to do it.I haven't used Hanon in years and I never will again. I don't practice isolated scales or arpeggios, either. I don't need to warm up because I've learned how to play the piano; I just sit down and play. How contrary this is to then.One skill that I've learned that has helped me accomplish what I've accomplished is the skill of non-stupidity. Stupidity is trying to push open a door that has a sign that reads "PULL TO OPEN". But piano playing never has that sign; you have to figure out how to open it by yourself. The fact that you came to this forum looking for help is your non-stupidity skill (caused by frustration, no doubt) telling you something is wrong.One of my former teachers practices every day with a metronome set out on the piano. He used to be a well-known concert pianist appearing on television and in concert halls around Asia, Europe and the Americas. Now he's old. He doesn't do Hanon anymore (for reasons very obvious to me) but he practices Czerny etudes. He says he has to practice or else his fingers don't work as well. He does this every morning for 45 minutes slowly ramping up the metronome and then works on repertoire. With all that practice he puts in, he doesn't play well, either. And he's also limited to what he can play; he can't play certain repertoire because they are out of his reach. I pity him dearly.But understand that he's from a different era. He came from an era where in order to play the piano, one must do Hanon. One must do scales. One must do arpeggios. One must to Czerny. One must do... for 4-6 hours a day. Where's the music one must do? And yet now, in his late years he still must do. The pianist is judged not on his ability to make music but on his ability to play difficult music. When he sees a score that I'm learning, he doesn't ask what the music is or how it sounds like. He says "that looks difficult". And yet "difficult" never occurs to me. I learn music because I want to make music, not because I want to play the piano. And therein lies the difference between what I've achieved.What you achieve is dependent on your desires. I have fellow pianist who practice 30-40 hours per week and they are the ones who cause me to leave the concert hall. They sound terrible: they bang, they struggle, they panic, they make no music. And yet these pianists practice the most. How can that be when they practice so much? And they say to me, "I never see you practicing."You enjoy practicing? I don't enjoy practicing. My goal has been to practice the least I can get away with. Good luck on your 6 hours per day. Let us know how you are doing when you are in your 70s in your basement slowly ramping up the metronome on your Czerny etudes because you've realized Hanon just doesn't do it anymore.
Talent is a myth.
Talent is every thing!!! You start with certain talent level. One can only develop his or her ability up to the level of talent that they have. People who have no talent to play piano at all will take forever to learn. Oscar, what are you smoking these days? You sound so unrealistic person.
I agree with Oscar if he's saying that talent is something you create, not something you're born with. If you're not willing to work hard at the piano, no one will ever say you're talented.
Of course, two people can work the same amount and one will be much better than the other. Then you can say the first person is more talented. You can only judge by results.
IMO, talent is a concept invented by proud parents/fans and jealous competitors.Yup, thats what I meant, I should have been more specific really.I'd say the first person had better practice methods.
A jealos competitor will never say that his or her opponent is more talented. They will just say that the other person is having more resources. Talent is what everybody wants to have but, unfortunately, we were not born with the same talent. Therefore, those people who are not talented will say" if we work hard enough, we also can be that good".Good luck with your hard work, I'd rather be talented than working hard for something that not sure that can be achieved. If your statement were true, everybody could become Van Gogh, if they worked day and night or become like Richter if they practiced correctly all day long.
You do what you want and I'll do what I want. I'd rather work hard to achieve my goals and be proud of my accomplishments than be lazy and slack off any hard work relying on old wives tales and superstition to get me where I want to be, then blame those same old wives tales and superstitions when I never arrive so as not to have to assume any personal responsibility for my lack of effort.
And a human knows that he or she can achieve practically anything within his or her physical constraints, whether he knows how to or has the means to achieve it or not is another matter.
Elaborate.
Very interesting reply. However, I think you need a very good natural talent to be able to ignore practice. See, you admit yourself other fellow pianists, teachers, etc. do it the other way. Maybe it's not that they're wrong, it's just that your way is different because your abilities are different.
even 'talented' readers have to learn the alphabet. To maintain your talent and to grow to become a great pianist, you have to work hard.
The fundamental needs to be learned, but talented people will be able to progress beyond normal people. That is why there are prodigies. You know and I know that not everybody can play piano well, regardless how much they practice. So the notion that everybody can learn everything if they put their mind is incomprehensible to me.
I dont really believe in talent. Being great at pianoplaying is (to my opinion) mainly a blend of the right circumstances. Its like bodybuilding, but for pianoplaying you do need brains.
I agree with you that piano playing needs a lot of brain power. That is why many of those Asian kids are thriving in piano playing. But, isn't brain equals talent? I have never known dumb person plays piano well. Look at the Van Cliburn Amateur competition, many of them have very high education, many doctors and PhD. However, I know several good pianists do not have high education, not because they are dumb, they are just living in a dream. They think they can become a famous pianist so they spent all their time to practice piano hoping to become a concert pianist. Unfortunately, their talent is not enough to achieve that level.
It doesnt need brain 'power' at all, it just needs a way of thinking and the ability to critically listen to yourself, to recognize problems and deal with them.
When oh when will these devastating Hanon wars end? Oh the humanity!
They have their undisputed value, but shouldn't become the centerpiece of practicing.
These are some of the most naive (to put it kindly) statements that can ever be made under the pretense of ignorance.
Perhaps the language is a little coarse, but could you elaborate on your objections, for my sake? :-)Thanks!
I can understand why many basketball players are tall: they are able to reach the hoop easier than someone who is short. But to make blanket statements that blacks are good at basketball...... and not at hockey or soccer or golf...... because you have to be white to be good at these "white" sports...... because whites can't play table tennis (ping pong)...... because only Asians are good at table tennis...... and playing piano...... because Asians are "smart". "That's why many of those Asian kids are thriving in piano playing." "[Because] piano playing needs a lot of brain power."
I see, I suspected it was primarily the racial generalization. Certainly, (good) piano playing does require a great deal of mental effort, though...
Mental effort should be expended on making music, not playing the piano. However, learning how to play requires much mental effort but once learned, mental effort becomes very minimal. The majority of the effort should then go toward making music.
Pardon my obtuse question, but what, then, do you consider to be functions of the brain?
Isn't it maybe a little bit of both? I've been reading this thread intently for a while. I think Faulty_Damper has many good points. He has found what works for him, and what works for him may work for others, it may not. Just like what Rubinstein, Horowitz, or any of the other greats have done. They can perform remarkable feats, and throughout their lives played pieces magnificently. As far as "brain-power" or a high IQ, I could get into the psychology of it, but my thoughts are this: It does require a certain mental capacity not necessarily to play the piano, but to make music. You have to understand not only the written music but also what the composer intended. As far as actually playing the piano, I think the only "brain-power" that is necessary is the understanding of how your body moves and positions itself, how the hands and arms interact with the keys to achieve the desired outcome without injury. Technically difficult pieces to me are just like puzzles. You have to know how the pieces fit and how to properly connect each piece to solve it. The same can be said of technically difficult pieces of music, such as Liszt's demanding works.
So don't you thinnk it boils down to talent again. People who have talent will be able to figure out all of these aspects so that they can play piano beautifully. Those who have no talent in playing piano will not be able to listen to their playing and improve their playing. How hard a person work, if the talent of playing piano does not exist, I really believe they will not become a good pianist. They just can play mechanically but not musically.
I could read Faulty_Damper replies all day long, he's full of wisdom and writes it down artistically too.However at the end of the day, after listening to him, I still play poorly. Faulty_Damper, if you ever write a book about how to create your own chainsaw and use it, I will be the first one to buy it. Meanwhile, back to the spoon, because I honestly can't find another tool around me.
I have said nothing here about how to become better. I have only digressed to saying simply that if something doesn't work, try something that will. The biggest hurdle to overcome is the mindset. Know that something will work, it’s just not what you’re doing.Even if I were to write a book, it would only be a "feel good" book. Nothing will actually happen except you'll feel better and perhaps understand some abstract concepts that you'd not be able to apply to your own situation. But if a book must be had, I believe C.C. Chang has already written a very good book, Fundamentals of Piano Practice, that can be purchased on Amazon or downloaded online for free.What most people are seeking is not how to improve their disposition with the piano but are seeking emotional support. Misery loves company. And there you have it, a group of miserable people in good company holding a bunch of spoons in the woods.It's also an addiction. People are addicted to their spoons even though they want to quit. How un-willing they are. But isn't that's what SA is for?
Not necessarily. Does a mathematician, a scientist.. heck, anybody... need a specific "talent" to do problem solving? No. That's what figuring out the aspects entails. As far as listening to themselves play, once they have learned properly how to listen, and once they have been trained to listen musically and to pay attention to what they hear while they are playing, then they will be able to make changes to the way that they approach the instrument and the music. Talent, assuming it does exist, speeds this process along. Someone who has a natural inclination to music, someone who naturally possesses a "musical ear" will excel at a faster rate than one who doesn't, just like a mathematician will be able to find the square root of 387 faster than say... an author?