Scriabin progression

[aewanko]

I'm currently considering his beautiful music. I have his etude op. 2 no. 1 but even that is hard. So I'd like to know where to start. BTW, do you think Scriabin is noise? Because when I played a segment of Vers la Flamme, my mom said "Is that music?". Oh man, that is just insulting.

[retrouvailles]

The later part of Scriabin's works gets into the realm of atonal music, which is why that reaction happened.  I wouldn't suggest anything from Op. 56 onward for that reason, for it is a bit harder to understand for interpretative reasons. The technical difficulties go without saying. Check out his Op. 11 preludes for a good place to start. These are from Scriabin's early period and show influence of Chopin and possibly Rachmaninoff. His early waltzes and mazurkas would do nicely as well.

[ahinton]

The later part of Scriabin's works gets into the realm of atonal music,

I know what you mean about the results of his stylistic development, but "atonal" really doesn't come into it; even that so-called "mystic chord" (based on part of the harmonic series) that permeates so much of his later music is tonally based, although the possibilities it opened up are more suggestive of quartal harmony than of triadic harmony.

I wouldn't suggest anything from Op. 56 onward for that reason,

There's no clear-cut border, of course, but this is perhaps about as useful a place as any if one is going to create one.

The technical difficulties go without saying. Check out his Op. 11 preludes for a good place to start. These are from Scriabin's early period and show influence of Chopin and possibly Rachmaninoff.

And fine they are, too although, to be fair, I don't think that Rakhmaninov had achieved enough to exert influence on anyone by the time Skryabin wrote them!

His early waltzes and mazurkas would do nicely as well.

Indeed, if something not too technically demanding is sought as a way into his music. That said, the Op. 74 Five Preludes - his very last completed work - are not of fearsome difficulty and why in any case worry about the reactions of others to a harmonic language with which they appear to be unfamiliar?

Best,

Alistair

[aewanko]

could I start with Preludes, op. 11 preferably, no. 15? I'll go with the slow ones first then the fast ones.

[rimbaud]

could I start with Preludes, op. 11 preferably, no. 15? I'll go with the slow ones first then the fast ones.

No. 15 is my favorite from op. 11... really special.  Op. 9, No. 1 for the left hand is great too.  Have fun! 

[invictious]

Op 11 Preludes are where I started, like no. 9 10 14

His etudes like op.2 no.1 (he wrote it for a girl when he was 16! I'm surprised she didn't marry him on the spot) are a really good starting point too. His works are difficult both in musical and technical terms.

His 5th Sonata is one of the  best things written for piano.

[aewanko]

Op 11 Preludes are where I started, like no. 9 10 14

His etudes like op.2 no.1 (he wrote it for a girl when he was 16! I'm surprised she didn't marry him on the spot) are a really good starting point too. His works are difficult both in musical and technical terms.

His 5th Sonata is one of the  best things written for piano.

I thought he composed Op. 2 no. 1 when he was 13-14?

Can you people also recommend me some sonatas? The "easiest" ones, of course.

[rimbaud]

The second sonata is where most people start methinks.     

[slobone]

Oh good, I accidentally bought a book of the preludes a long time ago without knowing anything about Scriabin. I was sightreading some of the slower ones the other day, and I actually think I can do them...

[dnephi]

1st Sonata is just awesome.  It's cyclically constructed, and the material is organized spectacularly.  In particular, the recapitulation of the first movement is ingenious!

[term]

The later part of Scriabin's works gets into the realm of atonal music, which is why that reaction happened. 

I don't think that atonality as such was the reason, at least i guess it wasnt  Maybe he played the part after 3:53 - that would explain it. The first part is astoundingly beautiful.
I mean i didn't like that second part either at first hearing, but i've come to love it.

[slobone]

I don't think that atonality as such was the reason, at least i guess it wasnt  Maybe he played the part after 3:53 - that would explain it. The first part is astoundingly beautiful.
I mean i didn't like that second part either at first hearing, but i've come to love it.

The whole thing is beautiful. Is this one of the pieces people are describing as atonal? It's nothing of the sort -- there's nothing here you can't hear in Debussy.

[aewanko]

I don't think that atonality as such was the reason, at least i guess it wasnt  Maybe he played the part after 3:53 - that would explain it. The first part is astoundingly beautiful.
I mean i didn't like that second part either at first hearing, but i've come to love it.

My mom didn't like the tremolandos.

[retrouvailles]

Well, there are different degrees of atonality. Scriabin showed just bits here and there of it. Perhaps some of his later music can be said to have a freer tonality, which is what Vers la Flamme has. I didn't mean that Scriabin was atonal the way Schoenberg was (in his 12 tone piano pieces for example, not his chamber symphonies).

[indutrial]

My mom didn't like the tremolandos.

Is your mom a musician?

This is reminding me of a week-long period a few years back when I was studying some really dense and dodecaphonic/sorta-atonal sounding music by Ustvolskaya (some preludes) and Gorecki (sonata for two violins, toccata for two pianos). I was listening to them over and over and driving my girlfriend completely effing nuts with it.

As I've stated before, the best way I've experienced in interacting with Scriabin's work is simply from beginning to end. It's incredible to see how his style evolved from opus to opus. Sounds a bit hokey and OCD-ish, but I prefer that to the "greatest hits" approach of listening.

[mike_lang]

Well, there are different degrees of atonality. Scriabin showed just bits here and there of it. Perhaps some of his later music can be said to have a freer tonality, which is what Vers la Flamme has. I didn't mean that Scriabin was atonal the way Schoenberg was (in his 12 tone piano pieces for example, not his chamber symphonies).

I'm glad you addressed this - it seems that some people find the term atonal to be derogatory, which is absolutely not, and simple, which is not either!

[aewanko]

Is your mom a musician?

no.

I can't do my Scriabin progression for a while because the printer's out of ink and we're running out of paper. I'll just contact our local publisher if they have any Scriabin.

[slobone]

I'm glad you addressed this - it seems that some people find the term atonal to be derogatory, which is absolutely not, and simple, which is not either!

Nor is it terribly precise. And people often confuse it with 12-tone music, which isn't the same thing. It's even possible to write a 12-tone piece that's tonal, as Slonimsky has demonstrated.

[aewanko]

Oh yeah, about his op. 2 no. 1 etude, it's not that hard after all.