Exercises for developing virtuoso technique.

[russda_man]

I have made a plan to become a virtuoso pianist within the next three years (ha!). Can anyone suggest any exercises they think I should be learning to achieve a virtuoso technique? (I am already learning Czerny, which I think are splendid). Any comments would be much appreciated. Cheers.
Russ.

[ryanyee]

start with something easy and slow. then advance to something more technical  and difficult. then when u think u can manage it. chopin etudes...

[kantsuiex]

I also want to do so.....
My flow,
Czerny's etudes=>Chopin's etudes=>Paganini's etudes=> Transcendental Studies..
And I think transcendental studies can consolidate the technique you acquired from chopin etudes..
Also, Liszt etude have many foci on left hand..

But they are really hard,,,, Just keep it up!

[kghayesh]

I also want to do so.....
My flow,
Czerny's etudes=>Chopin's etudes=>Paganini's etudes=> Transcendental Studies..
And I think transcendental studies can consolidate the technique you acquired from chopin etudes..
Also, Liszt etude have many foci on left hand..

But they are really hard,,,, Just keep it up!

There is just so much between those steps
Clementi Etudes (Gradus ad parnassum), Moszkowski Etudes, Brahms 51 Exercises, Debussy Etudes, Rachmaninov Etudes-Tableaux... and many other

[tompilk]

i think you'r forgetting the chopn-godowsky etudes! when you're a fully-fledged virtuoso, remember to play these!

[faulty_damper]

Don't forget to do Hanon: the Virtuoso Pianist.  Guaranteed virtuoso in 60 easy exercises.

[oscarr111111]

Don't forget to actually play some music.

[chopinfan_22]

Don't forget to actually play some music.

Agreed. What's the point of "becoming a virtuoso" when the only pieces you have in the repertoire are the studies you've learned to get there?

[oscarr111111]

Plus, take 2 players:

Both have 'virtuoso technique',

One got there by playing only studies,

One got there by playing only music and addressing technical issues case by case,

The player who learned by playing music and addressing issues case by case will be the better player BY FAR, IE. everything they play will sound better, they'll be able to learn and play harder pieces, they'll probably be able to improvise and compose decently if they were interested in theoretical aspects while learning.  I could go on and on, bottom line is you can't learn to play music without playing music, don't waste years of your life looking for an 'easy alternative' to learning.  On top of all this playing music is just more fun.

[chopinfan_22]

Plus, take 2 players:

Both have 'virtuoso technique',

One got there by playing only studies,

One got there by playing only music and addressing technical issues case by case,

The player who learned by playing music and addressing issues case by case will be the better player BY FAR, IE. everything they play will sound better, they'll be able to learn and play harder pieces, they'll probably be able to improvise and compose decently if they were interested in theoretical aspects while learning.  I could go on and on, bottom line is you can't learn to play music without playing music, don't waste years of your life looking for an 'easy alternative' to learning.  On top of all this playing music is just more fun.

Again... Agreed.

[slobone]

Plus, take 2 players:

Both have 'virtuoso technique',

One got there by playing only studies,

One got there by playing only music and addressing technical issues case by case,

The player who learned by playing music and addressing issues case by case will be the better player BY FAR, IE. everything they play will sound better, they'll be able to learn and play harder pieces, they'll probably be able to improvise and compose decently if they were interested in theoretical aspects while learning.  I could go on and on, bottom line is you can't learn to play music without playing music, don't waste years of your life looking for an 'easy alternative' to learning.  On top of all this playing music is just more fun.

Even with some very famous musicians, you can always spot the ones who played every measure 1000 times with the metronome on vs. the ones who really know how to make music.

[mike_lang]

Even with some very famous musicians, you can always spot the ones who played every measure 1000 times with the metronome on vs. the ones who really know how to make music.

Yes, but the one who knows how to make music may have practiced each measure 1000 times with the metronome in order to have the control to be able to release and make music in the moment of performance.

[tds]

Yes, but the one who knows how to make music may have practiced each measure 1000 times with the metronome in order to have the control to be able to release and make music in the moment of performance.

err..what?

[mike_lang]

err..what?

I.e., we practice for security, and I don't think that extensive practicing (e.g., hundreds of repetitions) and depth of musicality are mutually exclusive.  It is what is going through the mind while practicing that is important - not how many or how few reps.  Schnabel's own son once attempted to reproach him for practicing mechanically, repeating a passage several hundred times, but the maestro's response was "Each time, I play it a little differently."  Evidently the difference was too subtle for junior's ears, but not for those of the master himself. 

I believe we are often too quick to assume that the pianist who repeats a passage over and over again is practicing mechanically.  In order to be secure in performance, for many it is necessary with difficult passages, once having intellectually discovered the proper motions for them, to play them many times in order to engrave them in the muscle memory.  The only way that the result will be unmusical is if the practicer is reading the New York Times during this process.

With regard to Slobone's initial statement, my conclusion is that the two pianists may have practiced just as much (let's remember Sokolov and Richter, both compulsive practicers, who achieve(d) magnificent results), though in one, the artistic musical gift is simply not the same, or the mind was not concentrated on the music during those practice hours.

[tds]

I.e., we practice for security, and I don't think that extensive practicing (e.g., hundreds of repetitions) and depth of musicality are mutually exclusive.  It is what is going through the mind while practicing that is important - not how many or how few reps.  Schnabel's own son once attempted to reproach him for practicing mechanically, repeating a passage several hundred times, but the maestro's response was "Each time, I play it a little differently."  Evidently the difference was too subtle for junior's ears, but not for those of the master himself. 

I believe we are often too quick to assume that the pianist who repeats a passage over and over again is practicing mechanically.  In order to be secure in performance, for many it is necessary with difficult passages, once having intellectually discovered the proper motions for them, to play them many times in order to engrave them in the muscle memory.  The only way that the result will be unmusical is if the practicer is reading the New York Times during this process.

With regard to Slobone's initial statement, my conclusion is that the two pianists may have practiced just as much (let's remember Sokolov and Richter, both compulsive practicers, who achieve(d) magnificent results), though in one, the artistic musical gift is simply not the same, or the mind was not concentrated on the music during those practice hours.

the metronome thing?

[slobone]

I guess I should have said -- with amateur pianists, you can always tell the ones who spent hours with a metronome and never progressed beyond that.

With professionals, it's a bit more difficult. Presumably they know what they're doing or they wouldn't be making recordings. And there may be a stylistic preference not to use too much flexibility in the tempo, in order to be "true to the composer's wishes." But I doubt there are many composers who would have wished that (except Stravinsky, who hated performers and wanted to eliminate them entirely.)

And it's interesting you mention Richter, because one of the things I dislike about him is his rigidity of tempo. Which many people find dazzling.