magic

[tds]

as in supernatural power. do you believe in it or not? any personal encounters?

now i live in an underdeveloped province of a poor country. and i have visited villages and small islands, where people believe and claim to possess supernatural power. in fact, it is a very popular thing here ( is it often the case in poor country, where the impact of modernity is still weak? ) and in many other provinces throughout the country, specially in secluded areas.

people here talk about supernatural power as if it was all real life experience. for instance, "my wife and 2 kids died two years ago. they were attacked by such such magician", "my uncle has a huge turtle who can fly", " i have seen it with my own eyes, such and such magician rose a dead cow", "don't cross that river, there is a spirit of an long dead man in the form of a huge crocodile".

ok. thats a story of what people say. BUT now i am telling what i have seen with my own eyes: i have seen a magician rose a dead chicken; seen a magician put a couple of live fish inside a coconut; seen a magician cut their own tongue and not only did he not die, but after a few seconds, there was not even a trace of wound whatsoever. and of course, things like being told what colour is ur such and such; or ur date of birth; or ur father's name are considered an abc level.

i spent most of my life in the cities, i have traveled abit and lived overseas too. now that i am back in indonesia and live in a poor, quite secluded province, i have decided to spend more time talking and mingling with native people. anyways, i remember the first time they brought up the topic about magic i thought, hmm.. "poor people, they need to see the world and receive more education". weeks, months and years has passed i get used to it. besides after seeing it happening with my own eyes, what should i doubt? yes, i believe in supernatural power. i have seen it and its in the bible too.

i am curious to hear from you guys of what u think, what u have heard of, what u have experienced. and of course i am specially curious to hear from people who live in underdeveloped/poor countries, as it seems that supernaturalism evolves more strongly there.

tds

[chopininov]

No I don't.

[Essyne]

Yes - I know a few psychics, actually - but no deemed "magicians." I think that the extremely spiritually enlightened Beings in Life are just more in tune with their capabilities. In this world, anything's possible (please, now, don't take that out of context in an effort to prove me wrong) until proven impossible. I think that it's ridiculous to rule out something just because you haven't seen it with your own two eyes; after all, how many declared myths and tall tales and things of that variety have proved to exist after all?

And really, does it matter whether or not magicians TRULY exist and whether or not their capabilities can be SCIENTIFICALLY plausable? These Spirits give people who have essentially nothing else in Life something to believe in. We all can learn from that.

[zheer]

as in supernatural power. do you believe in it or not? any personal encounters?

  Yes some people have it, many strange things I've witnesed. I few years back a large wardrobe with its door made from glass for no reason shaterd into tiny little pieces. It was a fairly new wardrobe in perfecr condition with no reaso for it smash. the way it broke was as if someone kicked or punched it.

One day as i was about to go out from the house I picked a 20 pound note from the table and put it into my pocket, half folded. As i walked out the house I re-checked my pocket for the £20 pound note, not only was it in a different pocket, you know that small pocket you get in jeans or trouse where you can only fit a few coins. Well it was in that pocket and folded many times to the point where it was thiner than a pen and totally flat. I checked my other pockets thinking I may have another £20 pound note, but that was the only one, the same one I'd put in my pocket seconds ago.

[G.W.K]

I few years back a large wardrobe with its door made from glass for no reason shaterd into tiny little pieces.

I re-checked my pocket for the £20 pound note, not only was it in a different pocket, you know that small pocket you get in jeans or trouse where you can only fit a few coins. Well it was in that pocket and folded many times to the point where it was thiner than a pen and totally flat. I checked my other pockets thinking I may have another £20 pound note, but that was the only one

There is a fine line between "supernatural" and coinicidence. Although I do not doubt you zheer.

I do believe there is some unusual force in the world, supernatural or magical. However, tds, do you mean supernatural as ghosts, psychic power, tarot and dowsing, etc? Exactly what do you mean by: supernatural?

G.W.K

[tds]

taken from dictionary.com. it should suffice.

su·per·nat·u·ral     
–adjective
1.   of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
2.   of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
3.   of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.
4.   of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.

[G.W.K]

taken from dictionary.com. it should suffice.

su·per·nat·u·ral     
–adjective
1.   of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
2.   of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
3.   of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.
4.   of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.

A simple answer would have sufficed.

G.W.K

[tds]

A simple answer would have sufficed.

copy-paste job is indeed simple

[tds]

God's healing miracles come to mind. seen it in person and on tv.

[queenrock]

I believe in no such things whatsoever. I have seen nothing notable myself which could be considered supernatural. Most people believe these things because they want to and think of things as being amazing when they really are not.

One day as i was about to go out from the house I picked a 20 pound note from the table and put it into my pocket, half folded. As i walked out the house I re-checked my pocket for the £20 pound note, not only was it in a different pocket, you know that small pocket you get in jeans or trouse where you can only fit a few coins. Well it was in that pocket and folded many times to the point where it was thiner than a pen and totally flat.

There is nothing amazing about this at all really you could have easily just folded it differently or did it without thinking about it, but you wish to believe something more interesting happened.

So many examples of supposed 'miracles' can be disproved.

These Spirits give people who have essentially nothing else in Life something to believe in. We all can learn from that.

I agree with that, but will never be able to believe it myself.

[thalbergmad]

https://www.thescoleexperiment.com/book_00.htm

Interesting experiments

[enderw20]

Definatly, I had a similar experience with a wardrobe, except i saw four kids go into one and get transported to another magical world where numerous adventures and hijinks ensued.  There is no way something like that could get made up.

[concerto_love]

A little believe... In fact, I can saw those who already death when I was 10 years old. Now, I can't see them, but still, I can feel their presence somehow...

[communist]

i know its real i have magical/divine powers of my own but i will not tell you the secret




but in all seriousness alot of things like that have logical explanations

[enderw20]

A little believe... In fact, I can saw those who already death when I was 10 years old. Now, I can't see them, but still, I can feel their presence somehow...

I see dead people

[concerto_love]

My friends at school have ability to see the future from dream... She also have a good talent in tarot, astrology and other... Wow... ^^

[G.W.K]

I see dead people

I can tell you are one of these wonderful, delightfully happy people that PianoStreet is desperate for.

G.W.K

[horizontal]

after all, how many declared myths and tall tales and things of that variety have proved to exist after all?

None.

[Essyne]

occult.

Now why oh WHY did they have to throw that in there? Hopefully people will not think that they mean The Occult. . . that's always bothered me.

[tds]

spam

[tanman]

ooh ooh... religious thread. are you just bumping this for pianistimo to answer?

[pianistimo]

thanks, tanman, for recognizing that magic is as religious a topic as christianity.  there are many religions!  i watched the video of the man who tapped his 'chi' - and don't doubt that he possessed some power in his body.  believe it or not, God endowed all humans with a huge electrical box called the heart.  nobody knows how or why our hearts beat excepting that the first big shock was sent into Adam's heart and it passed on through every living being - in conjunction with breath.  as i see 'life and breath' - the interpretation might also be - electricity and breath.  we're not robots, but live human beings with the capacity for much more than we are given credit for sometimes.  for instance, we all have a nervous system and we know that certain things stimulate our nervous system and there are actual nerve centers and pressure points. these are proven true and do not disprove that there is a God.  the sad thing is that the amount of time spent by non-christians meditating could put christians to shame.  if christians meditated and prayed as much as this man - they could easily overpower his magic with the God's healing power available from the Holy Spirit - which is the strongest power available to man and turned down simply for the fact that Christ never made it a difficult formula to get.  that ANY person can have this power if they desire to 'seek God.'

the bible says that one cannot have two masters.  either you will love the one and hate the other or visa-versa.  in the bible it says that money is the ONLY other option.  it doesn't even mention magic.  But, in Paul's time - those who were angry at Christians were angry because their miracles were causing the 'business of magic' to go down the tubes.  and, of course, they were exposed as frauds and fakes when it came to delivering any kind of salvation or blessing to those who were supposedly healed.  you'll notice that whenever Jesus Christ healed someone - they were not asked for money.  it was a totally FREE thing - and Jesus was totally interested in that person being healed and having good in their life.  At the same time, however, Jesus Christ rebuked evil spirits because they can appear to look good or have good intentions - but at the end - posess or cause a person to do damage to themselves.  to go beyond the normal natural abilities of humanity one too many times.  it wears a person down - because we are all human and all will die.  even the magicians.  then...what power does a magician have when he/himself or herself dies?  none?  God has the power over death!

there is a place in the bible where God describes how the wicked will end up.  he says that 'worms will eat their flesh.'  This indicates to me that however much power that men have on the earth today - that power is quite limited in the hereafter.  they may have a huge following here - but tommorrow it's gone.  it's a 'show.'  that's my opinion and belief. 

ps  the book of matthew mentions that if we have even a grain or mustard seed of faith- that we can move mountains.  i asked my husband why i don't see mountains moved all the time - and he said that the context is speaking of lack of faith.  that if people believed God is/was/and is to come - they would live differently and things would be so much different.  That God sees our problems as minor - becuase He has ALL the power.  If only we would recognize where the source of power comes from!  He can solve all the problems of the world.

[pianistimo]

can i add a ps?

i'd like to also say that ancient methods of healing - and even modern is not 'evil' in itself.  but, giving a physician ALL the credit is different that praising God who is the ultimate healer.  joseph, of the bible, was a physician.  he even wrote a book about 'what works' in terms of different problems.  and joseph was a righteous man.  so...the bible is quite interesting in terms of allowing a person to scientifically discover medicine - and things that help healing.  but, who made the medicine (even before it's mixed?) - God!  aloe vera is a healing plant for wounds.  who made it?  God.  sewing skin together is nice - but who makes the skin knit back together? God.  same with bones.  that's how i understand it.

[thalbergmad]

Well, we had three days before the dementia returned, so i guess we should be thankful for that.

Thal

[dnephi]

I believe in prestidigitation for fun and profit.

Cheers!

Daniel

[tds]

I believe in prestidigitation for fun and profit.

Cheers!

Daniel

so do most of us, methinks. who doesn't like money?

almost all shows employ tricks. and many self proclaimed psychics or magicians are quacks. there are however a few who indeed possess supernatural power.

[pianistimo]

they don't have power over death.  that is the highest power.  they have what the bible terms 'a form' of it.  but it's not the real thing.  even the highest magician around the apostles time (simon peter magus) wanted to buy the holy spirit because he knew it was more powerful than anything he possessed.  and, he had quite a large following before and after his death.  but, he died.  now where is he?  nobody knows how God will judge them - but the bible says that magic is a form of disrespect to God because it is impostering the power of God.

[concerto_love]

magic.... >.<

[thalbergmad]

but the bible says that magic is a form of disrespect to God because it is impostering the power of God.

Todays magic is tomorrows science.

2,000 odd years ago when your ficticious book was written, much more would have been considered magic as they did not have the brainpower to recognise it as anything else.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

so...the bible is quite interesting in terms of allowing a person to scientifically discover medicine - and things that help healing. 

If that is the only book you are capable of reading, then i guess you might find it interesting.

Regretfully, there exist some crackpots that refuse modern treatment and put themselves in the hands of God. They are the ones that die quicker.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

believe it or not, God endowed all humans with a huge electrical box called the heart.  

It is a shame he did not endow us all with a brain.

What has fictional characters like Adam got to do with subject of magic??

Thal

[ahinton]

believe it or not, God endowed all humans with a huge electrical box called the heart.

And in so saying it is plainly evident that you have caused Thal to blow a fuse or three...

nobody knows how or why our hearts beat

To be fair, I think that cardiac surgeons do (and I'd be a mite worried if they didn't)...

excepting that the first big shock was sent into Adam's heart and it passed on through every living being - in conjunction with breath.  as i see 'life and breath' - the interpretation might also be - electricity and breath.  we're not robots, but live human beings with the capacity for much more than we are given credit for sometimes.  for instance, we all have a nervous system and we know that certain things stimulate our nervous system and there are actual nerve centers and pressure points. these are proven true and do not disprove that there is a God.  the sad thing is that the amount of time spent by non-christians meditating could put christians to shame.  if christians meditated and prayed as much as this man - they could easily overpower his magic with the God's healing power available from the Holy Spirit - which is the strongest power available to man and turned down simply for the fact that Christ never made it a difficult formula to get.  that ANY person can have this power if they desire to 'seek God.'

the bible says that one cannot have two masters.  either you will love the one and hate the other or visa-versa.  in the bible it says that money is the ONLY other option.  it doesn't even mention magic.  But, in Paul's time - those who were angry at Christians were angry because their miracles were causing the 'business of magic' to go down the tubes.  and, of course, they were exposed as frauds and fakes when it came to delivering any kind of salvation or blessing to those who were supposedly healed.  you'll notice that whenever Jesus Christ healed someone - they were not asked for money.  it was a totally FREE thing - and Jesus was totally interested in that person being healed and having good in their life.  At the same time, however, Jesus Christ rebuked evil spirits because they can appear to look good or have good intentions - but at the end - posess or cause a person to do damage to themselves.  to go beyond the normal natural abilities of humanity one too many times.  it wears a person down - because we are all human and all will die.  even the magicians.  then...what power does a magician have when he/himself or herself dies?  none?  God has the power over death!

there is a place in the bible where God describes how the wicked will end up.  he says that 'worms will eat their flesh.'  This indicates to me that however much power that men have on the earth today - that power is quite limited in the hereafter.  they may have a huge following here - but tommorrow it's gone.  it's a 'show.'  that's my opinion and belief. 

ps  the book of matthew mentions that if we have even a grain or mustard seed of faith- that we can move mountains.  i asked my husband why i don't see mountains moved all the time - and he said that the context is speaking of lack of faith.  that if people believed God is/was/and is to come - they would live differently and things would be so much different.  That God sees our problems as minor - becuase He has ALL the power.  If only we would recognize where the source of power comes from!  He can solve all the problems of the world.

Plus

ça


change...



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c'est





la






même







chose...

Best,

Alistair

[frigo]

Magic=ignorance

How pretencious can someone BE, to think that he has the total knowledge of the NATURAL things to declare that something is SUPERNATURAL?
That's something I can only answer with: ignorance. Science has been proving over time that myths have a perfectly reasonable and natural explanation! Think that something is supernatural is just to think that this something has no explanation at all, and this isn't what we can call TO THINK. Think is find an explanation that the nature itself aproves, that experiment complements, it is NOT with inventions caused only by human imagination that we'll get to know more about the universe, physics has proved to be MUCH MORE productive in terms of our well-being, but think that all universe is totally opened for our study and this study is at the moment revealing everything we can know about universe, is just too pretencious and most defining of IGNORANCE.

[ahinton]

What has fictional characters like Adam got to do with subject of magic??

The answer to that is presumably dependent upon the extent to which anyone might perceive a parallel between magic and fiction but, that said, we cannot be absolutely certain that the Adam referred to here was necessarily fictional as such, even if it may reasonably be argued that fiction has been written around him. Incidentally, had I been Adam, I would doubtless have spoilt the entire legend by declaring that I don't much care for apples at the best of times and I would presumably have then to be persuaded otherwise by Eve making a delicious tarte tatin; still, I wasn't Adam, so that was fiction too...

Best,

Alistair

[a-sharp]

I believe in the power of the mind

[concerto_love]

I believe that music's really a magic 

[frigo]

Physically, it's possible that the Universe has much more dimensions than the 4 we usualy refer (x, y, z, t). But humans only have the perception of this 3 spacial dimensions and 1 time dimension.

Imagine an ant in a piece of paper that can only see the two dimensional world that the paper shows. When something like a cube  (3 dimensions) stands in the piece of paper, the ant will only see the effects (the paper goind down with the weight of the cube, p. ex.) The ant, limited by its two dimensional view of the world, will not understand what's happening and, if this ant is so stupid as an human, it will say that the cause is supernatural.

The same happens with humans... As we can't see more than this 3 spacial dimensions, everything that happens in the real world (some scientist say that there can be up to 11 dimensions...) and has some effect in this 3 dimensions we see, we have no explanation at all to the happening, but that is perfectly natural.

One possible explanation for magic.