How would you know if your teacher is good?

[db05]

...And how do you find a great or good teacher? I don't want to insinuate that mine is bad. (But I still hope she doesn't read this.) I just want to know if there's something I'm missing, and what I can do about it.

It's been bothering me lately, since I'm taking piano lessons included in a music course, I have to follow the curriculum. It's nice that I got a teacher I get along with now, but everyone teaches the same stuff: Hanon, scales and arpeggios, Czerny, Bach, Sonatina, piece (if you're good and/or lucky) and in that same order, too.

I wonder if this is exactly why I'm not progressing a lot. Like if I have to play all the Bach pieces from easiest to hardest, and say, finish one per month (that's the fastest I have done so far), it would take me, 7-8 years before I get to the Well-Tempered Clavier. And there is no sign that I would play anything by Chopin anytime soon. But if I try to hurry up and cut the time spent in each piece/ exercise, it wouldn't sound good.

I wonder about those people that can an "easy" Sonata and/or Chopin/ Lizst/ Beethoven in a year. How do they make those sound good without studying Hanon and Czerny for 2 years? What about the people who win competitions after months of study while their competitors studied for years? It can't be just talent or just the teacher. How and what are they taught? And how do they practice? Not that I want to compete, but, aren't each of us a human with 5 fingers each hand and a brain in his head? So what's the big difference?

[a_vampire_knight]

I for one, feel that a teacher has a very important role to play here. I've been learning how to play the keyboard for a six years now, and my fastest learning rate has been the last year. I switched from playing the keyboard to playing the piano. I developed a certain interest that made me literally love music. Anyhow, I think if you buy books of your level and a little higher and show a little diversity in the composers you choose, your repertoire can be waay interesting. Moreover, the way you've started is according to me the best. Hanons and scales are very important. It will speed up many things and you can progress in one direction unlike me who had keep going back to them when I got stuck with a few pieces. You can pick up Alfred's Graded books so that you get the pieces of your level.. not easier not tougher.. And you definitely need an amazing teacher. And the way to know if you've found what you're looking for, is if you think that you are really enjoying your piano lessons..

Haha.. And i think it wouldnt take you that long to play the Well-tempered Clavier!! ^^ Be optimistic!!
 And yes.. you can play different pieces.. every composer or mostly every have different levels.. from intermediate to advanced.. do you require a list of pieces?

[nyonyo]

There are many different kinds of piano teachers. The majority are those who do what you mentioned, Hanon, Scale, Duvernoy, Czerny, Burgmuller, etc. They will make you to learn every single piece in those books. It took you forever to even introduce to, say, Fur Elise. Three of my sisters had this kind of teacher. None of the teachers of my sisters taught them how to play with expression etc. Basically, be a ROBOT. None of my sisters enjoyed learning playing the piano. On the other hand, I had a different style of teacher. In addition, I was also a proactive person. I did not just sit and do nothing. If I do not like certain thing, i try to fix it.

You have to try different kinds of teachers. My advice is that do not take lesson from an inexpensive teacher. Generally, they are inexperience teacher. I really believe, when comes to taking piano lesson, that you get what you pay. A concert pianist will usually speed up the process, they usually know how to skip unnecessary things. A neighborhood piano teacher will usually stick to certain curriculum, usually, they are not a great pianist, and do not have a big repertoire list. Therefore, the easiest is just to stick to certain curiculum, anyway, they think you know nothing.

Your parents need to be the one who should find a good teacher. It is too difficult for you to deal with choosing and firing teacher. I assume you are not an adult. If you are an adult, you can do it yourself.

This is my way of finding good teacher:

1. Call the Steinway dealer in your area.
2. Tell them that you are interest in buying a Steinway, but you also need a piano teacher.
3. Ask them to give a list of their Steinway artists who teach. (not all of Steinway artists teach).
4. Ready to pay big buck, but you will have a world class quality teacher.
5. Don't think that you need to stick with the teacher, if you find that you do not like the teacher, you should  move on to the next in the list. Since you have the list, you can try another one. Make sure you get as many names as possible. Then google the teachers. Read their bio, contact the one whom you like.
6. This is what I did, and my current piano teacher is the best teacher that I have ever had. He really knows how to teach and also play. He has world class experience. But I have to pay $80 per hour. Actually, he is not extremely expensive and it is not cheap also, at least for me. The only problem with him is that he is hungry of my money. It is so obvious that he needs money.

One last thing that I want to mention, many teachers from Russia are very good teachers. But be careful some of them are not piano major. They are singers etc, so don't get fooled. I had two of them in the past. Teachers from China are very good too. They are usually cheaper.

Good luck.

[a_vampire_knight]

This is my way of finding good teacher:

1. Call the Steinway dealer in your area.
2. Tell them that you are interest in buying a Steinway, but you also need a piano teacher.
3. Ask them to give a list of their Steinway artists who teach. (not all of Steinway artists teach).
4. Ready to pay big buck, but you will have a world class quality teacher.
5. Don't think that you need to stick with the teacher, if you find that you do not like the teacher, you should  move on to the next in the list. Since you have the list, you can try another one. Make sure you get as many names as possible. Then google the teachers. Read their bio, contact the one whom you like.
6. This is what I did, and my current piano teacher is the best teacher that I have ever had.

Your method sounds super-cool!!^^

 So its not only Steinway, is it? You can ask any other distributors and dealers?.. çause there isn't any Steinway dealer in my area...

[quasimodo]

If you're good, then your teacher is good enough.
If you suck, change teacher (... or give up piano).

[db05]

Haha.. And i think it wouldnt take you that long to play the Well-tempered Clavier!! ^^ Be optimistic!!
 And yes.. you can play different pieces.. every composer or mostly every have different levels.. from intermediate to advanced.. do you require a list of pieces?

LOL, yes! I have several pieces/ books I inherited from my uncle. Most all of them are beyond my level and there are no methods, except for a Schaum H - Grey book...

It's just overwhelming, sometimes downright discouraging to know there's so much to learn.


nyonyo:

There are many different kinds of piano teachers. The majority are those who do what you mentioned, Hanon, Scale, Duvernoy, Czerny, Burgmuller, etc. They will make you to learn every single piece in those books. It took you forever to even introduce to, say, Fur Elise. Three of my sisters had this kind of teacher. None of the teachers of my sisters taught them how to play with expression etc. Basically, be a ROBOT. None of my sisters enjoyed learning playing the piano. On the other hand, I had a different style of teacher. In addition, I was also a proactive person. I did not just sit and do nothing. If I do not like certain thing, i try to fix it.

You're lucky. The main reason, I think, that I don't end up like a robot on the piano is that I started on guitar with this awesome teacher. Neigborhood teacher, the cheapest you could find, and I was lucky to have him. A bit disorganized, though, since he had no curriculum.

I don't think expensive teachers are necessarily better, but then it must be because I live in another part of the globe. (I don't know any Steinway dealer here...   Only pianos I know that are sold are Yamaha and 2nd hand Kawais, and I'm studying at Yamaha already...) And guitar teachers aren't necessarily better either, but they are more open to diversity. I had a concert artist teach me for 5 sessions (my old teacher was on vacation) and he stuck to the curriculum, too. But I have to admit that was the biggest improvement, must be a psychological thing because the previous one was too strict.

Now that I think about it, I don't progress so fast at guitar either, piece-wise. I just seem to play better, with a bit more confidence and expression. I don't seem to achieve that in piano. My problem with guitar is that I looooooove piano, and guitar lessons are too disorganized for me... And my first teacher just left for another country.   He needed the money.

[a_vampire_knight]

Àlright I'll list down a few for you.. Just that I don't give you the wrong level.. Tell me a few songs that you paly.. so I'll know exactly the level you're looking for.

[nyonyo]

I do not know with Yamaha or Kawai. Fortunately, in the States, at least in the big cities, there is always Steinway dealer.

About expensive teacher, it is usually true that expensive teachers are better teacher. Otherwise, nobody will pay him or her.

[db05]

Àlright I'll list down a few for you.. Just that I don't give you the wrong level.. Tell me a few songs that you paly.. so I'll know exactly the level you're looking for.

-from first lessons in Bach  - Minuet in G, Minuet in Gm, Minuet in G (in short, the first three pieces)
-still working on Clementi Sonatina in C Op. 36 No. 1

[m19834]

About expensive teacher, it is usually true that expensive teachers are better teacher. Otherwise, nobody will pay him or her.

It really depends on how you pay  .  Many people believe that if you pay more money for a teacher that they must be automatically better than the other, and there are some circumstances surrounding that which may actually perpetuate the myth.  But none of that really matters.

What really matters is how you are being helped along in three main areas :

1.  Musical awareness and strategy of learning a piece (this includes many things).
2.  Knowledge regarding the instrument itself (this also includes many things).
3.  Knowledge regarding how the body is best used in order to incorporate the above two factors in physical demonstration.

There would also be some personal growth mixed in with the learning !

[a_vampire_knight]

Alright! So these are perfect for you...

Jaywalk- Antony Le Fleming
Restless Moment- Samuil Maikapar
Tango( Habanera) - Matyas Seiber
Bourrée HWV 363a- George Frederic Handel
German Dance WoO13 no.6- Ludwig van Beethoven
Canzonetta op.  183 4/2 - Carl Reinecke
Waltz- Belá Bartók
New Orleans- David Cullen

And trust me, it does frustrate m at times that there is so much to learn.. bu then again.. it can't be helped.. it'll take time and effort!! and ofcourse perseverance..

[db05]

And trust me, it does frustrate m at times that there is so much to learn.. bu then again.. it can't be helped.. it'll take time and effort!! and ofcourse perseverance..

Thanks a lot!
Oh and watch out for typos.

[lostinidlewonder]

Some teachers are employed by musical institutions who force them to teach a Syllabus set by the school. A good school will give you a vast choice and not force you to do a few select pieces, unfortunately you get some school who teach everyone the same way with the same music, it is not necessarily your teachers fault but the other in power of the syllabus.

I do not agree with getting the most expensive teacher. There are a lot of basic and intermediate skills that any teacher can teach you. You might save thousands of dollars learning the basics first from any teacher, then searching for a better teacher once you are ready for more. I say this to early beginners who want to learn with me, they are better off learning the basics from someone else cheaper then come to me once they can read the notes and play a few pieces. If the method of learning your music is not understood then its not worth getting a good teacher who teaches you a more efficient method. It is actually good to learn in an inefficient beginners mind then you will understand what it means to improve your practice.

Here are some good measuring sticks to determine if you have a good teacher

1) Look at the pieces you have been learning, do they all highlight something different or are they constantly repeating the same ideas? If they repeat the same ideas question whether these too easy for you. If they are and nothing is changing in your lessons, you have an inefficient study program. Doing a ever single piece in a volume of Czerny (or years and years on any other one composer) is ridiculous imo, you can always go back and do it if they interest you that much.

2)If you take in music you would really like to learn and your teacher makes time in lesson and also increase the learning rate for you to learn it.

3) What is the method your teacher is using for you to learn your music? Are they helping you to memorize your music or merely making you do brute force repetitions, only focusing on fingering and dynamics? A good teacher will help you visualize your music, help you to memorize it, help you to understand it, they will talk in a lot of words describing pattern. If you find you are mindlessly repeating phrases and they scrutinize only a finger number, it's not enough. They shouldn't say only "Use 4th finger here", they should say"Use 4th finger because this controls this entire group of notes, or prepares you to do this or that etc" There is always a logical reasoning behind the fingering not just the numbers. This is the same for their advice adjusting technique.

4) They should focus on Technique, Memory work and Sight reading work. Too many teachers do not separate these. I don't like the idea of teaching all three with the same piece, if you find this is happening ensure that it is effective enough for you. I personally do not find for example teaching sight reading with pieces you are trying to master very effective.

5) Ensure that you teacher is stretching your ability. I do not like the idea of everything being controlled and perfect all the time. Some teachers will not let a student move on until something is done picture perfect. I like teachers who move on and let you mull over your problems yourself. Often you will solve them automatically after a period of time. So I find it a waste of time if a teacher works on a single idea over and over again until you master it, teachers should be confident to show a student path then be happy they will travel on that in their time. The student should also feel confident they can solve the problem themselves eventually.

6) Your lessons should be enjoyable, you should feel encouraged every time you are in the lesson. The teacher should excite you to do more work, the teacher should make studying piano exciting and wonderful. Any negativity, indifference, inability to deal with your failure/lack of practice etc is not fun to deal with. A good teacher knows how to discipline you giving your encouragement to work harder if you have been lazy.

7) You should feel a sense of responsibility/pride for the work your teacher sets you.  If you are not excited to show the work you have done that your teacher sets you, this is no good. If you do not respect the pieces they have agreed to set you then you are somewhat disabled to fully understanding what they are trying to teach you. What they are trying to teach you might in fact be not what you are interested in.
       A very recent example of this happened to me recently, I had a student who came to me who was taught by a "Jazz" teacher and she really wanted to learn Classical. This is an unusual case for me because usually its the other way around (a classically trained who really just wants to learn the "Jazz" style). But she worked with this teacher for over a year yet all that was taught was not really appreciated because it wasn't what she wanted and thus a lot of it will be wasted because of lack of application.
       I have also had students come to me who cringe at the mention of Classical music. Then I find their hatred for this music has come because of countless hours spent on early exercises all sounding like C major scales! So I really find if the student is not enjoying the music they are learning and have no respect for it but only negative thoughts, then the teacher has given them the wrong music. There is absolutely nothing wrong with learning music that might be boring for you, but certainly it shouldn't contribute to a majority of the pieces you learn!

[keypeg]

Lostin ...... can that be framed and hung over the mantlepiece? (Where can I get a mantlepiece)  Perfectly put, and appreciated by this particular student.   

[db05]

Interesting, especially 3), 4) and 5).

I'd also want to hang it, not framed though, because that's expensive.    Very much appreciated.

[concerto_love]

if he/she only wants us to play a piece, and doesn't teach basics very good, he/she's the bad one...

[rc]

Some good posts, I like Karli's 3 points.

My thoughts:

I like my previous teacher and don't mean to diss him, but the truth is that I felt I had higher standards for myself going in than he did for me.  When I'm catching more of my mistakes than my teacher, I began to feel it was time to move on.  I actually think that his lower standards may have dragged me down a bit

I feel my current teacher is good, because she hears and sees things that I'm completely missing - she expects more of me, and so I want to rise to that expectation.

[faulty_damper]

One sure sign that your teacher is good: You don't question him.

Or in other words: You trust him.  Learning will not take place unless there is trust, either in the teacher or yourself.  But, caveat emptor, that trust can be misplaced.  Caveat emptor.

[nyonyo]

Some good posts, I like Karli's 3 points.

My thoughts:

I like my previous teacher and don't mean to diss him, but the truth is that I felt I had higher standards for myself going in than he did for me.  When I'm catching more of my mistakes than my teacher, I began to feel it was time to move on.  I actually think that his lower standards may have dragged me down a bit

I feel my current teacher is good, because she hears and sees things that I'm completely missing - she expects more of me, and so I want to rise to that expectation.

He might have heard your mistakes, but he chose not to mention the mistakes.
Why?

1. He is lazy.
2. He does not think that you can fix the problem.

I will do the same if I have this kind of teacher. He, at least, needs to mention whether we can fix it or not is our problem.

[db05]

I like my previous teacher and don't mean to diss him, but the truth is that I felt I had higher standards for myself going in than he did for me.  When I'm catching more of my mistakes than my teacher, I began to feel it was time to move on.  I actually think that his lower standards may have dragged me down a bit

Same here, although I think I also have a problem being perfectionist. My teacher may not tell me my mistakes for a number of reasons:
1. she knows that I know I'm making a mistake, and trust that I can fix it on my own
2. so we can move on to the next piece
3. she doesn't think I can fix it... I hope this is not true...
4. to avoid hurting my feelings... crazy because I would find mistakes even if she doesn't mention them and will be frustrated anyway.

Just some thoughts.

I lose my trust for my teachers sometimes, but not totally. I still think it's better to study with them than on my own, as I am a perfectionist as I said, and my mind tends to wander off. Focus. I need someone to help me focus and organize my study.

[faulty_damper]

He might have heard your mistakes, but he chose not to mention the mistakes.
Why?

1. He is lazy.
2. He does not think that you can fix the problem.

Such pessimism!

As a teacher I wouldn't point out every mistake if I know he knows he made them.  It doesn't require a teacher to be Master of the Obvious.  Pointing out every obvious mistake wastes time that can be better spent.

As a student, I wouldn't want obvious mistakes pointed out because I already know I made them.

[dorfmouse]

How would you know if your teacher is good?

You leave your lesson feeling joyful and empowered to achieve your musical goals.
You can't wait to get back to the instrument.

[db05]

He might have heard your mistakes, but he chose not to mention the mistakes.
Why?

1. He is lazy.
2. He does not think that you can fix the problem.

Such pessimism!

As a teacher I wouldn't point out every mistake if I know he knows he made them.  It doesn't require a teacher to be Master of the Obvious.  Pointing out every obvious mistake wastes time that can be better spent.

As a student, I wouldn't want obvious mistakes pointed out because I already know I made them.

My thoughts exactly. Teachers aren't THAT bad.

...Except schoolteachers, they get really tired after a while and just want to get over with... Half the reason why I gave up traditional schooling.

Music teachers are cool. I should just be content that I get to learn piano and music.

[faulty_damper]

My thoughts exactly. Teachers aren't THAT bad.

...Except schoolteachers, they get really tired after a while and just want to get over with... Half the reason why I gave up traditional schooling.

I've come to a preliminary conclusion that most teachers don't know exactly what skills their students should be developing.  In math, reading, writing, art, music, & physical education, it's very obvious what the skills are because they can be clearly demonstrated.  But what about history, science, psychology, etc?  What are the skills that can be demonstrated in these subjects?  Is it an intellectual skill?  If so, what kind of intellectual skill?

But purpose is something most people don't understand, teachers and students, alike.  What is the purpose of playing the piano? (To make music.)  Then why do so many aspiring pianists aspire to be pianists and not musicians?  This is exactly the same mentality of those who want to speak a foreign language instead of being able to communicate using that language.  Anyone can learn a few phrases and speak a foreign language but not everyone who speaks a foreign language can communicate using it.  Just as in music, not everyone pianist is a musician.

[db05]

I've come to a preliminary conclusion that most teachers don't know exactly what skills their students should be developing.  In math, reading, writing, art, music, & physical education, it's very obvious what the skills are because they can be clearly demonstrated.  But what about history, science, psychology, etc?  What are the skills that can be demonstrated in these subjects?  Is it an intellectual skill?  If so, what kind of intellectual skill?

But purpose is something most people don't understand, teachers and students, alike.  What is the purpose of playing the piano? (To make music.)  Then why do so many aspiring pianists aspire to be pianists and not musicians?  This is exactly the same mentality of those who want to speak a foreign language instead of being able to communicate using that language.  Anyone can learn a few phrases and speak a foreign language but not everyone who speaks a foreign language can communicate using it.  Just as in music, not everyone pianist is a musician.

Even in math and reading, too often teachers lose sight of the purpose, which is BASIC LITERACY. I find people who can add, subtract, multiply and divide in isolation, but are unable to solve simple word problems, even if translated to the native language. Many more can read english, but don't understand what those words mean when put together.

After learning almost nothing in three years of high school, I've learned not to expect much from myself and my teachers. Good teachers are rare, and the traditional school system helps little. Music education is great, because there is individualized learning.

English is my second language, I learned it in grade school. If I am communicating well, you tell me...

Music is my third language, I can barely understand it.

Yes, I want to be a pianist AND a musician.