"Dabblers"-Your opinion?

[donjuan]

What's a native?

Well, it depends on where you live.  You see, I live in Canada.  Before other cultures came here to claim land, there was a group of indiginous people (natives) who were believed to come over the Bering Strait.  The white settlers came and sort of took over the place, but they felt bad for the natives and offered them land, made various acts to keep them happy, and so forth.  

Nowadays, Descendents of these Natives in Canada receive large areas of land reserves to live on, and they get many government priveliges:  Some people from a certain tribe receive 250 000$ canadian JUST FOR GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL!!!

They get all kinds of money from the government...
However, they have a bit of a drinking problem..  YOu see, the whites brought over alcohol when they first came to Canada.  Natives havent evolved very well to take their liqour very well, so they end up getting drunk and addicted really quickly.

So here we have these natives, receiving much of our tax dollars for them to blow on drugs and booze.  Many people hate natives and develp stereotypes of them.

I wont lie, I believe these stereotypes only because I havent had a single good experience with a native.  

I am tired of our tax dollars going to them- They tend to be lazy and I read in a newspaper that more than 95% of these natives drop out of high school.

Im tired of paying to keep these guys alive in soup kitchens- I say we eliminate all special treatment and make them be like every one else.


Sorry for voicing my strongly Capitalist opinions, I hope you now understand what a "native" is.

donjuan

[ayahav]

I can't help but question whether you are missing one important fact...

White men and women, and black men and women, and yellow men and women, and really everyone else who is homeless and on the street can go to a soup kitchen... They aren't made especially for natives, they're made for homeless people (at least in most countries in the world....)

[squinchy]

Hm..I see..

While white people brought liquor to the natives, didn't the natives introduce white people to tobacco?

And there's a kid in my Western Civ. class who's trying to prove that he's part Native American so he can go to any college he wants to for free. That's ridiculous! He's dumb as a rock, yet rich as a spoiled little rich kid.

But back on topic.

In music class today, people basically sat around, did homework, and fiddled with the keyboards...Fur Elise does NOT go with the gunshot tone!!

I was practicing my pieces

[donjuan]

I can't help but question whether you are missing one important fact...

White men and women, and black men and women, and yellow men and women, and really everyone else who is homeless and on the street can go to a soup kitchen... They aren't made especially for natives, they're made for homeless people (at least in most countries in the world....)

But you see, there are many whites, blacks, and yellows that have worked hard, earned money, and contributed to society.  Finding natives in good homes, with stable jobs, NOT drinking is really rare..  I will stop having such disrespect once I meet someone who changes my mind and proves the stereotypes wrong.
donjuan

[Derek]

My great grandfather was an american indian. Does that count? =D

[donjuan]

My great grandfather was an american indian. Does that count? =D

I really cant comment on that.  You see, in Canada where I live, the stupid mixed economy structure believes in giving the natives everything they demand- money for graduating, free land to set up reserves, easy access to welfare,- they get all the advantages, just because of a few things that happened a long time ago to their ancestors.

I dont know what the situation in the US is, with your "american indians".  Can you tell me more about your great Grandfather?  Im very interested.
donjuan

[faulty_damper]

About our Indians:
When the Spaniards came, they were dirty people.  I mean, they didn't even know how to take baths and they were smelly, too.  The Indians attempted to show them how.  When the more white Europeans came, they were dirty and didn't even know how to take baths and they were smelly, too.  The Indians attempted to show them how.  But being white and dirty and smelly compounded into a big problem: it affected their stupidity.  They couldn't learn to take baths everyday.  They were still smelly.

Anyway, the point about them being dirty people is that because of their dirtiness, and the Indians cleanliness, the White folk carried lots of disseases with them.  The Indians had ZERO disseases.  So when they came in contact with the whiteys, they all got sick.  All of them?  Since there are still some Indians left now, logic would dictate that not all of them got sick.  So how many?  Well, 95% of them died so only 5% lived to tell about it.  YES!  THat's 95% of the Indian population that died because some whitey's decided to go exploring to find drugs to get high off of!  No joke!

And when they did bathe, they didn't bother to remove all of their clothing!  Remember those old Western movies where the cowboys were bathing and they were wearing their long-johns?  That's exactly how their bathing was done, if ever.

Since the whiteys claimed the land (the Indians did not have such a concept of claiming the land), the land rightfully belonged to the Whiteys from the whiteys POV.  But not according to the Indians.

Anyway, remember the French-Indian war?  It was a war fought by Indians against the British.  The Indians were shouting "Allons, allons!"  Is that French for "Go, go!"?  Yes it is.  See, the French openly traded with certain Indians and formed an allegiance with each other.  They used the European technology to kill the British people who attempted to settle beyond the eastern mountain ranges.

Anyway, imagine the British's surprise when they heard a bunch of Indians killing them and speaking French!

Anyway, the Indians are all fat now.  All of them?  No, just most of them.  A lot less wrinkly but still fat.  They changed their diets and have become fat.  THey also gamble in a lot of casinos.  They have a lot of casinos.  It's a great way for the Indians to make money and a great way for the States to make money from the taxes they impose on the revenue.

Regarding schooling:  They might as well be idiots.  They suck academically.  They are almost always in the lowest of scoring on standardized testing.  Why is this?  I don't know.  Resentment over the killing of their ancestors?  Over 95% alone from dissease... Doubtful.  But they suck.  They rank with the blacks, the hispanics, and other minorities.  It's probably a cultural thing with the way we teach and the way they learn.  Our schooling system is not very good to put it kindly.  But they don't get federal assistance just because they were here first.

[glamfolk]

It does depend on where you live.  I live in the United States which, like Canada presumably, for years made it government policy to commit genocide against the native population (sometimes in the guise of charity, like when the US government distributed blankets that were laced with smallpox.  Weapons of mass distruction, indeed!).  As a whole, they were forced onto marginal “garbage” land like marshes and deserts or simply places too far away to be imaginable to the Europeans, like “over the mountains and out of sight,”  only to be further relocated when there was found to be some economic value in the land.  To say that the whites came and “sort of took over the place”  is laughable.  They’re an occupying force, using military might and principles foreign to the natives to swindle them out of land that was simply theirs first.  

It has been estimated that the Aboriginal population has been extant here for nearly 20,000 years.  That’s nearly 20,000 years with drinkable water, clean air, edible fish, more or less equitable land use, and cultural stability.  You’d think that the vastly more intelligent European settlers might have learned something, or at least have co-opted some of the principles which led to this stability (as Ghandi is said to have stated, “There is more than enough to satisfy everyone’s need, but not enough to satisfy everyone’s greed”.  That’s probably not an accurate quote, but it fits the idea), but the greed-based capitalism always supercedes the need-base capitalism.  One of the hallmarks of American culture is that if you’re going to live here, you must act like us or be ostracized, although this goes against the founding American principle of individual liberty.  

My experiences with natives/aboriginals has been positive.  It has been one of witness to an industious people striving to survive with their own cultural heritage intact amidst epidemic alcoholism, poverty, suicide, and racism.  In many cases, these people are just finding their own history, having had it outlawed and suppressed for many generations.  In some cases, only in the last few years was their religion even made legal in this country.  How’s that for freedom of religion?

Imagine yourself thrust into a society that does not want you.  You are thrust into a culture which is fully formed and stable, but which has no use for you or any of your ideas.  It is hostile and dangerous to you, with even diseases from which you have no developed immunity.  This culture has a different (or maybe none) written language, a completely different family structure, and musical history and aesthetic. Oh, and don’t forget, everyone wants you dead, along with everyone who looks like you.  They don’t understand you, and you don’t understand them.  This ignorance goes both ways.  This is what refugees all over the world experience.  Indians are kind of like refugees in their own country.  


Trading alcoholism for nicotine addiciton is a no-brainer.  Alcoholism does horrible things to families and society,  and besides, tobacco was a ceremonial drug, if I’m not mistaken, and not mass-produced with addiction-ehnancing additives.  Many tribes have undertaken to circumvent the rampant alcoholism and alcoholistic tendencies of the Indian population, with mixed results.   “Getting over” any addiction is simply not an option for many, regardless of race.  It’s simply not that simple.  Treatment centers and family support work wonders.  Perhaps there’s been no addiction in your family, but the damage it causes and the patience and understanding of families needed to help are both bewildering and astounding.  

I’m sorry that your experiences have been negative.  Many others share them, while still others do not.  Your experiences, coupled with what you’ve heard from your local population have led to some stereotypes in which you believe, apparently, wholeheartedly.  Luckily, you’re young enough to learn to develop filters for the racist dogma you’re hearing from the adults in your life and for the stereotypes being foisted upon you.  This bigotry (bringing us back to the central point!) can be extended to people who know nothing about classical music.  Or about certain types of food, or literature, or philosophy, or about “enriching experiences” that you can’t even dream about.  Use your energy  (and your empathy, I hope) to a positive end, like teaching those who will listen.  Otherwise, avoid the philistines who pound out heart and soul while you’re extolling the aural virtues of Liszt.  Some battles are just not worth your time.  Using classical music as a weapon to dispurse the great unwashed doesn’t really reveal anything about their moral character any more than their skin color does.  Maybe people don’t like to get blasted with anything.  Appreciating that others’ experiences have been different can only make you more worldly and well-rounded, and therefore a better musician.  It’s a big world, with room for everyone.  

[glamfolk]

Also, consider this:  perhaps those people don't like classical music because things like that are always being used to show that their ignorance means that they're not good enough to be with you.  There was a time when all of us found Fur Elise fascinating and fun to play.  Why is Fur Elise now so grating?  Because it's just so common. Will we have to keep finding new things to make us seem better than others?

[donjuan]

Hi GlamFolk,
I must say, you write a brilliant essay- it changes the way I perceive other cultures- esp. cultures with heavy stereotypes..
I said I would stop having disrespect when someone changes my mind- well, there you are.  However, I cant help but chuckle at Faulty's brief history of our proud natives..
However Faulty, I disagree about the last sentence about them not getting money for being here first.  They were promised money, land, etc. back, WAY back in history when the various acts were signed.  The canadian government felt guilty and decided to help them out for all the bad stuff that happened in the past.  Nowadays, they always go back to these ancient historic documents and force the government to live up to old promises made out of desperation on the canadian Governments part.

donjuan

[faulty_damper]

Yeah, so they were promised some money.  Then why is it that many live in poverty?  Yeah, I know I'm comparing different fruits.  THey live off the land.  Why do they need that much money?  We live in mansions which requires lots of money.  And a Walmart.

[donjuan]

Yeah, so they were promised some money.  Then why is it that many live in poverty?  Yeah, I know I'm comparing different fruits.  THey live off the land.  Why do they need that much money?  We live in mansions which requires lots of money.  And a Walmart.

Almost everyone native is affected by fetal alcohol syndrome.  As a result, the parents cant keep a decent living habitat for the children, the children, plagued by alcoholism, will grow up to be no better than the parents.  The trend continues, they continue to be poor and require assistance from the Govt.  frankly, I believe they are lazy, and incapable of trying to make changes in their lives.
donjuan

[Jemmers]

Could you not refer to "yellow" people? Thanks. It's not very polite... and most of all it's not true. We're light brown . Yellow's just for jaundiced people.

Anyway, I like to think of dabbler's this way... THEY are here to make us look ELITE. Hahahaha... they're the cannon fodder of musical education. Without them we'd have to compare ourselves to Horowitz... *shudder*.

On a more serious note, I'd rather there be more interest in piano than less. The art form MUST NOT die.

[faulty_damper]

It won't die.  The fine arts have always been funded by the rich and wealthy.  (redundancy.)  We in the US have the Ford Foundation, someone named Goldstein or Goldwater, and many other VERY rich patrons of the arts.  They fund it seemingly without end of funds.  They fund every kind of art: dance, museums, music, etc.  It's intriguing just how much money I can only imagine these people and foundations have.  I mean they donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to the San Francisco Ballet and the San Francisco Symphony.  ANd imagine how many symphonies and ballet companies there are in the States.

Never underestimate the power of the rich.  The only reason why the arts have survived are because of these peoples' money.  If they did not fund them, our lives would be filled by Britney Spears or Madonna.

I thank the rich people whom I've never seen for allowing me to play the piano.  You should, too.  The rich are the ones who keep it alive.  Not us.

[Spatula]

Squincy,

Perhaps the terminology of your residence is different for "native", but I guess they're normally refered as "indians", not east indians mind you, but also known as aboriginals.  

Back to these Dabblers, I HATE THEM!  

They make a TOTAL mockery of the art of piano playing.  Even now they have distorted and “raped” the very essence of the beauty of fur elise and smash it up into oblivion, oh God make it stop!  That is why I hate fur elise as well as Claire du lune.  

Sorry for the shouting but I gotta vent my anger at these dabblers…makes me want to punch and knock their lights out, place their head by the piano strings of a grand piano and knock down the support brace, crashing the piano cover over their head.  

Sounds sadistic, but it’s their punishment.  

I think the first piece I did was H&S, even though I can’t remember what it really sounds like.  It’s the duet one right?  Some place I can find the sheet music?  I can’t remember what chopsticks sounds like, nor that knuckle piece (notice the use of piece instead of song).

They all deserve a “Dies Irae” way to die.

[squinchy]

Sorry for the shouting but I gotta vent my anger at these dabblers…makes me want to punch and knock their lights out, place their head by the piano strings of a grand piano and knock down the support brace, crashing the piano cover over their head.  

Sounds sadistic, but it’s their punishment.  

..snippy..

They all deserve a “Dies Irae” way to die.

Wouldn't your punishment cause pain to the poor piano? Maybe it would be easier to inflict similar suffering to the dabbler by making them a piano bench rug.

Also, what's "Dies Irae?"

Never underestimate the power of the rich.  The only reason why the arts have survived are because of these peoples' money.
..snippy..
I thank the rich people whom I've never seen for allowing me to play the piano.  You should, too.  The rich are the ones who keep it alive.  Not us.

2.5 things:

.5: *cough*Medici Family*cough*

1.5: I second the thanking of the untangible rich people who sponsor the arts.

2.5: I don't think dabbler-types can keep the art of the piano alive directly-dabbler and artist are mutually exclusive. However, they could possibly annoy enough potential pianists to start playing.

[Spatula]

Of course not to the piano, to the dabblers!  Yeah they would make a quasi-decent rug, or skin them and make a piano cover, like human leather (that's disgusting)

Dies Irae (if I have the spelling right), is an "end of days" motif found in quite a few piecies.  It's basically the judgement of mankind by God, and I find rather umm...depressing.  

So in another words, Dabblers are facing "piano judgment" (dont ask)

[faulty_damper]

Dies Irae was a Gregorian chant.  It has since found its way into Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique and numerous other music.  Most notably the Berlioz symphony, which I have already noted.  It's the fourth movement, March of the Scaffold.

edit:  I goofed.  It's the fifth movment, Dream of a Witches' Sabbath.  It's quite unique of a 'chant'.

[Spatula]

I found those chants rather spooky.  Yeah try playing that music whilst walking through a spooky place.  Makes me shiver...  

[shh its kaya]

I know this post is somewhat late in relation to the other posts, but I wanted to metion something about how so many of the pianists here are so angry at the people who don't appreciate "classical music."  I'm the type of person who loves being unique (hence the Turkish name, and hence my love for learning an asortment of languages... well at least phrases in different languages), and by actually being able to appreciate classical music, I feel special compared to all the brain-numbed, blind followers of rap and things of the sort (*cough* abercrombie *cough*).  Sorry, I don't like abercrombie.  Anyways, these other students at my school don't know what real classical music is, but that makes me feel proud that I am one of very few that can actually tell the difference in difficulty between Evanescence's My Immortal and Beethoven's first movement of Pathétique.  

As for dabblers... I hope something evil awaits them after death.  However, I have an interesting story regarding something opposite of a dabbler.  One day, I was at a family friend's house (how I hate those type of things) and my mom's best friend asks me to play something on the piano.  Well, there were OTHER moms and OTHER children there as well.  After refusing to play for the longest time, I finally got the evil eye from my mom (yei türkiye!) and played a simple Clementi piece (give me a break, I was young).  Well, this other kid decides that he knows how to play that piece better than I do, and immediate after I finish (at least he had the decency to let me finish) came up to the piano and played the exact same song.  Let me say something about this:  BAD FORM.  You don't do that.  Not unless it is provoked.  Not unless the other person taunts you.  YOU JUST DON'T DO THAT!  At least choose a different piece.  Anyways, he played it slightly different that I did (I didn't think that the level of play was any bit significantly higher than mine) and the mothers went wild.  Now, he is always the one everyone wants to listen to.  Hey, at least I don't have to play for family friends anymore .

But, the worst people of all, are the ones that ask you to play, and then start, as they call it, "jammin'" on the piano with you.  I don't even answer the phone when I'm practicing (even when my mom tells me to), I don't go to eat dinner (even if my mom is holding a spatula above my head as if I were a fly) when I'm practicing!  And now some kid wants to start ruining a beautiful piece.  That is like tickling a person when they are crying after seeing something they love die!  I play piano extremely emotionally, hence that comparison is about right for me.  Those types of people don't know anything about piano and then decide to bug you when you try to show them something.  How irksome.

oh well... "so it goes" as the Tralfamadorians say. (quote from "SlaughterHouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut)

[steve]

dies irae=day of wrath, literally

[cziffra]

i have a trick for these sorts of people- after they've played you their spectacular rendition of fur elise, say "oh i love that piece, you know, though, it sounds a lot better iof you play it faster" and then play it as fast as you can.  and by as fast as you can, i mean, get through the entire first page quicker than they can play the first A minor chord or whatever key it is- i do this trick so often i can play the first page in about 7 seconds. (it's a travesty, i'll gladly admit, but it looks good)

then, when they're reeling in shock, you can do move on to my favourite trick- it's sure to bring the house down.  you'll need to have an assistant handy, or a small degree of foresight, so that a cup of coffee is nearby- play the opening part to heart and soul, just the progression, and then, just before the melody comes in, reach out with your left hand and take a drink!  you will of course need to practice how to do the accompaniement and the melody in one hand, but, with the exception of one stretch of a tenth, it's quite easy (much easier than any bach fugue) It knocks the SOCKS of any non pianist who sees it.  You are instantly the KING of all pianists.  
it's hard enough for these guys to do anything with two hands, they weren't even aware you could do two things with one.

and as for chopsticks- i don't know actually, maybe tremolo octaves?  descending chromatic scales?