Ledger Lines - ACE

[40yearslater]

I'm new to this board and have just starting to relearn piano on my own after 40 years.  I took lessons for 7 years as a kid.  I've been gleaning information and hints from the Internet and this board as to how to go about teaching myself what I once knew.  I saw something somewhere about the ledger lines above and below the staff that are ACE.   Does anyone have a diagram of that or can they simplify it for me? 

Also, I would welcome comments as to my plan (not formed very well yet).  I'm using my old John Thompson books, starting with Teaching Little Fingers to Play.  Got bored quickly so I moved onto my First Grade book.  Am relearning those songs one by one.  I'm doing scales before each lesson and am trying to sight read as recommended by going through easy pieces one after another.  Still trying to remember the notes, so maybe I've moved out of my Little Finger book too soon.  I think I want to stay with Thompson though.  My fingers remember Starlight Waltz from Grade Two and I can play that quite well right now.  OK, any advice is much appreciated.  Thanks.

[chozartmaninoff]

I'm new to this board and have just starting to relearn piano on my own after 40 years.  I took lessons for 7 years as a kid.  I've been gleaning information and hints from the Internet and this board as to how to go about teaching myself what I once knew.  I saw something somewhere about the ledger lines above and below the staff that are ACE.   Does anyone have a diagram of that or can they simplify it for me? 

Also, I would welcome comments as to my plan (not formed very well yet).  I'm using my old John Thompson books, starting with Teaching Little Fingers to Play.  Got bored quickly so I moved onto my First Grade book.  Am relearning those songs one by one.  I'm doing scales before each lesson and am trying to sight read as recommended by going through easy pieces one after another.  Still trying to remember the notes, so maybe I've moved out of my Little Finger book too soon.  I think I want to stay with Thompson though.  My fingers remember Starlight Waltz from Grade Two and I can play that quite well right now.  OK, any advice is much appreciated.  Thanks.

Firstly - Good on you for re-taking lessons after all this time - Why did you stop???

Ok, well i would suggest to get into the swing of things starting with some easy pieces - Hard to say what as i dont know if you remember anything - Say Fur elise.

I would say start off getting to know the piano, So get a book or download the free file on pianostreet showing you scales and also get a chord chart.
Get a few easy peices and also get one piece maybe too hard for you but you can slowly work on.............Maybe a grade 5.......
Each day learn a new scale and get into your easier pieces. Just get used to using your fingers up and down the piano again, and get your memory going with the easy pieces......

For sight reading, providing you alredy know how to kind of - And if anyone has the Leger lines to show you - (Or to work them out count the note your looking at down 8 notes and it should be on the stave for you!!!! take practice......Then i would suggest a hymm book - They always helped me on sight reading.....

Example practice -

15-20 mins Scales

15-20 mins Easy piece

10-15 mins Hymm for sight reading

15 - 20 mins for harder piece.



Also look for hanon and Czerny hand exercises.


Im not going to read this back so it may seem like mixed up words - Sorry if it does - V tired!!!!!!!!!

Best of luck

Mike

[40yearslater]

Mike, I stopped because I became a rebel teenager and didn't want to take lessons anymore.  I regret that now.  I never had room in my house for a piano until recently so I've decided to start again.  I have quite a variety of easy to hard (for me at least) music, and I'm glad you said to mix a hard one in, as I'm afraid I'll get bored.  I like your idea of a practice schedule and have been doing that except for the hard piece, which I'll try soon.  I'll look for Hanon or Czerny hand exercises.  And I'll have to work on the ledger line reading.  Thanks for all your advice.  Terry

P.S.  I note that all the talk is about classical.  Does anyone play any rock?  House of the Rising Sun by the Animals was my favorite song to play and I have a difficult Stairway to Heaven by Led Zepplin that I really want to learn...down the road.  I do have classical pieces that I will diligency be playing though. 

[danny elfboy]

Mike, I stopped because I became a rebel teenager and didn't want to take lessons anymore.  I regret that now. 

Don't fall into the trap of regretting.
The point is that each choice (no matter how little or big) we make is based on the present circumstances. Just because the circumstances change it doesn't mean that choice wasn't the best one in that moment. If you didn't want to play, piano was not your thing and you made the right thing for that circumstance. The only reason we regret is that we forget, we tend to think the current circumstance applied in the past as well and we might have taken a different choice, but it's not true.

It's like when you go to the restaurant and eat like a pig. So you're so full that if you eat anything else you're gonna throw up and the sight of a serving of salmon makes you sick. The next day you wake up with a craving for the salmon and think "damn, I wish I had eaten that salmon when I had the chance". Wrong! You don't. Had you eaten that salmon you would have thrown up all your dinner. It's easy to claim "I could have" now, when the circumstances that made you take a certain choice have changed; but it's an illusion. The truth is that if you could going back you would do the same exact things because those were the best choices in those circumstances. It's so easy to claim "I wish I had eaten that salmon" once the stomachache and bloatedness is over; but we must remember that bloatedness, that stomachache, that feeling of why we chose not to eat it.

That's why people usually are embarassed of what they have writte years ago (maybe they're reading their old diary or something) It's not because of age or whatever other stereotype, it's because those circumstances that made us write those stuff are over and we can't imagine writing those things in the present circumstance, because they're not anymore compatible. Sometimes I feel the same sensation reading in the evening a post I have written in the morning.

Anyway, welcome !

[danny elfboy]

P.S.  I note that all the talk is about classical.  Does anyone play any rock?  House of the Rising Sun by the Animals was my favorite song to play and I have a difficult Stairway to Heaven by Led Zepplin that I really want to learn...down the road.  I do have classical pieces that I will diligency be playing though. 

I play everything.
Other than classical I like celtic music, rock, pop, boogie, blues, twist, ballads, new age.
Also I like disney tunes, video game music and even play dance music (yup, on the piano!)

The point is realizing that all music is based on chords. Classical music, like any other kind of music, is chords over a melody; the difference being that those chords are arranged in interesting and creative ways. The only exception to this rule is baroque music where you have a melody over a countermelody. So the more you understand the foundation of music the more you can divert from the classical standard maintaining the same care and precision though.

That's why you must not play something you don't understand. For many pianists playing is like reading aload a russian poem. You might pronounce it properly (because of the phonetic signs) but you don't understand anything of what you're reading.

The most important things you must understand of a piece of music you're practicing are:
structure, rhythm, pulse, phrasing. That's why the best way to learn piano is to focus on things you can play almost instantly versus stuff you need months to slightly master.
You must focus on things that are immediate enough to provide you enough musical information that make sense to your musical senses.

If you're interested in anything non-classical you might want to buy a book of chords and stard practicing them. The buy a fake book and start arranging your chords. You will begin with block chords, then broken, then arpeggio, than straight beats, then dotted rhythm and so on. You progress by adding small changes to what you already know well. The small changes, progress after progress, become bigger and bigger and last thing you know you're already arranging and harmonizing instinctively with good technique.

As for technique I would begin with some posture exercises.
Find the best way to produce a sound at the piano and don't give for granted that all you need to do is sitting and depressing a note. You must feel grounded on the bench, you must feel confortable when playing, the arms need to move with ease, tension must be released and never be accumulated.

[40yearslater]

Thanks Danny for your insights.  I'm afraid I could never live up to all of that.  I just want to relearn to play my old music and learn some new music too.  I work full time and have other obligations, so that really limits my practice time.  I want it to remain fun and enjoyable.  I'm afraid that if I put too many demands on it I'm afraid it would turn into drudgery.  I appreciate your comments and advice though and when time permits maybe I can expand my expectations of myself.  Terry

[danny elfboy]

Thanks Danny for your insights.  I'm afraid I could never live up to all of that.  I just want to relearn to play my old music and learn some new music too.  I work full time and have other obligations, so that really limits my practice time.  I want it to remain fun and enjoyable.  I'm afraid that if I put too many demands on it I'm afraid it would turn into drudgery.  I appreciate your comments and advice though and when time permits maybe I can expand my expectations of myself.  Terry

You're welcome
Whenever you have something to ask or share just message me.
It's true that you must not too many demands on it all at once.
The most important thing in whatever activity we perform is finding a balance.
I know people who suddenly realize they're unfit and unhealthy so they drastically change their diet, start working out, buy organic soaps, attent yoga courses and so on.
The problem is that they never found a balance and instead of finding it and allowing slowly those activities to become part of such balance, they substite the search of a balance with all those activity. It's like building a castle of cards. You must make sure that the floor is resistant enough before you can put yet another card on. You just can throw cards at the structure because it will collpase.

The problem with many demands is not the demands per se but how people tend to suddenly do a lot of things at once lacking a balance that would allow them to be enjoyable formative experiences compatible with our lifestyle rather than stressfull events we find hard to reconcile with our day. So it's a baby step process, not moving to the next step until you've found a balance and a control in the previous one. And piano playing is a baby steps process.

You must build a foundation and when the foundation is strong enough build new foundations over the existing foundation and so on, until you're in control of many things but none of them distracts you from one another, because the once solid foundations don't need your awareness anymore; they have become second nature and automatic and they stand on their own so you can build upon them.

Since you're re-starting from scratch, you've the unique chance to build a solid proportionated castles, rather than a weak structure always on the verge of collapsing.