how to approach technique?

[db05]

Some say we acquire technique through pieces. Some say we need specific exercises. Either way, how would you go about practicing that?

This is why I came up with this question. I'm required to do Hanon, Czerny Op. 599, First Lessons in Bach, Clementi Sonatinas. Please don't tell me to stop any of these because I have no choice. But I can add to it if I must.

I am so weird. I find Hanon most frustrating of all. And sometimes, a bit painful.  I've been mixing up my practice since last month, seems like I'm in a rut again. Everything is excruciatingly slow. Hanon is purely technical exercise, so I'm guessing it's a technique thing.

[hyrst]

Hi db05,
You are not alone in finding Hanon frustrating, difficult, boring or anything else.  It can be useful or it wouldn't still be used so much - but it has fairly narrow focuses and not a lot of melody variation. 

I recommend playing it as slowly as you can tolerate and as easily or as relaxed as possible.  Try messing around with the lines you are given - different rhythms, transpositions, even changing chords one hand and playing passages with the other.  I think Hanon is good to strengthen certain techniques when you already have them right, but no fun at all to practice if you haven't got a good scale techqnique already... and quite uncomfortable for someone who already struggles with fine motor coordintaion. 

Don't play it to the point that you strain your hands constantly for several minutes because while playing can be hard work, no muscles should suffer under tension for more than about 30 seconds.  If you have to play it, either make it a creative exercise - see how much you can change Hanon - or do it as mindlessly as necessary - time to work through your daily schedule or the essay you have to write.

Technique is learnt and practiced IMO whenever you think about or practice the piano - no matter what you are doing.  It is about hearing the music and developing both the feeling and the movement to accomplish a particular sound.  There are foundational techniques which you will come across in pretty much every piece and there are specific techniques for accomplishing particular flows or dynamics in individual pieces - depending on the piece and your own build.  The foundational techniques can be practiced in studies - and pieces in collections are desigend to focus on these from the beginnning in little 4 or 8 bar studies through to the higher etudes of composers such as Chopin.  (I think Clementi and Czerny are great here.)

It is also possible to study foundational techniques through your performance repertoire and many people advocate this.  IMO, it is more effective and economical to find pleasant studies because you don't have to keep changing your focus as you progress through the piece - you can develop a feeling for the movement under study more easily and many of the studies are really quite nice pieces of music.  If you create your own studies from the pieces youare learning for performance, you probably become more efficient at these pieces, but you either have to know how to build your own study or play small sections even more repetitively.  Probably a matter of personal preference, I guess.

[m19834]

Well, firstly, there are truly only a few fundametals to consider regarding technique itself : 

Posture :  "Balanced Body"
                       -- Joint Alignment
                       -- "Balancing" on one finger, weight transfer from finger to finger

Forearm Rotations
Circular Motions
Passing of the Thumb/Shifting (or re-orienting) of the hand
Proper use of "power"
Independence and Coordination of the hands

These fundamentals (should) form the basic groundwork for all motions at the instrument, however, it is essential to always keep in mind the actual purpose of what we do at the instrument : sound and of course, music.  Sound and music are ultimately the only guides for our motions.  It is sometimes necessary for the above-mentioned fundamentals to be consciously programmed, only to finally become a subconscious whisper.

Whether I am playing Hanon or anything else, these are the strictly technical things that I am considering when I move about the piano, and they have become more of an investigative process should something not be working (should I not be achieving the sound or ease of motion that I am ultimately looking for).  And, once again, as important as these things can be, it is ultimately a clear and precise aural image of the sound(s) I am trying to achieve that reveal to me the exact motional requirements to succeeding at producing the exact sound that I am wanting -- the sound must ultimately govern the motion (and this will lead into the infintesimal detail of what we are *doing* with ourselves at the instrument). 

All of this is not to be confused with "practice techniques" (like "dopping notes" or yes, "exercises").  The point of any exercise is (should be) to actually exercise the basic principles of motion, and what we do at the instrument is nearly all about motion (including sound).  Motion, motion, motion vs. "positioning" -- we are always in motion and this is what produces the sound (but it is the sound or aural impression which initiates and guides the motion).  "Positioning" and placement matters, but only in the respect that our motions aim for it and then we are gone from it and into another.  "Positioning" matters in piano playing in a similar fashion as it matters in walking, running, skipping, jumping.

[db05]

Before anyone gets annoyed at me...

Uhm, I know there are a lot of technique threads around here already. I searched around the site... There's a lot of Hanon warfare in there, and I get confused from all the arguing. There are fundamental techniques regardless of what you're playing, right?? 

Well, firstly, there are truly only a few fundametals to consider regarding technique itself : 

Posture :  "Balanced Body"
                       -- Joint Alignment
                       -- "Balancing" on one finger, weight transfer from finger to finger

Forearm Rotations
Circular Motions
Passing of the Thumb/Shifting (or re-orienting) of the hand
Proper use of "power"
Independence and Coordination of the hands

Karli, that's A LOT! 

  Am still digesting what I've read... I'll be Bach.

[m19834]

Karli, that's A LOT! 

hmmm ... well, happy to see that you take it seriously .  I have to ask though, do you mean to tell me that the little list I made, compared to books and books (and books) of "exercises" (where most people believe they learn technique from) seems like a lot ?  What is a lot about my little list is how many ways you can use it (passages, pieces) !  If that little list of particulars is something new, there are of course places to start.  In any event, you yourself asked if there were any fundamental techniques regardless of what you're playing, and that is exactly what I have listed for you and was/is my purpose in posting it here.

[db05]

hmmm ... well, happy to see that you take it seriously .  I have to ask though, do you mean to tell me that the little list I made, compared to books and books (and books) of "exercises" (where most people believe they learn technique from) seems like a lot ?  What is a lot about my little list is how many ways you can use it (passages, pieces) !  If that little list of particulars is something new, there are of course places to start.  In any event, you yourself asked if there were any fundamental techniques regardless of what you're playing, and that is exactly what I have listed for you and was/is my purpose in posting it here.

Thank you. 

Apparently I've been aware of some items of your list at some times, although not verbally described like that. I obviously haven't considered all the list at once. Terrible posture and coordination, no matter what I do.  Everytime I sit at the piano feels like I have never played or practiced before.

[m19834]

Thank you. 

You're welcome .

Apparently I've been aware of some items of your list at some times, although not verbally described like that. I obviously haven't considered all the list at once. Terrible posture and coordination, no matter what I do.  Everytime I sit at the piano feels like I have never played or practiced before.

Well, a person can play with terrible posture and coordination, of course, but that is not terribly efficient in time nor energy !  There can be different reasons for feeling like you have never played or practiced before, each time you sit down, sometimes that can be just mental.  However, there "should" be some carryover and a basic aim you have each day when you approach the instrument.  Speaking of which, it's time for me to go visit my delicious artist bench !

[db05]

There can be different reasons for feeling like you have never played or practiced before, each time you sit down, sometimes that can be just mental.  However, there "should" be some carryover and a basic aim you have each day when you approach the instrument.  Speaking of which, it's time for me to go visit my delicious artist bench!

Sometimes I'd come to my lesson, having practiced a lot for the week and feel really awkward. Sometimes it's the other way around, I barely practice but it goes rather smoothly. A lot of this is mental, yes. I get mood swings a lot. Like, right now I'm down and I don't feel like practicing at all. When I get back, I'd be like, starting from scratch again. 

In case I feel better soon (can't study at all unless I feel ready for it), where to start?

PS. Love is never simple. At least for me.

[keypeg]

Posture :  "Balanced Body"
                       -- Joint Alignment
                       -- "Balancing" on one finger, weight transfer from finger to finger

Forearm Rotations
Circular Motions
Passing of the Thumb/Shifting (or re-orienting) of the hand
Proper use of "power"
Independence and Coordination of the hands

I cannot see coming to any of these on one's own without a teacher, except maybe the last one.  Would I know what forearm rotations are?  Circular motions?  How do I know that I am doing thumb/shifting properly?  Power? etc.

Do all teachers teach these things directly or indirectly, but teach them?

How does a student find such a teacher?  Is it reasonable to assume that these things cannot be found on one's own?  Or somewhat maybe?   Can one assume that any decent teacher will be teaching these things and know of them?

KP

[db05]

I cannot see coming to any of these on one's own without a teacher, except maybe the last one.  Would I know what forearm rotations are?  Circular motions?  How do I know that I am doing thumb/shifting properly?  Power? etc.

Do all teachers teach these things directly or indirectly, but teach them?

How does a student find such a teacher?  Is it reasonable to assume that these things cannot be found on one's own?  Or somewhat maybe?   Can one assume that any decent teacher will be teaching these things and know of them?

KP

I believe correct posture and coordination are part of "natural talent", and can be applied to other things besides music, so they may not have to be taught. I learn some things indirectly, by watching my teachers and classmates play. Or "inherited" from my guitar playing. I haven't had anyone teach me any of this verbally/ directly though.

[m19834]

I cannot see coming to any of these on one's own without a teacher, except maybe the last one.  Would I know what forearm rotations are?  Circular motions?

Well, this is all stuff we use in our everyday life, since they are natural motions and characteristics for our body.  And, some people do figure this out on their own at the piano, either without knowing it or at least without naming it.

How do I know that I am doing thumb/shifting properly?  Power? etc.

When you listen to a piece of music on the stereo and you find that your kinesthetic reaction to the sounds is of these motions.

Do all teachers teach these things directly or indirectly, but teach them?

Well, the literal answer to your question is no, not all teachers teach this in any way, shape, or form.  That is not to say that all do not teach this stuff in some way.

How does a student find such a teacher?

Seeking and finding. 

Is it reasonable to assume that these things cannot be found on one's own? Or somewhat maybe?

   

Well, I will never give a straight answer to this question about self teaching, self-learning, and learning with a teacher.  I get what you are asking, but my answer is somewhat the same.  They can be found on their own, and to some degree they are only so important, but I don't know of how many people do figure it out on their own ... I just don't know.  In my case, I learned about it in a conscious way after my formal schooling, and by then my need was a little different than somebody who is just kind of growin' up on the farm without any kind of "interference."

Can one assume that any decent teacher will be teaching these things and know of them?

KP

I think that the definition of a "decent" teacher is one who is teaching something that helps a student play and understand music decently, however that is.  Personally, I know at least what to avoid.

[m19834]

I believe correct posture and coordination are part of "natural talent", and can be applied to other things besides music, so they may not have to be taught. I learn some things indirectly, by watching my teachers and classmates play. Or "inherited" from my guitar playing. I haven't had anyone teach me any of this verbally/ directly though.

Well, to some extent that is true but it is true for everybody !  We were all born with the natural talent for "correct" posture and coordination because it is literally built into our frames, just like flying is built into the frame and design of a bird.  Flying for birds is certainly not reserved for the elite, it is part of their nature as a species, just like the human species is designed to sit and walk and play the piano .

[m]

Hanon is purely technical exercise, so I'm guessing it's a technique thing.

If you approach Hanon as a purely technical exercise, then it is better not to bother at all.

Technique is a function of two things--musical image and physical sensitivity.
Why I like Hanon (although hadn't played it myself for yeeeeeeeears) is that it gives you some repetative formula, so you can concentrate on physical senses of the process of how your fingers "sink" and embrace the keys, with no any physical tension, without worrying too much about interpretation or textual aspects.

Play it as the most beautiful melody in the wolrd, sing it, shape the phrases, be expressive, make musical directions, engage your imagination, concentrate on absolute physical comfort--this, and only this it is worth playing it.

Best, M

[db05]

Well, to some extent that is true but it is true for everybody !  We were all born with the natural talent for "correct" posture and coordination because it is literally built into our frames, just like flying is built into the frame and design of a bird.  Flying for birds is certainly not reserved for the elite, it is part of their nature as a species, just like the human species is designed to sit and walk and play the piano .

From another post of mine:

As a late starter, I can relate to your condition, though I am still in beginner level (so in some ways I can relate more to leachim than anyone else in this thread). This is just a theory, but we may have the same basic problem with technique. This doesn't include the psychology that you may be stressing/ thinking too much (will talk more on that later). Piano technique is all about coordination, isn't it? I find myself memorizing pieces, how they sound like and/or what the notes are, and I still can't play them. So it is not thinking too much, rather, the playing cannot keep up with my thoughts. It doesn't help that I listen to a lot of classical music in my course, and that my classmates are at a higher level than I am.

Yes, I've been accused by my teachers of "thinking too much" while playing, but what else can I do? Rely of muscle memory without a bit of thinking and get injured? Focus on sight reading to the metronome while sacrificing memory and the chances of expression? See, there are so many things to think about...

Most people get the technique down first and foremost. Coordination is easy for common people. It's true, standing (among other everyday things) is harder than piano playing. But I was almost 4 when I learned to speak. I was around 10 when I learned to tie my shoelaces. I always hold a pen the wrong way. I often bump into things when I'm not careful (even in my own room). I have terrible posture, on and off the piano. Clearly, motor skills/ coordination are not my thing. So I move differently, behave differently, learn differently. My teachers weren't aware of that, and use a one-size-fits-all method. It is frustrating, and I try not to think of my classmates' progress. But when I hear good music from recordings, I cannot help but feel bad... The music is the end we strive for, after all.

Sorry, am not born with correct posture and good coordination, what do I do now? 

PS. Piano playing isn't so common imo.
PPS. Love is freakishly hard imo.

[m19834]

From another post of mine:

Sorry, am not born with correct posture and good coordination, what do I do now? 

Well, firstly, how do you know you are not doing everything right ?  Secondly, you don't have to believe me about us all being born with correct posture, but let me ask you this :  Should you not be born with it and I were to be telling you how to achieve it, then what I would be asking would be going directly against what is natural to you and to your design and character as a human being.  Do you really believe that all the great pianists exist solely because they did something with themselves that was not actually humanly possible and was not part of the human design ?  They accomplish what they accomplish because it is built into the human being to accomplish it, and it's not just them, it is us, all of us (though it will be demonstrated in an uniquely individual way).  Some people have interferences though, and some people don't realize how to recognize that what they are doing is a good way. 

You say you have terrible posture, but what does that mean, exactly ?  "Good" posture is that which our body is built to do, and your body is built to sit and stand naturally.  Most of the posture in society (except for in most children) is "bad" then by that definition.

So, what to do now would be to get a teacher . 

PS. Piano playing isn't so common imo.

That doesn't mean we as a species are not built to play it.

PPS. Love is freakishly hard imo.

Then you are doing it wrong  .

[ahinton]

PS. Piano playing isn't so common imo.

That doesn't mean we as a species are not built to play it.

Well, that's as may be, but someone (I cannot now recall who) once said that if God had intended Man to play the piano, He would not have created him with thumbs (a notion that, as someone whose thumb tips extend only to the first finger joints, strikes quite a chord with me); no doubt pianistimo would have had something to say about that, but she doesn't post here these days...

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

Too much of the same thing can make progress seem slow. For example, doing all of the Hanon, or all of the Czerny 599, that is to me, incredibly stupid and boring.

The speed at which you learn something is commanded by your sight and memory skills. The mastery of technique, to make everything physically feel easy, to improve the efficiency of your transfer to the keyboard, is a never ending journey of improvement. You will find the more pieces you know, as you make improvements on one, it has a far reaching effect on many other pieces which highlight similar ideas. Lingering on trying to master technique can be a futile path to take. In fact you might find out you will learn a lot more post-practice than trying to force it in your practice.

If you consciously understand your music (the patterns it demands of you) this is a fact. So don't linger on the same idea for too long, move on, just keep moving on. Eventually you will find many of your problems will dissolve. I sometimes tell my students its like watching ice melt, eventually it will melt, don't waste your time watching it. Increases in different amount memorized pieces = increase in technical capability. Spending 100 hours on one technical concept highlights that it is too difficult for you and you should simply move on. Spending 5 minutes on a technical concept and getting it done average and controlled is good enough. Come back to it periodically to measure if it is progressing or stunted. If it gets stunted its because its too hard for you, and you should choose something else, if it is not too hard they your approach is ineffective.

But notice, just because you can say play octaves well, it doesn't mean you could play a piece which has insane amounts of octave leaps and figures. This highlights a fact that we shouldn't learn piano  and consider technique can be applied to everything the same way. In fact technique only highlights striving for an effortless touch which produces the desired sound. Application of technique is very difficult to grasp hold of if you don't know lots of pieces. Application of technique is harder than technique itself in my opinion. You really have to know your hands to be able to study and learn new music with a strong technical sense.

[db05]

Hi everyone. Am back from a day at school. I won't say it's a bad day, but I'm tired. Typical school day.

Solfeggio - can only read half the piece because although I practiced this morning, it was not enough. Would have been better if I haven't tried it at a fast tempo. Plus am still a bit hoarse.

Guitar - For 15 minutes, I could sight read pretty well. After that, my mind fell apart and I practiced finished pieces instead. Teacher says exams are next month. 3 scales and one more piece, and I'm ready. Easy. 

PIANO

Hanon - two numbers, 11 and 12. Done.
Scale and Arpeggio - F minor harmonic/ melodic. Done.
Czerny - 34. Done, but slow. Teacher says to practice more, but assigns 35 also.
Bach - 4 (Polonaise). Teacher says to practice more, at this point am not in a good mood. (Have been working on this for a month now, why can't we move on? Am officially sick of this piece.)
Clementi - Sonatina in C, 3rd movement. Plays slowly, some mistakes but can play it through while talking to teacher about how I'm bored. (See, I can play while talking, which means I have practiced, so much that I'm running on memory.)
Piece - What piece? There's no more time left.


That should give you an idea of my progress.

Some interesting comments here, thank you very much.

Quote from: keypeg on July 22, 2008, 01:08:53 AM
I cannot see coming to any of these on one's own without a teacher, except maybe the last one.  Would I know what forearm rotations are?  Circular motions?

Well, this is all stuff we use in our everyday life, since they are natural motions and characteristics for our body.  And, some people do figure this out on their own at the piano, either without knowing it or at least without naming it.

Quote
How do I know that I am doing thumb/shifting properly?  Power? etc.

When you listen to a piece of music on the stereo and you find that your kinesthetic reaction to the sounds is of these motions.

Quote
Do all teachers teach these things directly or indirectly, but teach them?

Well, the literal answer to your question is no, not all teachers teach this in any way, shape, or form.  That is not to say that all do not teach this stuff in some way.

I see where you're going with this now. I think I misunderstood you at first. But I still don't agree completely. An experienced musician can find the motions for himself, but a mere listener or beginner would be far from the truth. He may think that you need really strong fingers to play ff, or learn to play a few songs/ pieces with stiff wrists and arms, or no regard for dynamics.

All teachers would teach this in some way, but wouldn't it be great if they could demonstrate AND explain it in words? That way you can try it out for yourself, and not wait for teacher to correct you. I had a good guitar teacher before, and he'd find all those technical and musical errors in my playing that I haven't noticed in my practice. Time wouldn't be enough to explain all of those, but when I practice again, I would have gained a bit more awareness and could make further progress.

The piano teachers I've had so far don't teach me how to correct errors. Maybe they don't expect so much of me...

(to be continued...)

 

[keypeg]

...but wouldn't it be great if they could demonstrate AND explain it in words?

Or notice, and lead you to it in some manner ...

[db05]

Well, firstly, how do you know you are not doing everything right ?  Secondly, you don't have to believe me about us all being born with correct posture, but let me ask you this :  Should you not be born with it and I were to be telling you how to achieve it, then what I would be asking would be going directly against what is natural to you and to your design and character as a human being.

I know I'm definitely doing something wrong if I feel pain. Piano practice makes me uncomfortable most of the time, and I shift every few minutes to somehow correct my posture. Doesn't matter if I look weird, as long as I can make music and keep on the bench.

I've discovered long ago that I'm wired and built differently than most people. I don't know what to do about it, though. Act normal and try to sit straight, or act differently and play with a hunchback? A natural and pain-free solution would be ideal, otherwise I need to know what the "correct posture" is and grit my teeth and stick to it. 

Too much of the same thing can make progress seem slow. For example, doing all of the Hanon, or all of the Czerny 599, that is to me, incredibly stupid and boring.
...
You will find the more pieces you know, as you make improvements on one, it has a far reaching effect on many other pieces which highlight similar ideas. Lingering on trying to master technique can be a futile path to take. In fact you might find out you will learn a lot more post-practice than trying to force it in your practice.
...
Increases in different amount memorized pieces = increase in technical capability. Spending 100 hours on one technical concept highlights that it is too difficult for you and you should simply move on. Spending 5 minutes on a technical concept and getting it done average and controlled is good enough.

I don't quite understand. It's an oversimplification, but are you suggesting that I focus on horizontal growth (getting a lot of pieces under my belt), and vertical growth shall take care of itself? I agree, Hanon and Czerny are boring, but unless I do the assigned work very well, teacher will be unimpressed and not let me move on to other works. 

Another thing comes to mind: it's those people I've met who can play a lot of music, but they don't sound very good. I don't want to stay on one thing for months, but I don't want to butcher a dozen pieces either.

[lostinidlewonder]

...are you suggesting that I focus on horizontal growth (getting a lot of pieces under my belt), and vertical growth shall take care of itself?

Horizontal growth (expanding your memorized repertoire) is what you should focus on because it causes vertical (technical) growth as well. However vertical growth does not produce the same improvement in horizontal growth. Technical growth can increase the rate at which you learn new music (however not as much as sight reading improvement, which is predominantly learned from horizontal growth), however technical growth lives of learning many different types of pieces.

Of course you must not move on if you haven't got the idea of how to produce the technique. I would have tongue in cheek if in your lessons you are trying to polish a single piece up so much that it becomes months and months and months of work on the same piece and nothing else. Ok if you are playing a major piece which is 40+ pages long then maybe it will take you months of work, but we are talking about Czerny!

I find that if you have say troubles to control a particular idea in one piece, you should try to learn the same concepts in another piece which is easier. Then try to apply knowledge learned from the easier piece to take off that edge of the harder piece. Sometimes I feel teachers go the wrong way about improving the student by lingering on a concept which is tough for the student too long. They waste countless lesson time trying to force improvement, being extremely picky over the littlest of mistakes. Instead, finding an easier piece which has similar technique which can be applied to the more difficult piece, this would act as a catalyst to the technical improvement. I will make sure the student knows what a piece should sound like if polished well, but not necessarily expect them to produce that perfectly themselves.

The teacher should choose music which challenges the student, but at the same time, the student should be able to relate the new challenge they face with challenges they have overcome in the past. If you are an early beginner you cannot do this, but if you know a few pieces you can. This is why exactly what pieces you are learn is so important. As a beginner anything which gets your hands working together is good, but as you get used to the idea of using two hands, building your technique must rest on carefully chosen repertoire, otherwise your growth can be stunted and slowed down.

However if you are an advanced student or late intermediate it might be important for you to actually refine your technique. In this case it is ok to spend longer on a single piece to develop your technique, but you have to at least have a good knowledge of a lot of music before you invest heaps of time patching the holes of your technique. Beginners and Intermediate students have no idea which technical holes will automatically be filled with an expanded repertoire. More advanced students know which technical feats have been bothering them for a while.

Another thing comes to mind: it's those people I've met who can play a lot of music, but they don't sound very good. I don't want to stay on one thing for months, but I don't want to butcher a dozen pieces either.

People usually don't play well because they try to play the piece in a formulated way. They do not listen well to themselves more than having inadequate technique to produce the sound. Listening experience comes from learning many pieces, not as much improvement to technique.

[db05]

I'm back. Can't sleep.

People usually don't play well because they try to play the piece in a formulated way. They do not listen well to themselves more than having inadequate technique to produce the sound. Listening experience comes from learning many pieces, not as much improvement to technique.

Point taken. Learn many pieces + listen well to youself. Again, am oversimplifying.


My teacher is far from picky. She doesn't force impovement, doesn't complain at all, but at the end of the day I am stuck with the same piece. That's that until I play it well. It takes me so long to finish a piece, by the time I get it, I'd have it mostly memorized. Or perhaps it's necessary to memorize it for me to play decently? 

[db05]

*bump*

My hand hurts, so I'm not practicing today. I was practicing on my keyboard last night because I had no access to the piano (it was late). Whether it was becuase of the pop music (chords) or the classical (that is supposed to be played on a real piano), I can't tell.

This sucks.  My classes are tomorrow, and my assigned work still isn't done. Some people can work on more pieces and also play keyboard, but I'm struggling already with the few I have.

I just feel terrible atm. Any help would be appreciated. I'm taking a break whether I like it or not anyway. 

[bipabew]

I did the first two books of Hanon and I don't think they helped me much.  I would suggest you learn Bach's two and three part inventions and some preludes and fugues.  If you do that you'll learn technique as it applies to music. 

[db05]

I did the first two books of Hanon and I don't think they helped me much.  I would suggest you learn Bach's two and three part inventions and some preludes and fugues.  If you do that you'll learn technique as it applies to music. 

I'm surprised you said that because inventions are quite advanced imo. But it's really really tempting.

[m19834]

If you want something hanon-esque (wow, that cheapens the deal a bit ), but would like it to be a bit more useful with your time, just take the first invention's opening motive and play it in all keys, alternating hands.  The motive itself couldn't be more simple !  If that gets boring for you, locate the inverted motive, or the retrograde motive, and play those in all keys !  If that gets boring for you, go through the entire invention, figure out the fingering for each hand, and after learning the motives and all their permutations first, play hands separately and memorize that.   

[andro]

I have a question. Can somebody recommend me excerises for very fast playing.

Ty

[m]

I have a question. Can somebody recommend me excerises for very fast playing.

Ability to play fast is a function of three things:
1) Music image
2) Physical relaxation
3) Sensitivity of the touch

In other words, realizing music context and mental control over your body and finger tips as means of realization of your musical image, is the key.
ANY excercises (as well as actual pieces) would be the MOST helpful, as long as you are aware of those.

Best, M

[db05]

I have a question. Can somebody recommend me excerises for very fast playing.

Ty

Ability to play fast is a function of three things:
1) Music image
2) Physical relaxation
3) Sensitivity of the touch

In other words, realizing music context and mental control over your body and finger tips as means of realization of your musical image, is the key.
ANY excercises (as well as actual pieces) would be the MOST helpful, as long as you are aware of those.

Best, M

Then any fast piece (that you like, of course) will do. 

[momopi]

Hi everyone. Am back from a day at school. I won't say it's a bad day, but I'm tired. Typical school day.

PIANO

Hanon - two numbers, 11 and 12. Done.
Scale and Arpeggio - F minor harmonic/ melodic. Done.
Czerny - 34. Done, but slow. Teacher says to practice more, but assigns 35 also.
Bach - 4 (Polonaise). Teacher says to practice more, at this point am not in a good mood. (Have been working on this for a month now, why can't we move on? Am officially sick of this piece.)
Clementi - Sonatina in C, 3rd movement. Plays slowly, some mistakes but can play it through while talking to teacher about how I'm bored. (See, I can play while talking, which means I have practiced, so much that I'm running on memory.)
Piece - What piece? There's no more time left.

Hmm, it seems like we are more or less on the same level - the level when we go beyond the very basic and start to acquire little tecniques for short pieces. Why don't you try playing each pieces again then take note of the measures you are having difficulties with? Have specific goals like improving measures number xxxx, so you can focus more. Then when you can play those measure perfectly, play the whole piece again. #4 (Polonaise) is very short, it shouldn't much of a problem. Also, you can ask your teacher on what would she do if she's having the same problem. (I suppose you are also a young adult, so probably you can talk to her/him like adults do) Maybe she can demo the way she'd practice, from there you can get some pointers.

In my case, sometimes my left hand is slower than my right hand; what my teacher does is she makes me isolate the left hand and practice it alternately - LH only first then hands together. That way we can keep track of how the LH with lagging technics can improve and play well as the RH.

 

[cherub_rocker1979]

This is a very good topic which was discussed in detail at the www.PimpMyPiano.com forum.  You may find the answers given there to be useful to you.

[keypeg]

The articles are excellent.  Maybe the site's title can be altered slightly, such as "PimpMyPiano_No-Seriously!" The unfortunate language choice of the title geared at a relatively small population within a narrow region of one country, when addressed to the whole world, will tend to filter out a lot of people who would otherwise join.  Those from other countries might not figure it out at all, and others might decide that it is meant for superficial flashy pseudo-musicians, and so stay away.  In fact, the site seems to be more serious than many sites that pretend to be serious.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Thanks for your comments keypeg!

[db05]

The articles are excellent.  Maybe the site's title can be altered slightly, such as "PimpMyPiano_No-Seriously!"
...
 In fact, the site seems to be more serious than many sites that pretend to be serious.

Agreed. 

cherub, I'll check out your site from time to time. Haven't joined yet, though.