Rigoletto paraphrase

[birba]

Alright.  Ive been playing this piece for years.  And very well if I must say so myself.  Not really that difficult, brilliant and very effective.  There is one DUMB passage that has always been a problem for me, and, in fact, the last time I played it, I changed it and played another cadenza.  Something Im sure Signor Thalberg will have nothing against.  Its the chromatic cadenza in descending alternating minor 6ths.  A STUPID passage that is impossible for me to play fast without a "glich".  Any suggestions?  If not, Ill continue to play my own cadenza. (And I dont think Im the only one with this problem.  I heard an excellent cd of an italian pianist who has also changed it!)

[thierry13]

Something Im sure Signor Thalberg will have nothing against.

Wait, are you talking about THE rigoletto paraphrase, the one written by Liszt, or did Thalberg write another one 

[birba]

Wait, are you talking about THE rigoletto paraphrase, the one written by Liszt, or did Thalberg write another one 

  No, I'm sorry, I was referring to someone who contributes to this sight and calls himself Thalberg something.  When I asked about the tremolo free vs. metronomic thing in the Liebestod, he said that I should bloomin do what I want because Liszt's compositions were more like blueprints sometimes.  And he's not all wrong there.

[thalbergmad]

Definately sounds like something I said.

I am of the opinion that at the heart of Romanticism is complete freedom. The chains of form should be cut off and nothing should be put in the way of ones own personal expression. When i was playing seriously and studying Liszt, i would think nothing of mixing parts of the 1837 Paganini Studies with the latter version. I remember my teachers jaw hitting the ground when i once did this in a lesson, but he liked the result.

Liszt himself probably never played the same piece the same way twice and I would be amazed if Thalberg did. Neither of them could resist adding in their own embellishments when playing other peoples work, so why should we do so when playing theirs?

I expect i am probably in the minority here and whilst i have never studied at a music school, i wonder if nowadays sticking to the score is very much the norm. But, if we all did this, each rendition of a piece would sound pretty much the same as that by another pianist.

From my own listening experiences, i feel the playing of Liszt is in decline.

Thal

[mephisto]

The way I see it only an idiot would have anything against changing sometimes in a piece such as the Rigoletto paraphrase. With the Liszt sonata it is different.

[ramseytheii]

I don't know what your problem is with that cadenza, but I would start by not worrying about a fingering.  You should rather be able to play this passage with any fingering, whether you just play 1 -5 all the way down in both hands, or change according to the sixths.  This passage doesn't rely on fingerwork at all.

That said, anytime you play double notes, the trick to playing them well is this sleight of hand - imagine in two consecutive sixths, that the lower note goes to the upper, and the upper to the lower.  I've attached a little pdf to show what I mean.  If you approach double notes in this way, it is always much easier.  It's a mental trick that relaxes the mechanism and allows you to lpay lots of double notes, quickly.

Enjoy.

Walter Ramsey

[birba]

I don't know what your problem is with that cadenza, but I would start by not worrying about a fingering. ...pay lots of double notes, quickly.

Enjoy.

Walter Ramsey

Hmmm.  Interesting.  will try.