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Topic: A couple of technical questions about Ravel Jeux d'eau (Read 18066 times)

pianomom697

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Posts: 6

A couple of technical questions about Ravel Jeux d'eau

on: August 01, 2008, 12:45:06 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm de-lurking in hopes of getting some of the great advice I've been reading in this forum!

I'm learning Jeux d'eau, and there are no fingerings in the score I'm using, and there are a couple of things I'm not sure how to approach:

1) The sextuplet figures in mm. 78-79:
I'm using fingerings 4-5, 2-3, 1-1, 4-5, 2-3, 1-1, but I'm having trouble avoiding breaking up the pairs of notes, if that makes any sense. Especially with the 2-3 pair... my fingers keep wanting to play them separately. Any advice on hand position or other fingerings, etc.? I'm trying not to kill my wrists with the fast repetitive motions...

2) In measures such as 65, I'm leaning toward using 1-3-1-3-1-3, etc., but my thumb gets a bit heavy at times, breaking up the flow. Any ideas for alternate fingerings here?

I'd welcome any technical suggestions! I've wanted to play this piece since college in the early 90s, but was chicken. Luckily, I'm past the horrible initial stages of READING this difficult Ravel, what with the accidentals and all!

p.s. This edit is because using the "tab" key to indent resulted in hitting "post!"

Thanks so much in advance for any help.
Gab

Another P.S.: Since I'm getting kind of nit-picky anyway, I have 2 very small "note" questions.

1) In m. 53, beat 4, the rhythm of the B# to A motive in the RH is slightly different than in all the other occurrences (Dover edition... Eschig, I think?)... anyone know if this is intentional?

2) In m. 61, the very last dyad in the RH would have a B# carried over, but I think I'm hearing a B natural on recordings... ?

Sorry to be so picky about this. It's just so hard to unlearn once something is set in the hands. Thanks again!

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ramseytheii

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2488

Re: A couple of technical questions about Ravel Jeux d'eau

Reply #1 on: August 01, 2008, 09:29:13 PM

Quote from: pianomom697 on August 01, 2008, 12:45:06 AM

1) The sextuplet figures in mm. 78-79:
I'm using fingerings 4-5, 2-3, 1-1, 4-5, 2-3, 1-1, but I'm having trouble avoiding breaking up the pairs of notes, if that makes any sense. Especially with the 2-3 pair... my fingers keep wanting to play them separately. Any advice on hand position or other fingerings, etc.? I'm trying not to kill my wrists with the fast repetitive motions...

This is the correct fingering. Ravel was using a specialized technical approach that doesn't require any fingerwork, just rotate the arm thumb-wards (I'm embarassed to say I can't remember if this is pronation or suppination) and let the weight of the arm play the groups of seconds. This actually doesn't involve the wrist at all. The whole forearm rotates. When you have to go from one octave to another (ie one hand position to another) make sure you employ a slight counter-clockwise motion of the elbow.

It helps this passage to play, and to hear, if you put accents on the top two seconds (the ones that repeat), and the bottom two seconds (the ones that repeat). You will find this difficult at first, and that is why you should do it.

Quote

2) In measures such as 65, I'm leaning toward using 1-3-1-3-1-3, etc., but my thumb gets a bit heavy at times, breaking up the flow. Any ideas for alternate fingerings here?

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean in the left hand? 1-3, 2-5, all the way down.

if you are using that fingering in the RH, with those C-sharp arpeggios in fifths, all I can say is yikes. This must be played 1-2-3-5! There aren't any other options.

Quote

I'd welcome any technical suggestions! I've wanted to play this piece since college in the early 90s, but was chicken. Luckily, I'm past the horrible initial stages of READING this difficult Ravel, what with the accidentals and all!

Ravel is sometimes more difficult to read, than play!

Quote

Another P.S.: Since I'm getting kind of nit-picky anyway, I have 2 very small "note" questions.

1) In m. 53, beat 4, the rhythm of the B# to A motive in the RH is slightly different than in all the other occurrences (Dover edition... Eschig, I think?)... anyone know if this is intentional?

Definitely itnentional, and it should be brought out!

Quote

2) In m. 61, the very last dyad in the RH would have a B# carried over, but I think I'm hearing a B natural on recordings... ?

B-natural!

Walter Ramsey

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pianomom697

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 6

Re: A couple of technical questions about Ravel Jeux d'eau

Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 10:19:52 PM

Hi, Walter,

Thank you so much for your response!

Quote

This actually doesn't involve the wrist at all. The whole forearm rotates. When you have to go from one octave to another (ie one hand position to another) make sure you employ a slight counter-clockwise motion of the elbow.

Oh, ok, that is very helpful. One of my ongoing struggles is with using too much wrist, too much motion on each note, even in flowy Impressionist passages. Could explain the frequent pain.

Quote

Quote
2) In measures such as 65, I'm leaning toward using 1-3-1-3-1-3, etc., but my thumb gets a bit heavy at times, breaking up the flow. Any ideas for alternate fingerings here?

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean in the left hand? 1-3, 2-5, all the way down. If you are using that fingering in the RH, with those C-sharp arpeggios in fifths, all I can say is yikes. This must be played 1-2-3-5! There aren't any other options.

*sheepishly*... I actually did mean the RH there. So, this would also involve a lot of rotation, then? I had previously tried those 1-2-3-5 fingerings, but since I have a pretty wide span, I was basically trying to do this by spreading the heck out of my fingers, but the range of the passage is just too wide for that kind of horrible technique. I'm still at the slow practice stage, so now I know what to do next. Thank you for the fingering help... I really need a well-marked score!

Quote

1) In m. 53, beat 4, the rhythm of the B# to A motive in the RH is slightly different than in all the other occurrences (Dover edition... Eschig, I think?)... anyone know if this is intentional?

Definitely intentional, and it should be brought out!

Oh, ok, great! It was kind of hard to hear in the recordings. The little things go by so quickly!

Quote

2) In m. 61, the very last dyad in the RH would have a B# carried over, but I think I'm hearing a B natural on recordings... ?

B-natural!

Thanks for clarifying! I guess it's a typo in Dover, then...

Again, I appreciate the help very much. I knew I came to the right place!
Gab

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