what do to with chopins nocturne, opus 48 no.1

[frank_48]

hi, i have currently hit a wall with this nocturne, most of you will probably guess that its the doppio movemento section, and you would be right. i just cant seem to figure out how to play it smoothly with both hands, i can play it ok seperate hands but its already taken a long time to get up to this point. does anyone think i should leave this piece and pick it up again later when my technique is more advanced or should i just keep working on it?

[gerryjay]

dear frank:
what an amazing piece. however, a bit problematic to solve.

about your question, it'd be quite interesting to know what else did you play up to now, and what are playing along with this nocturne. i mean, some background info about your piano experience.

in the meantime, there is something that perhaps could help. to play very soft is as difficult as playing very loud. so, don't struggle with that now: work normally HT, concerning about the polyrhythms, because they usually sound a mess. btw, don't push speed to much, but don't play it too slow as well. in other words: find a mid point of both strenght and speed where you are confortable to play it HT.

when you're done, to achieve your desired interpretation would be rather easy. anyway, depending on your background, perhaps it's too much for now, especially because you have several layers, four or more, to control: bass, lh figuration, rh chords with inner voices to render, rh melody.

btw, have you ever played any four-voiced fugue? it could help a lot solving that.

best!

[frank_48]

hi gerryjay thanks for your reply.

you might be just a tad bit shocked to find out that ive only been playing piano for....11 months.. i know..i should have probably waited..3 or 4 years before i attempted it but i really wanted to play it. started it back in earlier this year and for the most part it was a smooth ride. i had some doubts wether i could even finish it but my teacher believed i could do it so i took up the challenge. but yeah.. not so easy now in the past 11 months i have completed the first movement of moonlight sonata, chopins prelude, op28 no 4, fur elise and various other easy bach/mozart pieces + some czerny.

btw im 18.

[gerryjay]

well, boy...
you know that this nocturne is not a mate of your other works, don't you?
anyway, i think that anything is possible but the great question is: why? i mean, if you add all the time you did study this piece, and all the time you will use in the future, you could do a lot of simpler pieces. furthermore, it's somewhat unlikely that you would play this at a high level by now. so, your previous goal of playing it smoothly HT is probably beyond your current scope.

taken that for granted, it's your call: keep up with the nocturne, and let it be (because you want really badly to play it, and assume the fact it won't be that great afterall) or give up for now, and resume it after playing the other steps in the path.

best wishes!

[frank_48]

point taken.

when i had started this piece, it was at a time when i did not know as much about music as i do today and i thought by the time i will get up to this section i will be good enough. how poorly mistaken i was . it was never a point to be proven that "if i play this i will be awesome" i really loved this piece from the first time i heard it and hearing it over and over again wasnt enough, i wanted to play it. i wouldnt really call it time wasted. i suppose max it would only take me another 1-2 months. which is a long time for 2 pages imo. maybe i will put the book of nocturnes away for about six months and develop my technique more.

i dont suppose the term "practice makes perfect" would apply to this particular piece would it? i mean, if its clearly out of your level then...

[gerryjay]

i think you already have the answer. but let me add something.

using chopin as an example, let's suppose that your idea of two months to finish that is right (and i guess that is possible), and add my idea that after that your playing will not satisfy you 100% is right as well. do you agree with both? well, let's add (that's really impossible to tell, but anyway  ) a couple of years to the development of your piano skills in a broad sense and done! i predict that after that you would play this piece nicely.

what interests me now is what you do have in the other hand, so to speak. you did play his fourth prelude, a wonderful yet one of the easiest piece he ever composed. why not, in the same time span, play a couple of easy and short mazurkas (there are many), one waltz (opus 69 are great calls), an easier nocturne (opus 37/1 or opus 55/1), another prelude (g major, d-flat major) and a polonaise of opus 26 or opus 40. if you are deep into piano, you can finish that (or most of it) in about two years (along with another composers' works, to balance your experience) and then you'll be very able to play your nocturne without major problems. why the idea? same effort, same time span: one piece finished versus at least four pieces finished.

please notice that this suggestion of repertory sequence is just to provide an example. your own taste of chopin and your teacher's knowledge about both chopin and you are the real guides to that.

how does it sound to you?

about your "practice makes perfect" question, it's always a possibility. as i said before, it's also unlikely, but i have seen many strange things in the past to doubt anything by now...

best wishes!

[quantum]

I took up this piece twice.  First time I decided it was too difficult and put it aside.  Second time I got through and played it for my undergrad recital.  Yes the doppio movemento is difficult, I probably spent 3 weeks on it with slow diligent practice.  It is a very emotionally charged section, but I found that patience along with good practice habits really helps here.  This is the kind of section you really want to make as solid as possible technically so you can concentrate on the musical aspect later on. 

Isolation of the technical elements would help.  Eg: practice tapping and counting 3 against 4 on your lap. 

Gerry's advice is sound.  You may wish to go with easier pieces first.  The Nouvelle Etude in Ab may be of interest as it deals with polyrhythms.  I'd second the Polonaise 26/1.  The middle section is quite literally a trio, with 3 independent parts and would serve as good prep for the Nocturne.  Likewise, the C#-minor etude has similar features. 

[frank_48]

thanks everyone for their advice. i have decided to leave it and work on some eaiser preludes/mazurkas for the time being. and i will pick up the nocturne again maybe in 6 months or so. i am happy that i started chopins cantabile in B flat major and got that finished in a day or so. can anyone reccommend a chopin waltz/mazurka suitable for my skill level?