Getting Demoralized... (yes, another student feeling sorry for themself)

[kelly_kelly]

Yes, well... I had a lesson today. Towards the end,  I was working on my Chopin Etude (25-2). She was having me play it slowly in groups of six. At this point the next student comes in. She is at least 2-3 years younger than me. With someone else in the room I choke up even more than usual, embarrassed to be working on something so simple, and my teacher is having a difficult time just getting me to relax. Then she asks me to play a piece that I have been working on for a while. It is completely memorized and by all rights I should be able to play it well. Of course it came out an absolute mess. Then, as I'm walking out, already too humiliated to look my teacher in the eye, I notice that the next student is carrying, among other things, the Grieg concerto. I practically run out of the house and start crying.

I know this sounds pathetic. But sometimes I wish that, just once, something would come out the way I want it to sound. I love music so much! I know I don't have much talent, and so I would be content playing simple pieces for the rest of my life. But somehow I manage to screw even those up! I'm beginneing to think its a lost cause.

[danny elfboy]

I'd like to help you.
There are many "disconnection" mistakes that people who really love music and want to play do. Disconnection mistakes are all those habit that curtail the connection between you and music, between you and kinestethic, between you and your internal pulse, between you and your instruments.

Often, expecially for someone that talks like you do, it's not a matter of technique but a matter of awarenss, relaxation, control, fluidity, confidence, coordination, belonging, ease.

Maybe you can send me a personal message and we can chat.
Let me know

[kelly_kelly]

Thanks a lot, dannyelfboy. I think the concept of "disconnection" makes a lot of sense, and I think many of the examples you've mentioned may apply to me. I have a lot of trouble with the body movements involved in piano; for example, I don't instinctively know how to "prepare" myself before playing. While I've seen how many pianists seem to take some time setting their hands down upon the keys, I tend to just start abruptly, without taking a breath. Wrist technique doesn't come naturally to me either. And I definitely have trouble relaxing. Only when my teacher stops me and points it out do I realize how tense my upper body becomes. Confidence is another issue - I get very self-conscious while playing, in front of my teacher and sometimes even when I think my family might be listening... It's interesting that even though piano is my first instrument, I feel infinitely more comfortable performing viola. I'm not sure if that's because I feel more secure technically, because the music is less complex, because I've had more performing experience, or because I have much more confidence in my abilities, but I can perform viola feeling totally in control of the music and my instrument. If I make a mistake, it doesn't ruin the rest of my performance, whereas in piano every mistake makes me progressively more tense and self-conscious.

[mukubella]

.

[Bob]

Don't worry about the other student.  The Grieg concerto is one of the easiert concerto isn't it?  They were probably playing, but maybe not.  Maybe they just want to play it.  Maybe they play it badly.  You're mind can play tricks on you if you start hearing polished performance in your mind along with that other student.

Other than that, what's the worst that can happen?  The student behind you is  a genius.  The rest of the teaching studio is filled with geniuses.  Maybe you suck?  And if that's the case, so what?  You can still improve on something.  It might be a mismatch of where you think you are or want to be and where you really are.  The cold slap in the face.  Just reassess and keep working on things. 

Working on a Chopin Etude isn't anything to be ashamed of.  And a 2-3 years difference doesn't mean much at all. 

It's sounds like it's having someone else you age playing at a higher level hearing your playing is an issue.  Just focus in on your own playing and do your best.  Then work on not pysching yourself out like that. 

[squinchy]

Eh, little children smoke me all the time, and not just in piano (see also: math meets). They're also thinner. I just remember to compete against only myself, and to remember that objectively, my playing and knowledge of music is alright.

Conveniently, little children start on violin and don't have the opportunity to own me on viola until they're quite older, or at least, larger. [Little children who grow to the same height as me tend to stay on violin.] And you can ALWAYS see your hands.

[kelly_kelly]

The strange thing is that I had generally stopped comparing myself long ago. I have grown to accept that there are always people who are more talented, who are more dedicated, etc. I think seeing the other student reminded me more of how little I had achieved relative to my own goals, not anyone else's. It was my last lesson of the summer, and I had wanted to really push myself during the summer, but somehow I couldn't manage to really get anywhere. What really bothers me is not that the pieces I play aren't difficult, but that I can't seem to play them well and I can't stay relaxed.

[monkeyyy]

so, what are you doing here? Practice 
And I don't know why you play the piano? If it's supposed to be for enjoyment, lower your goals a bit, be kind to yourself!

[shingo]

Also try not to think to hard about your future goals. If you have ever read '1984' you have to exercise a form of double think, keeping the goals in mind so that you do not lose track of your progress, but at the same time relax and forget about them and enjoy the journey. Piano is never going to be something you 'finish' so adopting an attitude in which you are waiting to complete it will only hinder your current progress.

I know it is a lot easier to deliver these pieces of advice than to adhere to them as I myself frequently feel the same as you do, but it is just a matter of reminding one's self of the joy within the journey.

[db05]

And I don't know why you play the piano? If it's supposed to be for enjoyment, lower your goals a bit, be kind to yourself!

Er, I don't think she'd be feeling like this if playing piano was only "for enjoyment". There are other things she can enjoy. And I don't think anyone can get to the level of Chopin Etudes without being serious.

I don't want to start another thread, so if you don't mind...

There's this boy who's 13 on youtube. He only started in 2005, and won the Bach competition in a year. His parents are friends of the family. I was skeptic at first, but we went to see his recital recently. He's really good. How come he can play Bach WTC while after a year, I'm still struggling with the easy minuets?

Please, don't tell me it's talent. That's not the only factor. Might be his training. I can't do anything right now about my training. Practice, practice, practice? I practice as I can, until either my fingers or brain or heart gets tired. Sometimes I feel guilty that maybe I'm too lazy, lack perseverance and all... Is that it? How can that be helped? (I already started a thread about knowing what I want. But it's not specifically for piano.)

It's not that I want to play fast, virtuosic pieces, concertos, or even the most popular pieces. I don't want to be a concert artist; I want to get to the point where I can play the pieces that I want. (I already have a tentative list.) And seeing the fact that this boy can play, it means I should be able to do it too with correct practice. Starting late shouldn't be a problem (see Marc McCarthy). So it all boils down to training and practice methods. I want want want to experience that. Especially because I want to teach in the future.

But but but. My family members are raving about this boy. It's so annoying, especially since they know I'm studying piano. They want me to play as well, and I can't. At least not yet. I'm so vexed! I don't love those pieces, but I sure am jealous. I can't even play Fur Elise, and my sister did that when she was young.

[concerto_love]

I felt the same one too last week... It's so sad...

[danny elfboy]

Please, don't tell me it's talent. That's not the only factor. Might be his training. I can't do anything right now about my training. Practice, practice, practice? I practice as I can, until either my fingers or brain or heart gets tired.

There are a lot of factors and some are so subtle and circumstantial which is completely impossible to know the answer. Whatever little choice, little action and little circumstance you deal with everyday shape uniquelly your life and your skills.

I actually think that one of the factors compromising you is pushing so much effort in learning. When your fingers, your brain and your heart get tired you learn nothing, just stress yourself and your planing apparatus. We all have a limit, a limit of data to memorize or information to understand of physical patterns to automatize. If you're always exceeding those limits you're not only preventing the learning of new things but unlearning the old things as well.

I have already explained that most of piano skills is a matter of attitude.
Some people consciously cultivate such attitude while other people have already developed those attitudes in their life. Patience, confidence, control, coordination, musical sensitivity, joyfull exploration, awareness, calm, pose. It's likely that young guy have most of these attributes developed; either because of has been aware of them or either because of its general living environment and a lot of other factors.

Let me use "weight loss" as an analogy:

1) It's useless to wonder why you neighbour can eat more and lose weight while you don't. The reason for his/her weight loss in spite of more consumed food aremany. You should only care about your weight loss!

2) If you decrease your calories so has to burn more calories than you get from food you lose weight. But there's a limit to that. If you lower your calories so much that your bod detects starvation, your metabolic caloric consumption will lower and you'll get adapted to use fat less energy just to survive and this will hinder your weight loss.

3) Weight loss too needs pose, calm, confidence, control. If you just get obsessed with food and eat only unpalatable disgusting fibrous food in order to eat like a rabbit you'll soon get cravings and go in a binge. All the stress, anticipation, negative attitude won't help your weight loss. You'll lose far less weight than the person who eats in a relaxed manner, try to maintain a caloric control but keeps eating delicious food and enjoying life.

4) The people who are called "gifted" are not gifted with a body that doesn't gain weight. They're gifted with a instinctive signal for caloric balance. In other words they know instinctively when they are in a caloric balance, deficit of excess. So they can eat everything because they know when to stop. Such instinct is formed in the early years of life and completely destroyed by parents who force their children to empty the plate or eat even when they're not hungry and would rather leave the table and go to play.

Sometimes I feel guilty that maybe I'm too lazy, lack perseverance and all... Is that it?

No, it's probably the opposite.
I will keep using the weight loss analogy.
The key is eating less of healthy foods.
You're probably eating too much of unhealthy food.
The idea that more is always better is a nonsense.

Today they published a study from West Virginia university that proved that working that studying too much decreases exponentially productivity. Studying less and working less decrease the producitivity per hour and decrease hugely mistakes and flaws.

It's not that I want to play fast, virtuosic pieces, concertos, or even the most popular pieces. I don't want to be a concert artist

I think the point is that to being a talented players of virtuosic pieces and concertos you need the amount of dedication and hard work typical of someone who is planning to become a concertist. That's why I have never met a total amateur whose only goal is to entertain friends with the family piano being able to play those pieces.

[db05]

I actually think that one of the factors compromising you is pushing so much effort in learning. When your fingers, your brain and your heart get tired you learn nothing, just stress yourself and your planing apparatus. We all have a limit, a limit of data to memorize or information to understand of physical patterns to automatize. If you're always exceeding those limits you're not only preventing the learning of new things but unlearning the old things as well.

Er, no, am not pushing too hard if that's what you mean. I watch myself so I don't get that far. I've learned a bit from making that mistake and paying for it with a couple of days off the piano. That was the worst, I don't even want to remember.

No, it's probably the opposite.
I will keep using the weight loss analogy.
The key is eating less of healthy foods.
You're probably eating too much of unhealthy food.
The idea that more is always better is a nonsense.

That's confusing. Maybe you mean MORE of healthy food, and less unhealthy??

I think the point is that to being a talented players of virtuosic pieces and concertos you need the amount of dedication and hard work typical of someone who is planning to become a concertist. That's why I have never met a total amateur whose only goal is to entertain friends with the family piano being able to play those pieces.

So you think I'm aiming too low? Aim for the sun and hit the clouds; aim for the clouds and hit the ground, is that it?  Don't get me wrong. I looooooove piano music. I play for the music, not just to "entertain friends with the family piano". And I want to teach. If my student says, "I want to play virtuosic pieces and concertos," I want to be able to help.

[danny elfboy]

Er, no, am not pushing too hard if that's what you mean. I watch myself so I don't get that far. I've learned a bit from making that mistake and paying for it with a couple of days off the piano. That was the worst, I don't even want to remember.

That's confusing. Maybe you mean MORE of healthy food, and less unhealthy??

No, because if you eat a lot of healthy food they become automatically unhealthy.
You must moderate the amount and point at the maximum quality possible.
Just because a food is healthy "organic avocado" it doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want. So with food the secret is "minizing the amount of calories by maximizing the quality of every calorie"

So with piano is a matter of decreasing the amount of time by maximizing the quality of each minute. If each minute spent at the piano is not high quality you'll need more minutes which will means too much time spent at the piano and the obvious consequences like phsical and mental fatigue. If each minute is high quality you will consequently need less time and will be able to find a correct balance. That's doesn't mean though that you can overdose on quality time. When quality time becomes excessive it becomes as bad as low quality time witht the same lowered learning and memorizing potential .

So you think I'm aiming too low? Aim for the sun and hit the clouds; aim for the clouds and hit the ground, is that it?  Don't get me wrong. I looooooove piano music. I play for the music, not just to "entertain friends with the family piano". And I want to teach. If my student says, "I want to play virtuosic pieces and concertos," I want to be able to help.

I just think that certain hobbies become professions because the time and dedication required (often full time) doesn't make it possible to do otherwise. A professional writer, writing as a job, has enough daily time to dedicate to professional writing. If he were someone working in a factory 10 hours a day, he wouldn't likely have enough time to write to the level of a professional writer. It requires time, effort and educative updates  and often extensive researches about the environment the novel is going to be set.
Hobbists don't have a chance to go so far with their music unless they have a part time job or unless they dedicate all their time to music with the goal of making it a work.

You are not very likely to find students that will want to play virtuosic pieces and concertors. That kind of repertory comes after many years of beginning and intermediate piano lessons. Usually it is touched only by conservatories and music accademies. So if they're interested in that kind of repertory they're already thinking of pursuing an accademical career in music, and hence there will be accademy professors teaching them those things.

[db05]

No, because if you eat a lot of healthy food they become automatically unhealthy.
You must moderate the amount and point at the maximum quality possible.
Just because a food is healthy "organic avocado" it doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want. So with food the secret is "minizing the amount of calories by maximizing the quality of every calorie"

Nobody has put it that way to me before. I get it about moderating the amount, yes. Thanks.

I understand maximizing each minute, but what do you mean, an overdose of quality time? If it's an overdose, I wouldn't call it quality time.

I just think that certain hobbies become professions because the time and dedication required (often full time) doesn't make it possible to do otherwise. A professional writer, writing as a job, has enough daily time to dedicate to professional writing. If he were someone working in a factory 10 hours a day, he wouldn't likely have enough time to write to the level of a professional writer. It requires time, effort and educative updates  and often extensive researches about the environment the novel is going to be set.
Hobbists don't have a chance to go so far with their music unless they have a part time job or unless they dedicate all their time to music with the goal of making it a work.

Hobby?  You lost me there. Piano is no hobby.

You are not very likely to find students that will want to play virtuosic pieces and concertors. That kind of repertory comes after many years of beginning and intermediate piano lessons. Usually it is touched only by conservatories and music accademies. So if they're interested in that kind of repertory they're already thinking of pursuing an accademical career in music, and hence there will be accademy professors teaching them those things.

Guess there's no need to worry about that...?

Er, is 3 years considered many? Just thinking out loud here...

Considering that most piano students will be either kids or adults with time to spare, they can't all go to conservatories if they happen to want to play that repertory. Why limit them?

[momopi]

You sound like my student in English. She's a teenage Korean girl. She hired me as her tutor for her TOEFL review. She's very good in English but doesn't believe it herself. The exam is still months away (in December, actually). But she's already nervous. She wants to meet four times a week but I insisted that thrice a week review should be sufficient. (I don't want her to be stressed.)

She's very intelligent and I admire her for her willingness to learn but it's sad that she cannot appreciate herself...

[danny elfboy]

Nobody has put it that way to me before. I get it about moderating the amount, yes. Thanks.

I understand maximizing each minute, but what do you mean, an overdose of quality time? If it's an overdose, I wouldn't call it quality time.

Exactly, an excess of quanitity automatically reduces the quality.

Hobby?  You lost me there. Piano is no hobby.

For many it is an hobby. For many music is an hobby.
You can call activity if you want or even passion, but I still think that the 90% of those who think of piano as a passion try to stick with it either in college or in life. I'm not saying it is always possible but I have never heard of someone working 10 hours in a factory and playing advanced repertory with huge passion and musical sensitivity. If they exist they're very rare.

Guess there's no need to worry about that...?

Er, is 3 years considered many? Just thinking out loud here...

No 3 years is nothing.
In a european conservatory you're supposed to have learned some basic theory and music in a private school or something. You enter in the conservatory as a late beginner at grade 1. The grade are 12 and you begin to tackle virtuoso concertos only around grade 9-10. This means that in the meantime you have gone through 20 exams including 1 exam for harmony and one for theory. You can't move from Bach Inventions to virtuoso repertory. It doesn't only require the mastering of other technique and repertoire but also and advanced knowledge in theory and harmony.

Considering that most piano students will be either kids or adults with time to spare, they can't all go to conservatories if they happen to want to play that repertory. Why limit them?

If they come to you it is because they don't want to pursue the conservatory path hence they don't want to play that repertorie. You can't learn to play that repertoire by being a worker or a student and having 60 minutes of piano lessons a week and 60-90 minutes a day to devote to the piano. Private teachers almost never prepare their students for that repertoire and if they do they're just preparing them for the conervatory or university or are supporting them with extra lessons other than the one they're having at university or conservatory.

Private teaching can bring you only so far. To become a pianist who can play the repertoire you're talking about it would require lot of money, lot of time and also a new grand piano, expensive partiture, an isolated environment where to practice hours everyday without disturbing people. Usually someone who knows music and piano will be his/her life goes to way greater extent than someone playing amateurily and having a lessons once a week, in order to pursue music totally. That also means making specific choices influenced by piano (moving to a more isolated house, spending lot of money for the best piano, moving to a city with better schools and more halls, spending a fortune on sheets, taking extra lessons with expensive famous pianists, going to concertos and more. Playing the pieces you're talking about is a next level, a level which requires far more consistence, time, dedication and also life changes. It is something that someone who wants to go to a conservatory or wants to pursue a career in music would do, not the average amateur player.

When people choose a matter to study in university you know it's because they plan to make that thing their whole life. You would never expect someone to spend 5 years in university to learn more about a certain topic but not trying to pursue a career in it.
But it's also true that you would never get the level of details you get from a university course in a once week private lesson. Let's say math for example. School and private teaching bring you so far. But you would never expect private teaching in a once alesson week to teach you what an university classes in math would.

What you're talking about is the difference between the guys who are playing a basketball match behind my house and an NBA player.

[db05]

For many it is an hobby. For many music is an hobby.
You can call activity if you want or even passion, but I still think that the 90% of those who think of piano as a passion try to stick with it either in college or in life. I'm not saying it is always possible but I have never heard of someone working 10 hours in a factory and playing advanced repertory with huge passion and musical sensitivity. If they exist they're very rare.

I learned that from my teachers that it is possible to be a serious musician or serious "hobbyist" (though I obviously don't like the term) without doing it full-time. 10 hours in a factory is of course, extreme. I'm talking about part-time jobs and studying other courses. It is very possible. Some of our teachers expect us to get serious despite jobs, courses, etc. Very few, like me, are full-time music students.

No 3 years is nothing.
...
What you're talking about is the difference between the guys who are playing a basketball match behind my house and an NBA player.

If 3 years is nothing, the boy I talked about wouldn't exist! An "NBA player" in 3 years. And at his age, he can even opt to take a different path entirely while playing piano.

I understand what you're trying to say, but if I were to accept this, I'd be even more demoralized...  I would like to be more hopeful, please.

[danny elfboy]

I learned that from my teachers that it is possible to be a serious musician or serious "hobbyist" (though I obviously don't like the term) without doing it full-time. 10 hours in a factory is of course, extreme. I'm talking about part-time jobs and studying other courses. It is very possible. Some of our teachers expect us to get serious despite jobs, courses, etc. Very few, like me, are full-time music students.

Teachers often have wrong or exaggerated expection that usually make them too demanding which is actually worse for many students, since often doing a lot means doing too much and doing nothing very good and a lot of things very bad.

Of course getting serious means a lot of different things.
Most teachers expect their students to get serious in the sense that their beginners and intermediate pieces are supposed to sound very good and professional not amateur and full of mistakes and I agree with them. But rarely a private teachers not preparing someone for the conservatory or accademy by "serious" means becoming able to play Mephisto Waltz as a pro. The majority would never expect that as they know that kind of piano proficiency requires a lot of time, lot of dedication, an high quality grand piano, hours and hours of daily practice (hence de-sonorizing the rooms), hundreds of expensive partitures and way more than 60 minutes of lessons a week.

If 3 years is nothing, the boy I talked about wouldn't exist! An "NBA player" in 3 years. And at his age, he can even opt to take a different path entirely while playing piano.

He is a rare case and there's no doubt or question about it.
Not even the most talented would learn that much in 3 years.
Mozart used to get angry at those claiming he was a genuine because he remembered working very hard and devoting most of his life to music in order to reach the level he obtained. Some people seems born with a gift while usually they are predisposed in ways impossible to predict but what they're have done in their life. For example a person  using his hands a lot of carve foods in the boyscouts and having a grandmother listening to classical music every day would subtly makes him very advanced at the piano even as a beginner because some of the coordination and musical intution is alreayd developed but other unpredictable activities. It doesn't make any sense to obsess with this young guy because we will NEVER know what really influenced his extraordinary musical path but it is extraordinary, period. A great 10 year old israelian player for example has an extraordinary talent but have been studying piano since the age of 3. It takes far more than three years to reach the level you're talking about and the extraordinary cases you hear about are just that: extraordinary cases; not certainly models to imitate (that would only cause frustration and resentment) And that influence negative piano playing way more than not practicing for 6 months.

[db05]

Teachers often have wrong or exaggerated expection that usually make them too demanding which is actually worse for many students, since often doing a lot means doing too much and doing nothing very good and a lot of things very bad.
...
He is a rare case and there's no doubt or question about it.
Not even the most talented would learn that much in 3 years.
...
It takes far more than three years to reach the level you're talking about and the extraordinary cases you hear about are just that: extraordinary cases; not certainly models to imitate (that would only cause frustration and resentment) And that influence negative piano playing way more than not practicing for 6 months.

Okay. 
Am twice as much demoralized now.  Reality is painful.

[danny elfboy]

Okay. 
Am twice as much demoralized now.  Reality is painful.

You're not doing your piano playing any favour.
Focus on what you're doing right now.
What are you studying? Are you satisfied with the rendition of your actual pieces?
Are you satisfied with your technical control right now? Are you so confident of having mastery what you're practicing right now to ask your teacher to move on at once?
What's the point of wondering about future pieces when you have so much to focus and learn in the present?

It's like worrying about being able to cook a burgignon when I'm still burning a simple fried egg. The future and our future successes are built on the present, the successes of the present makes us hopeful about the future. Failing to collect successes now because of an obsession with the future (something which doesn't exist at any level right now and it's just in our imagination) is not helpful to either your present or your future.

I'm not saying you won't become a great player. You will, if that's what you want. But it will take time, dedication, patience, passion and at some point you will realize that music is requiring such a large part of your daily time that you'll want it become your work: which actually seems something you've already made your mind up about since you want to become a teacher it seems.

[danny elfboy]

There's this boy who's 13 on youtube. He only started in 2005, and won the Bach competition in a year.

Can you provide more info about this player?
Where are his videos?

[lostinidlewonder]

I have learned, through teaching students piano, that not everyone is able to perform in front of other people. Some students I first started teaching get very nervous (hands shake while playing) when I listened to them play! This insecurity is very difficult to take out of them.

Eventually however they become accustomed to play for me, often when we start a lesson I will distract them from piano talk and talk about their week, something that they have been doing which isn't piano. This usually makes them feel more comfortable then willing to play for me without nerves when we do have to play. If I just jump straight into business they can often feel stressed out, rushed, put on the spot.

You should set goals for the short term, mid term and long term. You should always be looking at your goals and be excited to move towards achieving them. If you are totally immersed in what you have to do, then you will not care what other people are doing. Well, you will care about what they do as a matter of interest, but it will not act as a source of demoralization or even inspiration.

I've had students listen to me play and say, "wow I wish I could play like that, that inspires me." I always say, it shouldn't inspire you to produce the same results on the piano, but you should enjoy listening to it, this is the best part of music! However you know the hard work that goes into making music sound good, some people think that when they hear good playing that it is all automatic and without blood, sweat and tears. This magician trick that us musicians pull off, that our playing comes without any effort, many people believe and are at awe. This only makes them think that playing at the highest levels is impossible for them and only for the elite. You get back what you put in, that is very obvious when you study music.

If you have your path set out, this give you confidence in your struggles now. Goal setting is extremely important and not always something you can do by yourself, there are many things we don't know that we don't know which can slow us down if we miss it.

If you catch yourself comparing your ability with others, getting nervous playing for other pianists because you feel like you have to flex your ability to prove something to them, etc, all of this is immature thinking, but a thinking which we can easily remain within for the rest of our lives! We must develop this out of this vicious cycle, consider letting go of our competitive nature putting full force on getting the job done while we study our music, blocking out all those other distractions which make our efforts at the keyboard insincere. This is often asking for us to change our view on life more so than piano.

[db05]

You're not doing your piano playing any favour.
Focus on what you're doing right now.
What are you studying? Are you satisfied with the rendition of your actual pieces?
Are you satisfied with your technical control right now? Are you so confident of having mastery what you're practicing right now to ask your teacher to move on at once?
What's the point of wondering about future pieces when you have so much to focus and learn in the present?
...
The future and our future successes are built on the present, the successes of the present makes us hopeful about the future. Failing to collect successes now because of an obsession with the future (something which doesn't exist at any level right now and it's just in our imagination) is not helpful to either your present or your future.

For one, it is quite humiliating to tell people about my pieces. I usually memorize a piece quickly, but/ because it takes too long to bring anything up to speed. So I cannot move on at once though I might be sick of the piece I'm working on.

I shall put my pieces in my signature to prevent further questions of the same.  

He's almost 13, I think. See for yourself. Please don't flame the guy or tell him what I told you, etc. (I'm not supposed to advertise. It's just for the sake of our discussion.) https://www.youtube.com/user/blueyoyi

---

lostin,

You lost me there. It shouldn't demoralize you nor inspire you? Sometimes I neither get inspired or demoralized, and just enjoy the music, is that it? In that case, it is the music that inspires me, but it is usually beyond my technical level. When that sinks in, that's demoralization/ inspiration occurs. At least for me.

[danny elfboy]

He's almost 13, I think. See for yourself.

Since the channel is designed by the father he might as well lie about the real age at which his son started playing the piano. (which is something parents do, believe me) Also he clearly had strong predisposition (and I have already touched on how certain non-piano experiences form the basis for pianistic predisposition) and has been enrolled in an extra university course. This is nothing like 60 minutes lessons a week. This is usually hours of lessons a day plus hours of practicing. I won't be surprised if he gave up friends, parties, outdoor activities and even some of the homeworks to practice (nothing bad about it! it's just that it shows my point about the need of extra time to remove from other activities) Now stop worrying about this person you don't even know and focus on yourself and your music.

[db05]

Since the channel is designed by the father he might as well lie about the real age at which his son started playing the piano. (which is something parents do, believe me) Also he clearly had strong predisposition (and I have already touched on how certain non-piano experiences form the basis for pianistic predisposition) and has been enrolled in an extra university course. This is nothing like 60 minutes lessons a week. This is usually hours of lessons a day plus hours of practicing. I won't be surprised if he gave up friends, parties, outdoor activities and even some of the homeworks to practice (nothing bad about it! it's just that it shows my point about the need of extra time to remove from other activities) Now stop worrying about this person you don't even know and focus on yourself and your music.

Er, but we do know the father and the boy. This is true. I'm not worrying. Not right now. I was stressing a bit lately, sorry. 

Uni offers an extension course not much different from lessons outside, except perhaps the teachers are better, and it is cheap. I know that because I've considered it, but the university is a far commute from home. Am still considering it, after my 3-year integrated music course is done. Am happy.  I don't regret this decision at all.

[danny elfboy]

Er, but we do know the father and the boy. This is true. I'm not worrying. Not right now. I was stressing a bit lately, sorry. 

Uni offers an extension course not much different from lessons outside, except perhaps the teachers are better, and it is cheap. I know that because I've considered it, but the university is a far commute from home. Am still considering it, after my 3-year integrated music course is done. Am happy.  I don't regret this decision at all.

Well something must going on here.
It is not a matter of being a genius or whatever it is a matter of time.
Technique alone, to get from a beginner to a virtuoso would require three years at least, but building a repertoire requires lot of time. With one lesson a week and a couple of hours of practice a day you can't build a vast repertoire and to play virtuoso pieces you must have built step by step a serious repertory. So again this has nothing to do with how good the university teachers are because it's a matter of pure time available to do certain things. Would you think something is a bit ambigous if I told you that someone had wrote a whole book in a day? The things this guy are doing like recitals, concertos, winning competitions are typical of someone who devote an awful lot of time to the piano. So I will never buy the fairy tale that he practices and study like whatever other amateur and reaches virtuoso levels to the point of concertizing in just three years.
Consider how many lessons it requires to master whatever matter. Once can't expect miracles with 28 lessons a years. It's nothing. The strange things about this player is not that he is a piano genius but that he has found the way to enlarge time or must have invented a time machine.

[db05]

Well something must going on here.
It is not a matter of being a genius or whatever it is a matter of time.
...

danny, you got me there. I give up...

[danny elfboy]

danny, you got me there. I give up...

It takes time to build a repertory good enough that allow you to move to something more virtuoso. Lot of time. A person can get obsessed with a piece, spend 3 years practicing that piece and then he can play a virtuoso pieces. But if there's no rich repertory other than that he/she can't consider himsef or herself a real pianist. So it is absolutely clear that that guy hasn't reached that level doing 60 minutes of lesson a week and 90 minutes of daily praciticing. Forget it.

Don't allow yourself to be discouraged by this. Why don't you instead start to make friends with other piano students, maybe more advanced than you, so you can put all the aura of mistery and mythology of piano playing aside and have real average world experience to form a more all-rounded perspective.

Also remember that being a musician is hard, a friend of mine who recently got an intensive surgery because the chord of its contrabbass broke and hit his face keep saying that becoming a musician is like going to war. You can be whatever you want and you can be a great teacher but your perseverance, persistance and tenacity is influenced by your interion strength, that very same strength that should never allow you to be discouraged by some youtube player you don't even know. Fight against such discourage and againt such mental masturbation because that's part of your talent and value as a musician: the control of your mind.

[healdie]

there is no one who has found learning quick and easy when Liszt first started playing he couldn't even understand why he should use dynamics, and some people it takes longer than others yes you can look at Mozart and wish to be as good as him but look at the others as well i mean Brahms was in his 40's when his first symphony was completed also been a musician has no age limits you don't get too old Brukner was in his 60's before people realized how good he was as a composer

also no one picks it up without time and practice even the greatest geniuses Beethoven was about 14 when he started composing but he didn't produce anything worth performing untill he was about 20

i'll leave with a quote from the great Mozart "it is a mistake to think that the practice of my art has become easy to me, no one has given so much care to the study of composition as i have, there is scarcly a famous master in music whos works i have not frequently and diligently studied"

[meli]

Honestly, I would hate to be in such a position, being asked to play while another younger student is there suddenly plays something more 'advanced'!  I think the issue is relaxation and not playing ability. You seem to know where your weaknesses lie e.g. starting abruptly without a breath, wrist technique, tense upper body etc.. Why not slowly improve and work on those first with your teacher? I agree with healdie, about all those famous musicians and other people from all walks of life never found it ‘easy’ and maybe felt on the verge of giving up at times! I think the key to success is because they go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm. I guess what I am trying to say is don’t beat yourself up over this, I think this is all just part of the journey to be a better musician.

[concerto_love]

It's true, I'm on the same position with db.. No matter how hard I try, I'll never b very good

[db05]

You can be whatever you want and you can be a great teacher but your perseverance, persistance and tenacity is influenced by your interion strength, that very same strength that should never allow you to be discouraged by some youtube player you don't even know. Fight against such discourage and againt such mental masturbation because that's part of your talent and value as a musician: the control of your mind.

But I do know the boy, LOL!
On a serious note, you're right. I lack strength, physical and mental. 

[danny elfboy]

But I do know the boy, LOL!

You have been at the recitals
You know his family
But do you really know him?
Would you trust whatever word is said about him or he says about himself without any sort of doubt, even if such trust is a prerogative of real friendship?

On a serious note, you're right. I lack strength, physical and mental. 

You don't lack it. You're hurting it though while you should nurture it.

[db05]

On a serious note, you're right. I lack strength, physical and mental. 

But do you really know me? I wonder what made you say I don't lack strength when I feel like I do.

[concerto_love]

*I'm die*

[db05]

*I'm die*

Er, it would be grammatically correct if you said "I'm dying", "I'm dead", or simply *dies*.

*hugs* Let's die together...? Just kidding. Sorry if I made you feel bad.

[concerto_love]

saaad... so saaad....  I feel no progress after all....... 

[db05]

saaad... so saaad....  I feel no progress after all....... 

Me too. I might actually fail the piano exam this semester. I didn't know piano majors have to play an ENTIRE SONATINA FROM MEMORY! I didn't study it that much, wasn't planning to... I was so excited about the recitals, too... 

[danny elfboy]

But do you really know me? I wonder what made you say I don't lack strength when I feel like I do.

We all have strength and lot of it but sometimes it's hidden.
If I have lost something inside my house I don't lack it, I just have to find where it is.
Love, strength, courage, determination (in my opinion) can't be lacked, only in need to be found inside ourselves because they're already there.

[db05]

We all have strength and lot of it but sometimes it's hidden.
If I have lost something inside my house I don't lack it, I just have to find where it is.
Love, strength, courage, determination (in my opinion) can't be lacked, only in need to be found inside ourselves because they're already there.

I lost something when I was younger. I don't know whether it's strength, determination, intelligence, or the soul itself. Something I had before is lost, I don't know where it is. I actually stumbled on music because it was suggested to me as a form of therapy. But I've learned to love music, so I can't take it in stride like a mere hobby.

[alpacinator1]

My god, quit your complaining.

Chopin etudes are NOT easy by any means, and being to play them at all is something to be proud of. (I sure wish I could...)

Honestly, I think what you were playing was probably mroe difficult than this "Grieg Concerto"...