Return to "serious" piano after a year

[ren_dolce]

So last year, I stopped taking lessons in order to focus on my schoolwork (it was my Junior year). Since then, I have still been playing piano weekly, if not daily, but on easier pieces. I have memorized six of Yann Tiersen's pieces since they have distinct patterns which are easy to learn. Recently, I've been re-inspired by friends to return to playing classical music.

 However, since I haven't been doing scales/arpeggios/etc for the past year, I'm not sure I'm technically ready to play again. These past few weeks, I have been catching up on Hanon and Czerny. Just before I had stopped my lessons, I was getting ready for the level 9 test, so my level is pretty average.

So, my question to you all is, should I play classical again? And if so, what should I start with? My friend bought me Chopin's Etudes a few days ago, but I'm pretty sure they're too advanced for me.

Any advice is very appreciated.

[pianistimo]

Are you planning to take lessons again?  This forum can't give a 'one size fits all' assessment or even a five year plan to someone without knowing what parts of their technique are lacking. 

For myself, to ease into more practice consistently - i'd do many things.  Some on this forum may disagree - but this is my particular style.  Sign up for choir accompanying (that will get you sightreading a lot) and you will get free advice from the conductor vicariously by hearing the advices to vocal students - which believe it or not - many times transfer to piano by way of interpretation of the symbols of the music and the 'history' behind composers and pieces.  also, you get a better sense of rhythm and you sense that music isn't always one voice or one person - it can be a multitude of voices and instruments.

Start going to more student concerts/recitals.  Start a diary and make notes of the pieces that you really like and the advices or program notes (or just save them) pertaining to those pieces.  Listen to a lot of music.  Make music fun for yourself and it will motivate you to start doing more.

Teach music.  Often, the push to prepare a lesson for someone else - motivates an older student to start analyzing HOW one learns and takes in information.  Then, you vicariously apply it to yourself.  Take a theory class again - or take something that forces you to look at the notes in a clearer way.  Sometimes all students see is a bunch of notes on a page.

Don't just pick pieces from the 'sky' - but get an assessment from a good teacher and see if you can't afford (after teaching) to take more lessons and keep up your skills.  There are many methods to teacher's madness.  You could, if you wanted - read up on them or take a methods class, too.  I've wanted to do this for ages.  It would force you to do a comparison of methods. 

Most people don't analyze college methods.  They mostly analyze the younger grades - and method books already in place.  But, as you get into college coursework - you don't necessarily have a textbook for piano lessons.  You are entirely reliant to take your prescribed lesson pieces and learn them according to how the teacher is presenting them (and your own research).  To remember what you learn - it was suggested to me to also keep a diary or notebook of the lessons themselves and research into things you don't quite understand and bring back lots of questions.  You get more out of lessons when you ask questions.  After all, piano is one of the flexible skills that one can bend and shape to merge with the 'personality' and 'hand and nerve mechanism' of the student - and work it to an advantage no matter the situation.

also, flexibility of the hand can be improved by learning relaxation techniques.  you can experiment to see what position your hands are in to gain the most flexibility and fast nerve action.  surprisingly, for many students - this is simply not curving the fingers as much as first year teachers tell you to.  you know how it feels to play a B major scale?  well, that's how easy piano playing should be in general.  just easy feeling.  not stressful.  my faux pas was learning how to relax with all the large jumps and spans (with my smaller hands) in chopin.  i learned an amazing trick - and that was to keep the hand relaxed.  not try to stretch to the next note and rather 'zip' there.  it opened up a whole new door to playing and made me feel less 'disabled.'

 

[ren_dolce]

Are you planning to take lessons again?  This forum can't give a 'one size fits all' assessment or even a five year plan to someone without knowing what parts of their technique are lacking. 

That's the problem. I can't afford to take lessons right now because our family is going through some financial trouble (I'm lucky we didn't sell my piano) so it's hard for me to get a thorough assessment. That's why I decided to post here about this.

For myself, to ease into more practice consistently - i'd do many things.

Right now, I practice an hour or two a day, but that will decrease when school starts. On the weekend, I can get maybe 3-4 hours. And it's not about motivation right now- I love music and the piano, so I definitely want to continue. The problem is if I want to pursue classical.

I'm more curious about what pieces will be beneficial to me. Should I even consider Chopin's etudes, since I feel bad letting it gather dust in a corner? Or should I finish Czerny first? I can't seem to find a good level. Everything is either way too hard or boring because they're too easy.

[pianistimo]

First of all, do you mean Junior in High School?  High school is a great place to get accompanying jobs -and it will greatly increase your sight-reading ability.  Also, some positions allow you to get paid later on (community college choirs) since you will have had some experience in HS.  Also, if you even teach one or two lessons - that will pay for your own.  Take them on the weekend if you have more time then - but definately, if you are serious - take lessons. 

Don't try to fool yourself that you don't need 'total immersion.'  Total immersion means getting back into the music scene even if you are busy with other homework, too.  Listening to a concert once or twice a month is good relaxation for your mind anyways.

Also, when you take lessons - you have a distinct advantage of also performing at Master Class - which allows you to hear other students.  This develops critical thinking -especially if the teacher asks what you think of the students interpretation and playing.  So many times students just listen and wait - but music is very proactive.  You consciously make choices about what to do - based on information that you have.  A good teacher consistently gives you more and more information to build upon (and doesn't skip steps).

If you just rely on picking pieces and think that will help -it's rather like going to a buffet and feeling stuffed - but, not a real dining experience.  You can make music like this every practice session - but, it's learning to be more focused and knowing what to look for and how to go about doing it.  It's not something you can learn in a bubble very well.  I used to think it was all about practicing.  It's not.  It's about listening and comparing notes and sharing.  Music is a very shared experience, to me - and also performing.  Why learn piano if you don't want to perform it for others.  That's why i think it's really great to have a teacher - because you jump right into the deep end of the pool.

[pianistimo]

ok - if i were to develop a 'method' specifically for you - i'd start asking you for information.  for instance, what are some composers that you are attracted to - both listening to their music and ease of playing (some composers had large hands).  the hand size issue might not even enter the picture here - but generally i like to know about the students hand.

do you have large, medium, or small hands?

also, if you have previously had a teacher who attempted to keep all the various parts of piano studies at a consistent level.  ie theory, sight-reading, harmonization, repertoire, and technique (not in that order necessarily)

many times students can be very strong in one area and very weak in another.  you want a teacher that is either a member of MTAC (or if you are in another country -in a music teacher's association) that will provide consistent help in all the areas at the same time. 

[pianistimo]

Each of the pieces your teacher chooses (from three or four that are learned simultaneously) can provide little exercises in many things.  You may decide to work one czerny piece along with it all - or whatever techniques you are studying.  czerny works well with beethoven - but isn't a one-size fits all for technique.

In our day, the 'might' side of piano playing is greatly alleviated.   Pianists aren't concerned about strong piano hands or playing powerfully, but playing with conservation, ease, and less hand motions.  The way birds fly.  Effortlessly.  This requires not just practicing something over and over and over like a monkey - but to also play with the brains.  To challenge yourself to quickly move from one thing to another.

Typically, this might be in difficult transition passages in a piece or working out dynamic/and touch variations.  You can make little exercises out of transitions.  you can analyze your piece harmonically (writing in the chord symbols).  You can create theory problems out of a piece.  You can study the composer (read a book about them).  All these things add up to more distinct focus not just on the repetition - but on the overall picture.  Like a landscape where you don't want to miss anything.

here's an interesting article where top teachers disagree on methods of technique:
https://www.music.sc.edu/ea/keyboard/PPF/2.3/2.3.PPFp.html

[pianistimo]

If i may add one more thing - and I say this sheepishly - I enjoy the finger motions of bach - but it gets too tedious sometimes.  Which of your friends is going to ask you 'play more bach, play more bach.'  I'm of the opinion - unless someone wants to nod off to sleep - you don't ALWAYS have to start out with the french suites or english suites.  Try something dogmatic - like the d minor toccata and fugue.  Rouse them from slumber.

OK.  now, that the baroque era is out of the way - let's try something classical, too - how about something that isn't as well known as mozart, beethoven, haydn, schubert or dratted clementi.  i'm just thinking right now - we'll find you something.  Something to make people stand up and notice.  You know - walk by your practice door - and say 'who is that?  what piece is that?  Don't you like making people wonder.

as was suggested to me - the classical era didn't just 'bang' - start.  CPE bach was gradually making distinction with his keyboard sonatas in a new style.  this would be called 'late baroque'  (until 1740).  mid-century (1740-70).  and then - classic (1770-1800).  CPE's prussian sonatas would be very interesting to study and compare with what we term 'classical' because they are certainly not following the exact same principles as mozart/beethoven/schubert/.  they are not yet 'there.'  thus making a case that 'classical' is also 'late baroque.'  that will stuff a teacher.

then, maybe i WOULD go for some haydn - just for making a case that the classical era was still in transition.  didn't he compose in the earlier mid-century?  CPE started the idea that the sonata had three movements - fast-slow-fast.  two themes were presented, elaborated, and restated in the first movement (from john gillespie's 'five centuries of keyboard music').  the second sonata type, although usually limited to three movements, gave the minuet equal stature with the other movements and generally preserved the same tonality throughout.  Some of haydn's early sonatas may be considered 'divertimenti' since they follow the composer of the time 'wagenseil's' prototypes from his divertimenti.

haydn was unusual, because (unlike mozart) he composed nine sonatas with just two-movements and two with four-movements.  haydn's first movement is sometimes a theme and variations instead of sonata-allegro, and frequently the final movement is cast in minuet form.

i'd move from haydn to beethoven later - but definately study some haydn just for the sake of it.  many of haydn's themes, according to gillespie, are built in irregular periods of three, five, or seven measures and he shows a tendency to suppress the importance of the second subject or theme.  haydn often wants to present his first theme in a fresh guise.  this way he reserves any new material for a less obvious occasion. 

in haydn's sonata no. 30 in A major (36) - he tried to link all three movements together.  that would be an interesting study?!

[pianistimo]

bach toccata and fugue in d minor , bwv 565
cpe bach -  a prussian sonata or wurttenberg (sp?) sonata
haydn sonata #30 in A major
beethoven waldstein (a really good exercise, too)
chopin etude ?
schumann abegg variations
saint-saens allegro appasionata

*question?  do you think beethoven got his idea of connecting movements from haydn?

[pianistimo]

i started thinking about the many 'methods' today - and how it might be that some teachers start more from the sight-reading aspect.  the faster you are able to sightread - the more pieces you can collect for further study.  like a collection of butterflies.  if you can't sightread - you can't decide quickly what you want to play next - and analyze it quickly according to it's level of difficulty.

sightreading duets and learning to play duets is another way to become familiar with a lot of music - but in an easier to read format (or sometimes harder!).  also, it sounds full and pleasant.  it makes you be precise in rhythm.  it makes you listen to the dynamics required.  basically, if one is sightreading with a teacher - you start making the first reading an attempted lesson in not quitting and attempting to keep up a steady rhythm and look ahead for the next 'items.' 

you can have several piles of music at home.  the music that you are seriously studying at the moment - and the music you want to learn - or just enjoy playing. play all of it when you have time.  attempt to memorize the music you are studying - and just sightread (unless you already have the other music memorized) the rest.

[general disarray]

i started thinking about the many 'methods' today - and how it might be that some teachers start more from the sight-reading aspect.  the faster you are able to sightread - the more pieces you can collect for further study.  like a collection of butterflies.  if you can't sightread - you can't decide quickly what you want to play next - and analyze it quickly according to it's level of difficulty.

sightreading duets and learning to play duets is another way to become familiar with a lot of music - but in an easier to read format (or sometimes harder!).  also, it sounds full and pleasant.  it makes you be precise in rhythm.  it makes you listen to the dynamics required.  basically, if one is sightreading with a teacher - you start making the first reading an attempted lesson in not quitting and attempting to keep up a steady rhythm and look ahead for the next 'items.' 

you can have several piles of music at home.  the music that you are seriously studying at the moment - and the music you want to learn - or just enjoy playing. play all of it when you have time.  attempt to memorize the music you are studying - and just sightread (unless you already have the other music memorized) the rest.

I think this is wonderful advice.  Thanks, p!

I started very early with piano (age 4) and burned out by age 8.  My parents were great about it.  They gave me piles of music and said, "play what you want and take a lesson when you want."  I had two great-aunts who were concert artists and they'd have me over to read duets with them.  We just read everything. (They sneaked in technical advice, too.)

When I hit those gnarly teen years, I wanted to get serious again.  By that time, I had read through almost everything, including the concerto repertoire and most of the major sonatas.  Of course, it was all crude playing, but I had gotten a grasp of the literature early and was ready to REALLY get down to business and work.

[pianistimo]

yes.  i think there is something to starting music young.  i started at 8 years old and  sightreading probably comes easier then.  a little bit harder later.  but, not impossible.  music is a language - so as much effort as you put into it - when you become 'fluent' you can pretty much skip around and see what there is to play.  and, do as you did - and have fun with music.  not making it tedious and pedantic always.

also, if you start accompanying choirs at an early age - you get over with the 'nerves' factor (since you don't want to ruin it for the entire group), you practice more - (people are relying on you), and you generally push yourself to learn a lot of new material all the time. 

when you take lessons you should automatically do this, too - but many times at the younger teen age ages - unless there is distinct push and focus - the focus becomes 'hmm. what do i want to play today.'  that's not bad - it's just that nothing really finishes itself.

if you put yourself into a position that you can't get out of (recital deadlines) - then you HAVE to practice, you have to know the music, you have to follow the conductor, you have to feel the beat, you have to relax (to alleviate nerves).  the more you are on stage - the more you help yourself later when you perform alone.  it's like the stage was meant for you.  that it is your friend instead of your mortal enemy.  that the audience is waiting for you to tell a story - or move them emotionally (or not) - or help them see something they never saw in quite that way.

[ren_dolce]

Sorry for not replying for the past few days.

First of all, do you mean Junior in High School?

Yes, I am in High School. That's an issue, because my parents keep telling me to wait until college to pursue piano, but I don't want to waste my senior year just doing nothing.

ok - if i were to develop a 'method' specifically for you - i'd start asking you for information.  for instance, what are some composers that you are attracted to - both listening to their music and ease of playing (some composers had large hands).  the hand size issue might not even enter the picture here - but generally i like to know about the students hand.

do you have large, medium, or small hands?

I have really small hands, which prove to be an issue constantly... I've adapted several songs to fit my needs, but it makes sight-reading more tedious for me because I can't use their fingering sometimes. It becomes discouraging, so I'm constantly worried about what to play.

bach toccata and fugue in d minor , bwv 565
cpe bach - a prussian sonata or wurttenberg (sp?) sonata
haydn sonata #30 in A major
beethoven waldstein (a really good exercise, too)
chopin etude ?
schumann abegg variations
saint-saens allegro appasionata

In that order?

[pianistimo]

ren_dolce - i think that one should gradually work up to the level of endurance that they want to have by starting small and gradually increasing work load DAILY.  so...if you are used to working czerny and a chopin etude - don't quit either one.  just add something new.  maybe one thing.  work on those things for a month - and then, add something new - and work on all four that month.  the next month - add something new - and keep rotating until you have to split the work between two days. half your program on one day and half on another.  it's like being a chef.  you want everything completed about the same time.  so...if one piece is lagging wayy behind the other - you work more on it.  perhaps several days and then get back to the other pieces.

skipping days is very hard on my personal memory - so as a recital nears - i like to not skip any pieces each day.  to go through the entire program in the order that it is decided to be in.  this order that i gave has pieces according to their date in history.  perhaps this is becoming passe?  also, many of these pieces are supposedly 'classical.'  we haven't touched the romantic and modern as much.  you have time right now to just listen to a lot of music and see what you like.  if you love a piece - it's easier to practice it.

i have smaller hands, too - so it's not like you don't have company.  i once read that a lady with small hands got hold of a piano manufacturer that made keyboard (and keys) smaller for people like her.  she played some chopin on it and was amazed at the difference in ease to play the pieces.  i have always been VERY curious about that.  playing rachmaninov to me is like putting on a gigantic pair of shoes and trying to walk around in them.

try some cecile chaminade just for fun.  or schumann or mac dowell.  the idea of miniatures was once a 'poetic ideal' for the tea-drinking woman.  but, it only goes so far - then you go back to something with paganini in the title or the beethoven waldstein.  but, brahms paganini variations are actually very fun and very challenging.  i'd try those too, if you are curious about the extent you can relax while playing very difficult music.  it teaches you a lot in two months about relaxation.  you cannot play thirds without being really relaxed. 

ok. saint-saens is a sort of 'small-hand music' too, if you want to call it that.  things just fit into you hands.  it's not like you are attempting to jump a cavern and have to pray first.  (sorry to bring prayer into this - but i never pray over easy pieces).  the saint-saens toccata is really fun and also challenging in it's own ways (fingering) - but once the fingering is figured out - it's wayy easier for someone with smaller hands than some chopin/rachmaninov and other composers with either long long fingers or huge whopping hands.

[ren_dolce]

Thank you for the advice. I swear, someday I'm going to break my bank account buying just buying music books.

I'm working on Chopin's etude op10 no1 right now and it's not too bad. Some of the arpeggios are definitely a stretch, but it's coming along.

I've never heard of Chaminade, but I'll look her up. Thanks for the help.

[pianistimo]

that opus 10 #1 is more difficult than it looks.  congrats for picking an etude.  i don't think i worked those until much later.  i worked a lot of bach and beethoven at the beginning.  the bach is sort of traditional approach - although one pianist told his teachers at college he only wanted to play chopin.  nothing else.  jean-yves thibaudet?  they aquiesed.

now, he plays anything and everything - but chopin did help his technique and he plays it wonderfully.

typically, music schools don't let you do this.  you typically have to prepare the 'usual platter.'  a little from each era of music.  knowing historically about each era - gets you prepared to present yourself.  whichever you are most interested in - learn about, so they know that you have done some work to get ready for it all.  some prestigious schools require a few concertos in there, too?!  whew.  i didn't learn a concerto until 1st year of college.    

ok.  you'll have to start setting your practice times and sticking with it.