John Thompson's Easiest Piano Course Part 2 lost me, help!

[opop]

I'm at the part where I'm learning flats, and sharps. I understand that a sharp is the closest key to the right and a flat is the closet key to the left. But why is that C note I have circled played with my second finger? That toally threw me off becuase I thought the C note is played with only the thumbs for beginners. Please help me out.



Thank you

[faulty_damper]

The 2 is given on C because the 5 is given on G.  This would retain the "5-finger" position.


But I completely disagree with ALL the given fingering.

Since this is just a basic keyboard course book, you should know immediately that any fingering, no matter how basic or advanced the piece, is there to ease the learning process.  I don't agree with this , however.  It is my opinion that fingering should never be given because it restricts curiosity and prevents development of a very fundamental skill of figuring it out on your own.  It becomes a crutch and it becomes a paint-by-numbers skill only it's finger-by-numbers.

I've attached my own fingering for this piece.  If you have questions to why I chose to finger it the way I did, just ask and I'll be more than happy to answer.

[alpacinator1]

The 2 is given on C because the 5 is given on G.  This would retain the "5-finger" position.


But I completely disagree with ALL the given fingering.

Since this is just a basic keyboard course book, you should know immediately that any fingering, no matter how basic or advanced the piece, is there to ease the learning process.  I don't agree with this , however.  It is my opinion that fingering should never be given because it restricts curiosity and prevents development of a very fundamental skill of figuring it out on your own.  It becomes a crutch and it becomes a paint-by-numbers skill only it's finger-by-numbers.

I've attached my own fingering for this piece.  If you have questions to why I chose to finger it the way I did, just ask and I'll be more than happy to answer.

Very funny.

[db05]

Faulty, what's so special about 3?

But faulty is right, forget about the numbers and figure out the fingering for yourself. Also, don't restrict yourself to 5-finger position all the time.

Edit: I used that book (apparently an old edition with no color) last year, I think by 2 it means left hand not right. There are many pieces that require hands to cross a bit. See also Ten Little Indians. 

If you're going to use Thompson anyway, I recommend you go straight to the Grade one book- the pieces there sound better imo, and get Scale/ Chord speller or any theory book as reference. I think that my theory background helped me most.

PS. Are you teaching yourself? What's your purpose for studying piano, and how is your progress?

[opop]

Thank you for the responses, yet I'm still confused as to why C is a 2 just because G is the given 5. Is this what's called playing a minor or something? in this case do I move my starting hand position over to the left one key? yet that leaves only my pinky (5) to play F# & G

I'm guess I'm a little untrained when it comes to reading exact notes, I can play much easier and faster if I can read just by finger. What exactly is this book training me for with all this strict fingering though? Ten Little Indians is on the next page and it confuses me as well, some one the notes might as well make the whole song on just treble or bass, a lot of cross fingering, they MUST be prepping me for something but it's getting overwhelmingly confusing at the moment, where I want to pay for lessons or just give up.

Yes I've been teaching myself, my sister had some old piano books hidden away under the chair and I found the John Thompson Book the most easy to follow so I ordered Parts 1-3 on Ebay.

I'm playing on a very nice Kawai upright piano at the moment, it needs a little tuning though, I heard this can get so expensive you possibly might as well throw out the piano??!?! is this true?

What really interests me is synthesizers though, I want to move up to something that could replicate new wave sounds, which is primarily the music I listen to, so it should be the most fun for me to play. I heard the Yamaha DX-7 is one of the best for this criteria.

[db05]

Thank you for the responses, yet I'm still confused as to why C is a 2 just because G is the given 5. Is this what's called playing a minor or something? in this case do I move my starting hard position over to the left one key? yet that leaves only my pinky (5) to play F# & G
...
I'm playing on a very nice Kawai upright piano at the moment, it needs a little tuning though, I heard this can get so expensive you possibly might as well throw out the piano??!?! is this true?

What really interests me is synthesizers though, I want to move up to something that could replicate new wave sounds, which is primarily the music I listen to, so it should be the most fun for me to play. I heard the Yamaha DX-7 is one of the best for this criteria.

Yes, in the left hand it's G-D so, G is 5, C is 2. Right hand is normal, C-G = 1-5. So the hands are crossed a bit. No, it's not minor. Just training for different hand positions.

Yeah, uprights are expensive. Don't know about synths, they're pretty expensive if you add the amplifier. My classmates prefer Korg or Roland, though I don't remember what model.

In any case, you will have to read the notes sometime, and figure out fingerings for yourself. For pop music, it's important to learn some basic chords. I believe your book has C, G and F, which is enough to build a simple song.

[syncope]

yet that leaves only my pinky (5) to play F# & G

The F# is to be played with the 4 then (and G with pinky)

[faulty_damper]

Thank you for the responses, yet I'm still confused as to why C is a 2 just because G is the given 5.

The music indicates that the left hand will play G with 5.  According to "five-finger theory" that means 2 will play C and thus 1 will play D.

Is this what's called playing a minor or something? in this case do I move my starting hard position over to the left one key? yet that leaves only my pinky (5) to play F# & G

No, see above.

Also, when fingering is given above a note it means it should be played by the RH.  When fingering is given below it means it should be played by the LH.

I'm playing on a very nice Kawai upright piano at the moment, it needs a little tuning though, I heard this can get so expensive you possibly might as well throw out the piano??!?! is this true?

No, it is not true.  Tuning is relatively inexpensive compared to action regulation or hammer voicing.

[faulty_damper]

Very funny.

What was it funny?  I was not making a joke and I don't think I am funnier than a donut.

[faulty_damper]

Faulty, what's so special about 3?

Nothing is special about 3.  3 just so happens to be the best fingering to play this piece of music.  Also note that not every note was indicated as 3.  Ask a skilled pianist-musician and you'll likely get the same answer about the fingering for this piece.  (Note that I mentioned pianist-musician, not skilled pianist.)

But faulty is right, forget about the numbers and figure out the fingering for yourself. Also, don't restrict yourself to 5-finger position all the time.

Of course I'm right, about the fingering I mean.

However, at this stage of the learning process, and considering that he particularly used this method book, figuring out fingering would be futile - the mind has already been corrupted to think in terms of fingers and not music quality.

I fingered every note of the "bells" piece because I wanted to be explicitly clear as to which fingers to use because it most easily gets the best music quality with the least amount of practice.

If you want to know very clearly the reason why 3, just ask and I will be more than happy to answer.

[db05]

I fingered every note of the "bells" piece because I wanted to be explicitly clear as to which fingers to use because it most easily gets the best music quality with the least amount of practice.

If you want to know very clearly the reason why 3, just ask and I will be more than happy to answer.

Yes, please do explain. I am baffled. I would finger it mostly 1, almost staccato but with pedal. But that's me and my weirdness. I love thumbs. 

[opop]

okay so I see, the clue here is that C is being played with 2 so therefore G will be played with 5? I have to look for little things like that, if C was played with 1 then I'd know F is to be played with 5.

As long as I have some sort of number then I'd be okay, but as I go on I won't see those numbers there at all? So I'll just have the sound / myself to guide me?

[faulty_damper]

okay so I see, the clue here is that C is being played with 2 so therefore G will be played with 5? I have to look for little things like that, if C was played with 1 then I'd know F is to be played with 5.

The music already indicates the left hand will play the G with 5 - it's the first note that you play.

Here's "five-finger" theory:
LH     RH
1 D    5 G
2 C    4 F#
3 B    3 E
4 A    2 D
5 G    1 C

As long as I have some sort of number then I'd be okay, but as I go on I won't see those numbers there at all? So I'll just have the sound / myself to guide me?

The skill that you should be learning right now is how to play the piano.  However, the way this piano "course" "organizes" concepts is, ironically, not how to play the piano.  It is reading - both music theory and reading aides (finger numbers).

Right now, you should be learning the ability to figure out which finger depresses which key without reading aides (fingerings).  It will save you immense amounts of time, effort, and mental strain later.

I have already fingered the piece if you care to use them.

[faulty_damper]

Yes, please do explain. I am baffled. I would finger it mostly 1, almost staccato but with pedal. But that's me and my weirdness. I love thumbs. 

The music is an imitation of bells.  To attain this quality, the dynamic range must be loud.  To recreate this dynamic on the piano, enough speed of the hammers must be achieved.  To easily achieve this speed, the hand must be lifted high enough to allow gravity to attract the arm down onto the keys.  The transfer of kinetic energy will cause the key to depress causing the hammer to rise and strike the strings.

Why the 3rd finger?  The 3rd finger is the longest.  It does not require any of the other fingers to be extended as it depresses the keys.  It also has a larger surface area upon contact.  It is also most inline with the forearm which means it most efficiently transfers energy.  And from a musical aspect, the motion most closely imitates the movement of the clapper as it strikes the bell.

The dampers should be lifted off the strings for the bell-like sound to be imitated.  It should be lifted off before the first note is struck and can be held down for the entire duration of the piece.