Is it waste of time to teach kids are very young?

[dora96]

My son is 3 and half years old. I would love him to learn the piano. But the problem he won't sit still long enough and he won't open his hands. He will sit at the piano for 3 minutes and then get off and bang at the piano and climb on the keyboard.  At the moment, he doesn't do a lot, he loves watching T.V which is worrying me.

I take him out play group, park and bush walking, but when we come home, I am already exhausting plus not mention the daily homework and the thing makes him come down is to watch T.V. I am just wondering any teacher here has taught very young children and what is the best way to start off. My son has so much time, he hasn't yet started school, it would be nice to learn music now and distract me from watching TV.

[tsagari]

Hi Dora,
I will try to answer to your question not as a teacher but as mother of two children, with similar concernes about the right age to start teaching young Kinds.
In your situation I would try the Orff system. That is try to find a group for your child that will help him to be familaried with music in gereral. I would also suggest a singing group, my daughter who joined a chirdrens chorus - at age of five - before official piano lesson she benefit extremely from this experence. She can now go to the piano on her own and play the melodies with her wright hand or both hands together, because through orff and chorus she naturaly understood how music works. Even at this stage - she six now - I am not to sure if official piano lesson is appropriate for her. Her approach to music is natural and I am affraid that official lesson will put an end to this.

[hyrst]

I teach children individually from 3 years of age.  I have had some very young and talented students who have handled lessons well at this age, based around the piano for 60% of the lesson.  From 4, the most keen ones have been wanting to stay at the piano all the time - for half an hour, then thye start to say they are tired.  My most advnaced student at present began at this age and is now playing 8th grade at just under 7 years old.

However, most little ones are quite unable to cope with an actual piano lesson.  Since you are a pianist yourself, you can play with the piano together with him just as you would read a book together.  A little at a time gives structure  and skill to the natural play tendencies - but you have to be careful not to disturb these natural fun things until the child actually wants to do more.  A child will try to read what the parents have said about a book, but it takes a while before they can retell the story senisbly.  The same patience needs to be extended to playing the piano.  Everyth8ing you do has to eb in the form of a game.

A lot can be gained for young children who are exposed to music generally.  In this way, and with your description of your son, I would agree with Tsagari's recommendations.  Join with other children, learn rhythm and pitch, feel and hear music patterns, explore a range of simple instrumetns and sounds, etc.  You can then take home from the classes things to do.

[Bob]

Yes, just get him excited and happy about music.  And maybe keeping some kind of beat. 

[dora96]

My son has been to kid music club, play group, and music gym. They play music games, dance, sing, and rhythm clapping etc... However, my son is just doing it for few minutes and walking away from the class or play. The teacher seems that they don't really want to force him if he doesn't want to join other children. I feel frustrated that I am paying the term fee, but if he doesn't want to do it. The teacher will ask and encourage him the best they can. There are 10 children they have to worry about them, can't put all attention into my son.

I feel that he shouldn't continue the lesson, because he seems lack interest. I don't know what should I do to encourage him. He just does it because I drag him along with these sort classes. Sometimes, he doesn't want to go, he said he wants to watch TV. I feel sad for him because my desire wants him to learn the piano, but not his interest. He goes along with it because I make him.

Many people said to me don't force a kid to do something. He will resent it. On the other hand, I am his mother I know what is the best for my son. Just thinking back, when I was a child, my parents made me to learn the piano. I hate practicing the piano everyday. I didn't particular enjoy learning the piano in order to please my parents I just put up with it. After I passed my piano exam each year, and I played the piano at school. The teachers and school friends were envious me because I can play the piano and they couldn't play. I started loving the piano and I am proud of playing the piano. I am appreciate my parents and I know now they did the right thing for me and trying to give me the best they can. 

[hyrst]

You could work out some favourite little songs on the piano, or make some up with your son - just melody line to start - and play them together.  It sounds like you are worn out and a little at a loss for how to manage generally.  Music might just be another thing to cope with.  I do have some more specific teaching ideas, if you want them, but it is a daily effort.  Maybe you need to give yourself a break instead.  It's often not easy being the mother of a 3 year old.

[faulty_damper]

Here's an alternative perspective on what Westerners call "music" and why your strategy for teaching your child piano may be misguided.

What Westerners call "music" is exclusive to any other activity, id est, music is music for the sake of music.  It has no connection to any other artistic activity like dance.  It's "art music".

However, the natural impulse when humans hear music is to move to it; they don't sit still like statues in a classical recital.  Even babies, when they hear such music, want to move to it.  They have this impulse even at a couple months old, even though they don't have the ability to move - the caretaker must provide the rocking motion to the beat.

When that rocking motion is correctly given with the beat of the music, their faces will light up with delight - they enjoy it!  Rock them off the beat and you'll soon see confusion on their faces.

This impulse to move is the precursor to what is called dance - movement to an external stimuli.  But I'm digressing.

Music should not be given as an end to itself.  We have natural impulses to this stimuli and that stimuli should be exploited because it creates connections beyond the aural. 

As ironic as this sounds, playing piano has nothing to do with music.  The piano is just an instrument with potential to create music if the performer has the necessary skill to do so.  But playing piano is a purely physical act.

If you really want your son to play the piano, the first step you should take is to make sure he is aware of music.  This shouldn't be difficult because everyone is aware of music.  You have to frame it in a manner that connects his musical awareness and the piano as a means of creating it.  This would be the difficult part because you already started off with the wrong assumptions and would probably require a new perspective.

[dora96]

Faulty Damper,

I know you are talking about. There is no problem to introduce music to my children. They like music generally, even though, my 15 months old baby, when he listens Mozart concerto, Tchaikovsky piano concerto, even opera singing, he will move and try to hum the music, try to intimate the sound. For my 3 years old son, he has learned something each week, but when I ask him to play something, sing, dance. He just won't do it. I concern that how do kids learn something, they won't put into practice.

We just have meeting in school band. Most conductors and music teachers always whine about the practice. Most kids learn a piece of music, they don't practice serious enough in order to get everything right or part of it right. Come to rehearsal, it is absolutely struggle for other players and the conductor. Each kid stumbles with each other.

We stress that the fact at the beginning of the band. Regular instrument lesson, regular instrument practice, theory study. However, majority of kids just practice before the rehearsal, how can they get thing right. The schedules keep on moving, new piece will be given each week or fortnightly. They can't cope with the basic, how can they cope with the long term. I know we have to make it fun and interesting and more enthusiasm about even the negative thing. We can't fix thing that if the kids won't acknowledge, or even parents. We ask parents help and encourage them to practice. Some parents still have attitude that don't force them if they don't feel doing right now.

Back to my son, I know he is only young, don't even have logical in this age. I am trying to find the way to establish the habit. Surely kids have to learn. They get up in the morning, get change and bush their teeth. Go to toilet by themselves. Pack away all the belong, after playing the toys. I am trying to establish the routine and practice habit. It is really hard because as a mother, I don't have all day to train him. I am taking very small step. I just hope sometimes it will get easier when he get older and more understanding. For him keep fiddling around, when I try to talk to him about the music, play the keyboard, he just won't give me 5 minutes. I find that frustrate. I am posting this thread, I just hope that someone will post me successful story how their kids find passion into the music.

There is a post 6 year old girl can play Chopin Nocturne C sharps minor which is successful story and music passion and understanding will happen in some kids. Some will develop earlier and some will develop late. I do understand that.  However, whatever happen to my son, I feel that he has so much time to watch TV. He can take that advantage to learn music now.       

[faulty_damper]

Considering that he does indeed express an interest in music, why push him to play the piano more than 5 seconds?  It seems that 5 seconds is indeed enough time for him to "practice".  (He is 3 years old.)  Just make those 5 seconds as productive as possible.  You have every day with him, as opposed to once a week.

Every day, 5 seconds, exact same routine.  Would this be too difficult to fit your schedule?

And I have one very curious question: why piano?  Why not any other instrument?  I am not expecting the answer: "because I want him to play piano.  It will make him smarter, more intelligent, and more successful in life."

[hyrst]

My student is the one who is playing the Chopin Nocturne, and now is playing a Chopin Waltz and several other pieces at this level although she is not yet 7.  I am writing here to let you know about how it is from my experience - each child is individual and you can only do with a young child what they are wililng to, be that for 5 seconds or long minutes.

As well as  this young girl, who started lessons when she was 4, I have several other young students at present.  They are all different and I will describe them a little.

One girl is 4.  She has played for 6 months and is on her second level lesson book.  She reads all notes on the piano, plays hands together with some expression and has memorised everythign in her book.  She loves to play and plays on her own for about 1 1/2 hours a day, just as a way of having fun.  I have managed to teach her enough for her to learn this level - but she only listens when she wants to know how to do the next thing, not because I said she needs to change something or because I said so.

One girl has just turned 5  and has been playing 6 months.  She struggled, but followed every instruction I gave her.  Recently, she has finally understood the concept of remembering the music and being able to play fluently. She is now doing well, but before that it was technical exercise, and her movements were good but without use.  Now she understands things, she is learning very fast.

I have another girl just turned 5.  I started teaching her when she was 2.  At 2, she could identify middle c, name the keys and fingers, follow notes by step up and down and follow rhythm patterns in simple time.  Between 3  1/2 and 4 1/2 she enjoyed seeing me, but wouldn't listen to anything.  She forgot most of what she knew.  I worked with her by making games from everything she wanted to do so I could include music concepts.  I changed her lessons to occassional, for maintenance becasue her mother wanted her to have a stable connection outside the family.  Although she has a good sense of pitch and rhythm and a general, keen interest in music, she is behind the learning of my other 5 year olds.  The extra 3 years hasn't necessarily made a positive difference to her learning.

I have a 3 year old who can read music, loves to sing, clap, move and can play and read small pieces in C position.  She resists doing anything she thinks will be hard, so I have to invent lots of activities that provide a foundation for the different areas of piano - hand movements, reading concepts, rhythm patterns, pitch direction and aural skills, improvisation, singing, sound pictures, etc.  She is gaining a good music foundation, but it is a lot of hard work for all concerned.   

The reality is that very few children are fast learners, prodigious, like my 6 year old.  For most children, there is little advantage to starting lessons early.  However, they are able to learn and they can enhance the natural musical skills.  You always need to work within what the child is willing to do - and that might not be a long time at the pinao, it might be reading and climbing steps, making up ostinato rhythms, moving faster or slower to music (especially the metronome), using different hand movements on the piano (they can be lots of fun, especially if they are noisy), etc.  Teaching a little child, unless they have an immediate desire to play the piano, involves finding creative, concept based 'games'.

[tsagari]

Hi Dora,
I would speak again as a mother to you. I had similar concernes with you, wanted my children to start -music and other things like basket, ballet etc - from early on. However I realized that each child is unique. I think your son is too young for piano lessons or even kids music groups as you describe his situation. Even if he likes tv why don't you have him look at some Tom and Cherry cartooms which are full of classical well known pieces. My son always wanted to play the H. Rapsody or even the Aristocats there are so many. I think at this age is important for him to listen to music - in the car at home - and also watch you playing. I think it is enough. My young daughter - she is six - sings most of the pieces while I am playing and I think this is wonderful. Just think that there are piano students who had never heart the essential piano repertoire.
P/S My kinds also like Verdi and Bizet opera especially the chorus parts

[lostinidlewonder]

Blow up the TV. I think the TV is the worst invention in the world. It makes us all into stupid zombies. It robs children of their creativity. The same goes for blasted computer games! I wouldn't bother teaching anyone who cannot focus for more than 15 mins in a row. Usually kids above 6 yrs of age can handle that.

[morningstar]

OK this may sound mean but I don't know, not having any kids of my own (that i know of). Maybe use a goal-orientated punishment/reward kind of method? If he enjoys TV tell him if he gives you a certain amount of time at the piano he can watch TV. Gradually increase the time you want him to spend at the piano and hopefully he will come to enjoy it more. My parents used something like that on me when I was younger and when I advanced a little I actually came to enjoy it and started practicing without incentive to do so. And no, I don't think it's a waste of time to teach children when they're younger as long as they are somewhat willing to give their lessons some  attention, otherwise all that time is wasted. They aren't quite as capable but it will boost theit knowledge and coordination for when they do have the physical capabilities to play harder pieces. Hope this helps.

[dora96]

Since I posted this thread, my boy is sort of playing with keyboard. He is not playing any key yet. I taught him the Middle C since he was 2 years old. However, he can't remember, he will ask me that he wants to play the middle c, and ask me where is it? I will show him and ask him to hold the note for 4 counts, 3 counts, 2, counts and 1 count, and do the same with the left hand. After that, he said I have enough, don't want to do anymore.

Now his sister wants to learn the carinet, and I bought the carinet book with DVD. He will copy his sister by blowing the recorder. Again, he only does it for 5 minutes and have enough. That's ok to me, I really don't care as long as he starts doing something besides watching TV.

My daugther said her friend at year 6 is in grade 7. She is teaching beginner for $15 half hour. I thought I should let my son has one on one piano lesson with her. I don't know it is good idea or not. Firstly being a kid herself may be fun, and she is very smart girl and she has won the talent quest at school each year for the best instrument. Plus she will be independent individaul better than me because I am always tired, my son always asks me thing  in the wrong time and the wrong place which make me very tensed and agitated.

[morningstar]

That might be a good idea, let someone who is not already so emotionally attached to him (and tired) and is closer to his age try. Also might help because he won't be able to do anything else til the other teacher gets what she wants. Don't take this the wrong way please.

[tsagari]

Hi dora
Sorry to say but I do not think that it is a good idea. A six year old that can play advance pieces has no idea or experience how to teach a two year old. I my personal belief that this is a mistake. Either you find some experience teacher for this age group or drop for later. My six year old daughter started on Westday for the very first time. Her teacher told to find the C (do) on the piano. Here are some tips:
First she told her to touch all sets of two black keys and three black keys through out the piano many times and she told her that do is the first note next to the two black keys played with the thump. And the she had to play all the Cs. She aslo explain the she can hit the do with her nouse if she sit in the middle of the piano where the lock is.

[momopi]

Trick for kids:

Short lessons
Rewards after (usually food)
Lots of praise
Play for them

[tsagari]

I agree although for "rewards after" I would say stickers not food. Little boys like cars for example or heros . And for praise - my children' teacher writes "bravo" or excellent" at the top of their right hand or a stamp for the little ones who are very proud to show these marks to the proud mammy

[hyrst]

I am assuming the girl is 11  or 12.  You could always give it a try.  She might have a fun, understanding approach.  However, she is also pretty young and probably used to a lot of structure regards music (to be at her level).  Perhaps try it out wiithout making a big deal of it.  I think it is more important for you to realise that lessons with a young child basically require the parent to do the work with the child - in preschool lessons, the teacher teaches the parent how to teach the child more so than having lasting concept influence on the child directly.  That means, unless you want the lessons simply to be an activity once a week, nothing much might change - you will still be dealing with the same concerns you have now.  Your son might benefit from the  friendship if you are willing to pay for something like that.  All you can do is try, if you want to, and see how it goes.  Don't look at it as an answer to all your issues, though, or you probably will be disappointed.

[morningstar]

Hi dora
Sorry to say but I do not think that it is a good idea. A six year old that can play advance pieces has no idea or experience how to teach a two year old.

I believe Dora said the girl was year 6 not 6 years old? about 5-6 years difference...but other than that, duly noted.

[dan101]

The youngest student that I ever had was an old four year old, who only managed with a ton of help rom his exhausted dad. Although I don't dismiss the possibility of three being a possible age to start at, I think it is probably advantagious to wait for a larger attention span to kick in at six or seven years old.

Havig said that, exposing your child to different instruments (perhaps other percussion) in small doses is invaluable.

Good luck.

[pianisten1989]

Blow up the TV. I think the TV is the worst invention in the world. It makes us all into stupid zombies. It robs children of their creativity. The same goes for blasted computer games! I wouldn't bother teaching anyone who cannot focus for more than 15 mins in a row. Usually kids above 6 yrs of age can handle that.

Not everything on the TV is bad. I't channels like Disney channel thats blow up ones mind. There're plenty of program with educational message.

Anyway, if the child isn't intrested, I think it's a waste of time. He/she might end up as one who really dislike music and that's really sad.

[lostinidlewonder]

Not everything on the TV is bad. ..

You are right, the off button is the best I've always found the TV a big problem for many young students I teach. They love to sit and just watch it hours a day, it just eats away at their free time. When I was young my parents only let me watch limited TV per day, of course as a child I was annoyed  but it forced me to entertain myself instead of staring at a box. Nowadays it seems that families don't feel the need to restrict the TV watching. Learning from TV is a lazy way to learn, you are just fed information you make no decisions a apart from choosing the channel 

Anyway, if the child isn't intrested, I think it's a waste of time. He/she might end up as one who really dislike music and that's really sad.

Children are very easily encouraged I've found. Young children I've found love prizes, so making learning music into a game usually always interests them. This sounds like bribery and it is really, but it is an effective way to encourage interest in the young. Then once they start playing a few things on the piano they might find interest in it, if they still do not then they can leave, at least they gave it a go. But they need to be able to focus and concentrate, it is a big challenge for a teacher no matter what experience they have to instill this in youngsters.

[dora96]

I am sorry the unclear post. The girl at year 6. She is 11 year old. Her mother is also piano teacher, but her fee is bit high. For me I just want my son to have fun while he is learning the piano. I thought because she is 11 year old, not like us have more expectation. Her intelligence is still at the kid's level. Besides, she seems that has the experience in performing already. Kid to kid maybe work. I don't know,  I may give it a go.


The bad thing I have done,  I will put a TV show for my son to watch while I am teaching my daughter the piano, and help her practice sometimes. I am trying to provide undisturbed environment for my daughter to practice her piano. I think my son sometimes is confused. But I don't know how to keep his quiet during my daughter's practice. He doesn't want  to draw, or play toy, or read books. The quick and easy way for me to keep him quiet is to put on the TV.  He is not completely uninterested in music, but if there is a choice of course he will choose the thing he likes. Someone has said, they didn't like to learn or play piano when they were young, their parents will use reward or time out for them. If they didn't practice the piano for 30 minutes, they won't watch 30 minutes TV. Therefore, if they want to watch TV, or play computer game, they have to do it. But after they grew older and more advance. Their understanding and skill became easy, they started to enjoy it. They are glad that their parents is persisting and firm with their discipline. Knowledge is forever and everlasting for a person. I do believe as parents, we are trying to do the right thing because our experience in lives have shown us. I am trying not to have confrontation.

[hyrst]

Perhaps you could involve your son when you are working with your daughter.  Make a duet or take in turns.  He gets to press a key and count to 4 while she plays the bar, just an example.  It depends how much attention he woudl take away from your daughter and if he is able to share yet.

I don't believe in time out or other forms of punishment for not completing practice.  It sets up practice as a measurement of time rather than concentration, listening and effort.  While this is necessary to some extent for children, children should be able to say "I learnt to play this bar properly today" instead of "I played the piano for 5 minutes". 

Punishemnt also has a tendency to make practice itself into a punishment.  "You haven't done your sentence time at the piano, therefore you are going to pass your sentence by staying here and not doing what you want to."  However, saying "I am really proud of the work you put into practice today, therefore you can have extra TV time" or similar.  That is a reward system rather than a punishemnt system - to give in appreciation what they don't already see as a right,  rather than take away what they expect is normal. 

[hyrst]

I find age less of a factor in teaching than individual temperament.  I have students around 10 to 12 years who really don't push themselves, problem solve and concentrate.  Sure, they can sit and 'play pieces' for 30 minutes without wanting to jump up  and leave - but there is little quality or progress in their work.  On the other hand, I have two 4 year olds who love to play.  One takes in everything I tell her and cares about everything she does.  The other is very fast at everything, and doesn't listen to much she doesn't want to know about already - but she loves to play and will play proper music for an hour.  Her rate of progress is exceptional - better than the average 7 year old.  I only have one student who can't sit for half an hour - she is 6 and very restless.  While age has an effect on the average expected capacity, the individual differs greatly.  The behaviour in normal play and routine is carried into the approach to the piano in most cases - a child who fidgets will be a restless learner at the piano, a child who wants to achieve things is likely to be the same at the piano.  If that child wants to learn, a teacher needs to work out how to adapt their own system to that child's behaviours.  Some students I find it takes a great deal of effort and sometimes it might not really be worth it - the teacher has their own limits, too.

[pianisten1989]

You are right, the off button is the best I've always found the TV a big problem for many young students I teach. bla bla bla...

Oh, I guess you've never seen Little Einstein, which learn children about classical music, or any documetary about musicians?
Anyway, what if the childred dislike playing the piano? Forcing is never the right way, even if some ppl say so.
I started playing when I was 12. Even though I wish I would be intrested in playing a lot earlier, I don't wish I would start Playing.

If the children don't like playing the piano, but watch tv, it's not their fault. Playing piano is really boring, until you find if funny.
You just sit there, on the chair, pressing down something, and there comes this sound. It really isn't that fun!... unless THE TEACHER makes it fun for them. Not by shutting down the tv, och their computer, but making the piano more fun than anything. So don't blame the children for not want to play, it's not their fault.

[lostinidlewonder]

Oh, I guess you've never seen Little Einstein, which learn children about classical music, or any documetary about musicians?

I think anything that TV teaches, you should reinforce with studying it from other sources. The problem with TV is that most people think they can learn everything from it, where it in fact only is probably good to introduce us to facts. Most young children don't learn much from TV anyway, they probably remember less than 10% of what they watch, the rest of the time its just vegetating.

If the children don't like playing the piano, but watch tv, it's not their fault. Playing piano is really boring, until you find if funny.

Piano is boring until you find it funny? Wow never thought of it that way lol. In terms of a childs interest you don't want to make it all into a joke or game, but they should also realize that what they are doing is serious stuff and requires practice and determination (two important lessons for all youngsters who are just getting use to the idea of discipline.)

...unless THE TEACHER makes it fun for them. Not by shutting down the tv, och their computer, but making the piano more fun than anything. So don't blame the children for not want to play, it's not their fault.

I don't blame the young children but their parents. I tell all young students how lucky they are to have a piano lesson, because chances where their parents wouldn't have had the opportunity because of costs. Some kids don't appreciate lessons and I make them see how lucky they are to have a music lesson, and a private lesson to boot! Usually they understand how lucky they are to have parents willing to pay for them to have lessons. Those little brats who expect their parents to give everything to them, well I do give them a bit of my own mind, they wouldn't listen to it from their parents so from a stranger it sometimes makes them wake up a little bit.

There are some kids who are brought up getting everything they want and everything their own way. I'm not one to tell students not to watch TV, its not my job it is their parents. But I will shoot down any young students who give me the excuse they have no time to practice piano if I know for a fact that they watch hours of TV every day. And certainly I will not allow them to watch TV or play games during a lesson, that is just incredibly rude if they do that and none of them do it a second time if they try it with me ahha.

[pianisten1989]

The problem with TV is that most people think they can learn everything from it, where it in fact only is probably good to introduce us to facts.

Piano is boring until you find it funny? Wow never thought of it that way lol. In terms of a childs interest you don't want to make it all into a joke or game, but they should also realize that what they are doing is serious stuff and requires practice and determination

I don't blame the young children but their parents. I tell all young students how lucky they are to have a piano lesson, because chances where their parents wouldn't have had the opportunity because of costs. Some kids don't appreciate lessons and I make them see how lucky they are to have a music lesson, and a private lesson to boot!

1. Yes, it's just an introduction of the classical music. And that's all they need. They don't have to know everything, just having those 10%, and become intrested.

2. Yes, boting until they find if funny. It's not like soccer.even though you don't think it's funny, you probably understand why ppl find it funny. Piano is.. uhm.. more difficult to understand, you don't do a lot.

3. Oh, come on! So you rather want students who plays the piano like 5 hours a day, and aren't kids, but small grown ups (and probably isn't even intrested in playing, but is forced to) and with not many friends because they have to practice, than this happy kid, who maybe doens't play a lot, but still is a kid, and (with the right teacher, who's inspiring him/her to play) might become intrested?

I think kids should be kids, and if you aren't able to inspire them to play, then you probably shouldn't teach small children, but grown-ups who already are intrested.

[lostinidlewonder]

1. Yes, it's just an introduction of the classical music. And that's all they need. They don't have to know everything, just having those 10%, and become intrested.

This is given that they watch TV programs that are about classical music. I don't think that many young children actually do this. If they can focus on TV for 1 hour watching a program about classical music they can probably do a lot more constructive work in a piano lesson. This is not to say that they shouldn't be watching programs about classical music. Listening and watching experience is invaluable, but certainly this is not the sole introduction to making music.

....It's(piano) not like soccer.even though you don't think it's funny, you probably understand why ppl find it funny. Piano is.. uhm.. more difficult to understand, you don't do a lot.

You don't do a lot in piano so it can't be funny? You've confused me. I think the way you are using the term "funny" is being considered in a different way to what is usually accepted. Certainly the student should enjoy their lesson, but practice and discipline is not "funny" business it is hard work but we enjoy the result of our work.

3. Oh, come on! So you rather want students who plays the piano like 5 hours a day, and aren't kids, but small grown ups (and probably isn't even intrested in playing, but is forced to) and with not many friends because they have to practice, than this happy kid, who maybe doens't play a lot, but still is a kid, and (with the riaght teacher, who's inspiring him/her to play) might become intrested?

I never said anything about how long a student should practice or not having friends. Watching TV certainly is pretty unsociable so if they want to make more friends and participate in life they should stay away from it. Nothing about turning children into music practicing zombies.

I think kids should be kids, and if you aren't able to inspire them to play, then you probably shouldn't teach small children, but grown-ups who already are intrested.

What do you mean that kids should be kids? Kids require guidance and direction in life more so than any other stage in their life. Most of the time they do not like music because of the practice required to do it good. They like music and enjoy it, but as soon as work comes into the equation they become resistant. It is our responsibility as adults to instill in children discipline and knowing that you don't get anything for free in this world, if you want something done you must work at it. This is not taking any of their childhood away from them. Certainly reducing the amount of television in a childs life will drastically improve the time they spend on more creative/learning processes. I'm sorry to all those TV aficionados who despise the idea of reducing TV watching time .

[hyrst]

English is not Pianisten's first langauge.  He meant fun, in sense of enjoyable for whatever reason (games or sense of achievement and playing things they like the sound of) - NOT funny as in a joke or not serious.

[pianisten1989]

Thx, hyrst. Yes that's what i meant.
And I am from Sweden. That's a good excuse for having crappy english ^^

And clearly, we have different opinions about teaching children. and I don't really think a discussion here will help, since we don't understand each other.

I think it's FUN to practice, orelse I wouldn't do it 10 hours a day. I think Czerny's 40 daly exercises are FUN to play. And I mean fun, somtimes I even start laughing while practising. And I am not sarcastic or anything. But I think, If I am able to really enjoy pracitising, and not only the playing whehn it's done, I really think other peoble can think it's fun/enjoyable to practice.

And my theory is to make piano playing more fun than anything else, not take away everything fun, until the piano is the only think left.