What is it that gets copyright vs. what's public domain?

[Bob]

Say the work is clearly public domain, but you have a printed copy of it. 

Can you copy that yourself?  Stick it on a copy machine and make as many as you want?

Or does it matter if that's publisher's version is still copyrighted?  Say it's the Beethoven sonatas published by ABC Company.  Could you write out your own copy in your own print style with the information from that ABC copy?  Or could you freely reproduce it on a copy machine?   Or do you have to go back to the original handwritten manuscript and use that as a source?

Because some of the editions have more research behind them and they tweak some things.

I just wonder when I see someone copy something like that.  Sure, the work is public domain, but is that specific edition?  Isn't it ripping off the publisher if the piece was just published but it's a public domain work?

[quasimodo]

That's exactly what lead IMSLP to close down, check the topic about it, and the explanations that are on the website.

[thalbergmad]

Dear Bob,

The way i understand it is that a composers copyright lasts for 70 years after the composers death and publishers copyright lasts for 20 years.

I have never understood how a publisher can take for example a Beethoven sonata, write a couple of paragraphs about it, get some cheapo paper, put it all together with crappy staples, wrap it in a vile colour cover and then try and sell it and claim publishers copyright.

If you have a Beethoven Sonata that is an edition that is over 20 years old, you could make a million copies of it if you want.

The availability of pdf scores will eventually and thankfully put an end to Publishers trying to make money out of composers like Beethoven and hopefully it will put some of the profiteering bastards out of business.

Morally, they have as much right to a Beethoven Sonata as I have to the Guttenburg Bible.

Thal

[Bob]

Interesting.

Last night I ran across some Piano Street pdf's posted on other websites.  I think one was for a class.  I'm wondering how legal that is.  Are the ones here Nils' property?  Are they public domain?  People are paying to have access here and agree not to give them away, but is that legal either -- to post scores from here, or to say no one can post anything from here? 

And I ran into a library that was very concerned about people copying their piano music.  Photocopying.  But they had Schirmer, so...


Of course, Thal, you're in... New Zealand or England?  Is that U.S. copyright law? 

[thalbergmad]

I am in England, but wish that I were in new Zealand.

In good old England a work typically must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright. In addition as far as music is concerned, some labour and artistry would have needed to have been applied to claim a copyright on an existing public domain work.

On the FAQ sections of this site, Nils has written that all his pdf's have been created from public domain scores and then goes on to say that they cannot be shared. It would be difficult for him to take any civil action against anyone sharing the pdf's on this site unless he could show that they have some originality. Undoubtedly some considerable work has been done into creating commercially acceptable pdf's, but unless he has made textual changes, he would have problems enforcing copyright.

The other week, I found a 150 year old copy of a concerto by Woelfl and i spent 8 hours scanning it and cleaning it. Despite the effort involved, there is no way that i could claim any kind of copyright as it was artistically the same as the original.

There are a few internet sites such as Virtual Sheet Music and Easynote that have scanned public domain scores, stuck their imprint on them and then tried to sell them and claim copyright. In England, they would be hard pressed to take any action against someone sharing their scores.

However, I believe that one should always obey the rules of the site they are using, so I would not personally share any of the scores here and i hope nobody else would either. Surely we all owe that much to the site owner whos webspace provides us with so much fun.

Thal