Need Help with Liszt!

[EthanT]

Ok I've played Liszt's piano concerto number 1. And Hungarian Rhapsody Number 14 without any major problems... but when i try to play Hung Rhap. 6 ... my Arm practically falls off before i can finish the song. I mean i am literally exhausted by the time i hit the Presto ending, with that catchy melody. Most of Liszt's hungarian's are insanity, but then have a resting point. Well so does number 6 but my right arm is really in pain when I am hitting the Presto at about the last 20 seconds of the song... People say to losen my Wrist a little and do less arm movement.. but it's easier said than done! What should i do!

[Antnee]

How long have you been playing it? This piece requires alot of arm strength because of all those fast reapeating octaves. It takes months for muscles to grow, so your endurance should slowly build the longetr you play it. It is your arm (forearm) muscles that start to get tired right? Sort of think of it as work out. Play with it until you get tired and stop. Overworking our muscles isn't good. But working them enough stimulates the muscle growth, and that doesn't happen overnight. Give it some time....

-Tony-

[donjuan]

hehe, i love this piece!!  I was reading Joseph Hofmann's book, "Piano Playing", and he was once asked about rapid octave repetition. Here, I will type out a passage from the book:
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Question:
Should I play octaves using the "hinge stroke" from the wrist of by using the arm?  I find I can get more tone using the arm stroke, but cannot play so rapidly.

(Josef Hofmann) Answer:
The character of the octaves must govern the selection of means to produce them.  For light octaves use the wrist, for heavier ones draw more upon the arm.  Rapidity requires that you avoid fatigue.  If you feel fatique approaching from too constant use of one joint, change to the other, and in doing this change also the position of the hand from high to low, and vise versa.  For wrist octaves I recommend the low position of the hand, for arm octaves the high one.
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well, there you have it.  Great advice from one of the greatest musicians of our time.
donjuan

[argerich_smitten]

    Depending on what on what kind of technique you have developed, this could be totally useless...  but have you tried playing with weight in each of the octaves?  Obviously playing with full weight would be rediculous when trying to play at the required speed, but relaxing and playing with a light weight might work well.  One of the greatest things about weight-based technique is that it produces minimal fatigue.  If getting tired is your problem, give this a shot (if you haven't developed any weight-based technique, relaxing the correct amount to pull this off will be extremely difficult).  One way or another, you will still have to lose some of the wrist tension.  
    On another note, if you are truly in pain, STOP PLAYING, at least for a while.  Hurting yourself is the last thing you want to do.