I can't take this anymore!! WARNING: rant ahead

[gyzzzmo]

Well, the trick for many people is to practise alot of pieces at the same time, and knowing how to practise them efficiently. For example, if you practise only 2 (relativly short) pieces/phrases at the same time and want to spend many hours a day practising, you practise like 2+ hours each piece. And that is more than your brains are able to handle. Thats why its better to many pieces shorter and give your brains the time, and continuing that evening or next day.

Also you ofcourse have to pick alot of etudes that handle your weakness, and pick performance pieces that are always slightly harder than youre used to play. Then you'll see your efforts in the etudes reflect on your performance pieces, wich is motivating to continue and train even harder.

But that ofcourse requires a good teacher.

[db05]

  Woah, this is an old thread that even I have forgotten for a while. Thanks for the suggestions, mr, and gyzzzmo.

Edit: I was still quite calm a while ago. The bad feelings are coming back.

Also you ofcourse have to pick alot of etudes that handle your weakness, and pick performance pieces that are always slightly harder than youre used to play. Then you'll see your efforts in the etudes reflect on your performance pieces, wich is motivating to continue and train even harder.

Are you telling me to do what my classamtes do and hack away at harder pieces?

[gyzzzmo]

Woah, this is an old thread that even I have forgotten for a while. Thanks for the suggestions, mr, and gyzzzmo.

Edit: I was still quite calm a while ago. The bad feelings are coming back.

Are you telling me to do what my classamtes do and hack away at harder pieces?

Cant remember i used the word 'hack'. I'm telling you to work on your weakest point, playing 'Fur Elise' the rest of your life wont give you much of a learning curve, dont you think? So study pieces that are hard for you, they're hard for a reason. And if you notice you encounter phrases that you can't play technically, find yourself an etude that handles that type of difficult movements.

[db05]

Cant remember i used the word 'hack'. I'm telling you to work on your weakest point, playing 'Fur Elise' the rest of your life wont give you much of a learning curve, dont you think? So study pieces that are hard for you, they're hard for a reason. And if you notice you encounter phrases that you can't play technically, find yourself an etude that handles that type of difficult movements.

I've gotten fond of it, because it describes some students I've seen. I wanted to clear that up since Thal says there's nothing wrong with being a hack.

Now I see your point... Except sometimes I can't tell if a piece is too easy or hard, and which etudes are useful. I am given studies for no apparent reason. 

[gyzzzmo]

I've gotten fond of it, because it describes some students I've seen. I wanted to clear that up since Thal says there's nothing wrong with being a hack.

Now I see your point... Except sometimes I can't tell if a piece is too easy or hard, and which etudes are useful. I am given studies for no apparent reason. 

Then you should start thinking what the use of that study is. Many students just play etudes without any thinking, just because theyre used to it. And if you cant figure its purpose out yourself, ask your teacher. Knowing 'why' often helps with motivation for studying it.

[db05]

Since the semester is just starting, I can actually decide to tell my parents I don't want to enroll. School is getting unbearable lately. On one hand, classamtes hacking pieces to death, and on the other hand, most everyone is joining competition when I can't. I don't understand how these people can be so carefree/ careless and still play circles around me. Maybe I'm just a failure. Maybe I don't have any talent for music. Piano teacher is indifferent. Guitar teacher insists I finish this piece that I've been learning for 4 months now and I can't move on. Whatever it is, I'm not getting it.

I don't know what I want anymore. I'd rather be alone, but then, what am I studying music for?

[m19834]

what am I studying music for?

That's something that everybody has to figure out for themselves on an individual basis and sometimes over and over throughout one's life, even if they have a big performing career and tons of fame (they still have to live with themselves and their decisions).

Underneath whatever pointing fingers you may have as to why things feel the way they do for you, there is a private and personal reason (that only you will know) for your frustration.  Whatever that reason is will inevitably be the reason you need to continue and accomplish whatever it is that won't let you rest without accomplishing it.  The reason will be personal and will depend on you taking the footsteps necessary to move forward, though it may include other people and perhaps a change in circumstances.  At some point, selfishness may need to yeild to selflessness, even when it comes to fulfilling your own desires.

[db05]

That's something that everybody has to figure out for themselves on an individual basis and sometimes over and over throughout one's life, even if they have a big performing career and tons of fame (they still have to live with themselves and their decisions).

Lucky them, they had it easy. There's no need to think, am I going anywhere with this?

Underneath whatever pointing fingers you may have as to why things feel the way they do for you, there is a private and personal reason (that only you will know) for your frustration.  Whatever that reason is will inevitably be the reason you need to continue and accomplish whatever it is that won't let you rest without accomplishing it.  The reason will be personal and will depend on you taking the footsteps necessary to move forward, though it may include other people and perhaps a change in circumstances.  At some point, selfishness has to yeild to selflessness, even when it comes to fulfilling your own desires.

What if the reason is impossible, a pipe dream? What if it is not acceptable? 
Selfishness or selflessness I don't know about. I only know I have to be honest with myself or my conscience will pester me.

[gyzzzmo]

Since the semester is just starting, I can actually decide to tell my parents I don't want to enroll. School is getting unbearable lately. On one hand, classamtes hacking pieces to death, and on the other hand, most everyone is joining competition when I can't. I don't understand how these people can be so carefree/ careless and still play circles around me. Maybe I'm just a failure. Maybe I don't have any talent for music. Piano teacher is indifferent. Guitar teacher insists I finish this piece that I've been learning for 4 months now and I can't move on. Whatever it is, I'm not getting it.

I don't know what I want anymore. I'd rather be alone, but then, what am I studying music for?

Because they 'study', not 'hack'. You have to get that word out of your dictionary, else you will keep playing fur elise for the rest of your life. You improve yourself by playing a diversity of hard pieces and playing supportive etudes. So stop crying and having pity for yourself, instead look for your technical weaknesses and go work on them. I dont know what your level is, but Chopin etudes are a good basis for getting advanced technical control.

And if your teacher is indifferent, go have a long chat with him.

[db05]

Because they 'study', not 'hack'. You have to get that word out of your dictionary, else you will keep playing fur elise for the rest of your life.

No, THEY HACK, I STUDY. I'm actually glad I found that word, because nothing fits so well. None of them actually have practice methods. None of them read books/ articles on piano playing. None of them are members of this forum. I don't even think thay they bother to think before doing anything.

I hate to be the one to say this, but nobody respects music like I do. That's why I don't rush and I do what teacher tells me to. Which is to lay low.

[gyzzzmo]

No, THEY HACK, I STUDY. I'm actually glad I found that word, because nothing fits so well. None of them actually have practice methods. None of them read books/ articles on piano playing. None of them are members of this forum. I don't even think thay they bother to think before doing anything.

I hate to be the one to say this, but nobody respects music like I do. That's why I don't rush and I do what teacher tells me to. Which is to lay low.

No reading of books or articles about piano playing is required. As long as you have insight in WHAT and HOW you're practising things. Anyway, i'm gonna stick to that other topic of yours on the student corner, switching between 2 doesnt make much sense and is probably only confusing

gyzzzmo

[mr music]

Am depressed again. I just can't take it anymore! I had been stuck with lame piano teachers for a year now. I have no more trust in my teachers, all they tell me is to practice more, and that's it... I don't understand why I can't put in so much time, if that is the problem. I reach the point of diminishing returns after only an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. Either my head hurts, or my back, and errors after errors are made.

No one's telling me how to practice more efficiently, and it hurts that they're implying I'm lazy. Plus my classmates think I'm more intelligent and talented than I really am because I'm quite the critic. I have a classmate who has perfect pitch and is working on inventions and Chopin Waltz in C#m. And another who just started this March, he's playing Chopin Minute Waltz. I just don't understand why I can't progress as much. AT LEAST let me progress in piano as much as my guitar! Guitar has been slow and steady for me, and I have many performable pieces. On piano I have only 3 minuets.

I don't understand it at all. Everyone else is sight reading pieces HT until they get it right, using intuitive methods... And yet I'm falling behind. I don't exactly want to be a virtuoso, but the best piano teacher. But apparently the methods I use are lame. Practicing HS, segmental practice, memorizing pieces... Tell me, is this wrong?? But honestly, I can't practice any other way... I had been doing this from the start, because I had trouble sight-reading. It takes too long to learn a piece by sight reading, so I memorize it. So at this rate, I already cut my learning time in half, and yet I'm still behind!!

Am really frustrated now and can't go back to the piano. I feel cheated. I have invested my time learning practice methods, and searching this forum... all for nothing...

“Practice, practice, practice if you wish to play… the ability to sit and practise is a talent in itself… If you want a horse to win a mile race train him to run a mile and a half”

Sergei Rachmaninoff
1873 - 1943

“Patience, patience, patience and then more patience”

Sergei Rachmaninoff
1873 - 1943

“One must play a piece a thousand times, making a thousand experiments, listening, comparing, judging… for only as the individual learns to decide and to control his musical effect does he become an interpreter and come near to the stature of the composer whose works he should recreate. And only through unceasing labour can he accomplish such a mission”

Sergei Rachmaninoff
1873 - 1943

“Talent is feeling, the feeling which each player experiences in his innermost consciousness… there are no fixed rules and principles… it takes years of work to understand and think out problems in music… in the talented student the feeling for interpretation is never asleep”

Sergei Rachmaninoff
1873 - 1943

There are only two ways you can fail in music. One is if your dead, and if your dead well problem solved and the other is if you give up. You are a musician. Now think like it.

[allemande]

Just out of curiosity... How long have you been playing/studying piano?

[mr music]

Just out of curiosity... How long have you been playing/studying piano?

Doesn’t matter how long I've been playing/studying the piano. Music is music. You sing when you play. I cringe at the thought if Johann Sebastian Bach ever thought like that. I cannot even bare to think about it.

It’s a bit like well I've done all my subjects at school now. I'll think I be a gynecologist or a comedian. You don't become one you are one. You are a musician or not.

Best become a gynecologist I think.

[db05]

Just out of curiosity... How long have you been playing/studying piano?

Me? Started piano June last year, but I've already learned some basics in grade school and high school. And I was already learning guitar, so I could read and play music.

Being a musician never crossed my mind until high school, when I realized that although I had talent in math, I have no interest in studying science/ technology. The fact that I use computers a lot doesn't mean I want to be a programmer. And yet some people expect me to be that way. 

[allemande]

mr music, i wasn't asking you, i was asking db05. Anyways thanks for responding, i understand my questioo isn’t relevant to you, but I believe it is concerning what db05 is expressing.

ON the other hand I agree with you on the matter of music being music, but as a student or some perceiving a career in music, not only piano...any instrument. It does matter how long one has been studying in this particular case.

db05, I understand your anxiety, your thrill, and your need to do music and progress as much as you can within your capabilities. But you have to understand that you have only been studying for a year. 1 year. That’s nothing. You have to get used to the fact that piano playing and having control over the piano is a long process that takes time. I can see how your curiosity has lead you into informing yourself about vast pianists, composers, and you have knowledge of works and many things regarding piano. But remember that it is useless to compare yourself or try to be up to par to those standards in this way. Let’s say you start studying a Bach 2 voice invention, and you hear dozens of recordings by many professional pianists. Within your capabilities you can only reach a limit of playing that piece set only by the lack of ability you have with the instrument in comparison to the professionals. Which means, literally, you will only be able to study and play that piece your best for the time you have been playing piano. Does this make sense?
It is only natural for someone who is just beginning to crash constantly into walls and barriers with technique, ability, dexterity, musicality and everything piano playing implies. It is a process, I reassure you. Perhaps today correctly playing octaves seems impossible (to give an example), but if you study it correctly, thoroughly, and give it its time, you will achieve it. Practice and patience is key, everyone will tell you the same.

Also, I have read various threads of yours concerning learning a large number of pieces and reading music and you expressing your yearning desire to play more and play pieces that exceed your capabilities. Take things with ease, and assure yourself that everything you study is studied well and that you literally overcome its technical and musical difficulties, and more importantly, that you learn from that piece. I understand that many pieces are tempting, but do not exceed yourself because you only accomplish a sluggish, poor way of playing instead of a thoughtful concrete piano study which benefits you.

Concerning practice…  For a long time I am sure you will be struck by problems which you have expressed at the beginning of a thread. How to practice efficiently? Why are things coming out? How to practice better?  What to do? First, when you study you study with you study with your mind, then your hands. It is necessary to think things through in order to study efficiently. Study slowly, hands separate, concentrate on technique and musicality and making sure nothing is stiff, not your neck, your arms, your back, your wrists, your arms. There is no reason to be stiff, and if you are, make yourself not be and relax yourself by thinking it through. They key is relaxation, slow study, hands separate and hands together. Once again. It takes time. Time and efficient study and things will start coming out.

I would continue writing but I have to go. Good luck and glad to help.

[db05]

I would continue writing but I have to go. Good luck and glad to help.

I can't say I appreciate the looooooong post. Frankly, it's condescending. Either you really don't get it, or you're screwing me over. It's the kind of general advice my teachers give me when they have no real answers. "Practice... Practice slowly.... Practice with relaxation... Don't think too much..."

1 year is NOT nothing. A LOT can be done in one year. Ask Sir bernhard. In 6 months, his students are having Grade 8 pieces for breakfast. These are NOT the smartest, most talented students. Just ordinary people. I've been trying to piece together his method for months now, and several times I felt like giving up... And I haven't mentioned yet some individuals that have gone far in less than one year. Exceptional? Maybe.

[m19834]

Ask Sir bernhard.

How about you try actually asking him ? 

In 6 months, his students are having Grade 8 pieces for breakfast. These are NOT the smartest, most talented students. Just ordinary people.

Sounds as if you have first-hand experience.  What was it like being able to actually talk with him and not just read him ?   

I've been trying to piece together his method for months now, and several times I felt like giving up...

What "method" ?  He has told how he works on the forum.  Yes, reading and learning from articles is something anyway, hopefully something progressive, but in the end, there is no substitution for sitting at the piano with your hands and fingers on the keys, learning how to be more sensitive and have a clearer musical image.  And, reading somebody's thoughts, no matter how brilliant they may be, is no substitution for having somebody actually be in the same room with you, watching and hearing what you are doing, taking your entire person, and being willing to work with you at the instrument.

And, as I think we both know, being on the forum is no substitution for practicing.

[db05]

How about you try actually asking him ? 

Why do you think I start threads on here? It just so happened that he didn't get online since the time I posted my plans. Lucky me.

What "method" ?  He has told how he works on the forum.  Yes, reading and learning from articles is something anyway, hopefully something progressive, but in the end, there is no substitution for sitting at the piano with your hands and fingers on the keys, learning how to be more sensitive and have a clearer musical image.  And, reading somebody's thoughts, no matter how brilliant they may be, is no substitution for having somebody actually be in the same room with you, watching and hearing what you are doing, taking your entire person, and being willing to work with you at the instrument.

And, as I think we both know, being on the forum is no substitution for practicing.

My point is that a lot can be achieved in a year. A lot more than most people think. They think such progress is reserved for the most talented, or maybe those lucky enough to be a certain teacher's student. If you don't think it's possible, you won't be able to do it. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

 K. is Karli. (Or maybe, m1469.) Talking to a real-life friend, maybe even a pianist, is no substitute for talking to Karli. Or even just reading Karli's post, which may or may not be addressed to me. Hmmm... Can I love someone in real life like I love Karli? I think not. 

Edit: Great. Now I can't sleep.

[m19834]

Why do you think I start threads on here? It just so happened that he didn't get online since the time I posted my plans. Lucky me.

And how does that inspire you and help you along in your way ?  The thing is, you are proving exactly what I mean.  You can read all you want, you can post all you want, you can want all you want, but it doesn't matter unless you actually DO.  So when you have questions, where is he ?  It doesn't matter unless the individual is there in some way, mentally, and do you suppose that is the case for you ? 

My point is that a lot can be achieved in a year. A lot more than most people think. They think such progress is reserved for the most talented, or maybe those lucky enough to be a certain teacher's student. If you don't think it's possible, you won't be able to do it. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yep, that's a great point.  However, that is not Bernhard's little secret, that is something well-known througout the universe and even within cultures of the human race.  Yep, seeing it is believing it, at least that is how many things work, and the point is, it is one thing to read it, and it is another thing to see it.  So, you have read Bernhard, you have studied him (or so) and perhaps even have made lists and applied his ideas, yet you are still frustrated and feeling like giving up.  How have you actually ever begun to think "anything is possible" by reading Bernhard ?  So far I don't see any evidence of that.  My point is, you don't know what actually takes place in his studio, with his students, or in his life, because you are not part of it beyond what you can read on the page, and what you read on the page can only do so much for you, and in your case, it is not enough.

K. is Karli. (Or maybe, M..) Talking to a real-life friend, maybe even a pianist, is no substitute for talking to Karli. Or even just reading Karli's post, which may or may not be addressed to me. Hmmm... Can I love someone in real life like I love Karli? I think not. 

Edit: Great. Now I can't sleep.

Now that's just silly.  My rule is that people always love me more in real life  .

[m19834]

I have to add that I actually found allemande's post to be helpful, though it wouldn't have necessarily been so at a different point in my life.  The thing is, DB, we need different things at different times, and sometimes that involves other people (a variety of other people) and sometimes it doesn't.  Your job (and yes, you do have one) is to take these opportunities to get to know yourself and how you work best, and that will change throughout your life.  My bottom line is how much I am actually getting under my "fingers" repertoire-wise, and what kind of quality it is (as well as my general mental state).  Sometimes reading somebody's thoughts on something and adopting structures and models can help, no doubt about it, especially with somebody like Bernhard, but that can only go so far, "unfortunately."

Whatever your situation with your teachers actually is, it isn't necessarily that your teachers are horrible and so on, it may just be a mismatch for where you are at during this particular stage in your career.  Those are things that you need to start trying to pay attention to as best as you can.  Try to develop some kind of way to measure what you feel is really working for you and what is not.  Like I said, for me it has a lot to do with how much I am getting done repertoire-wise and what kind of quality I am actually putting into it and getting out of it.  I also tend to take note of my mental state, am I constantly frustrated ? (this has actually lasted years for me sometimes).  Am I breaking through barriers or just coming up to them and then backing away ?  Am I feeling confident (on some level) and motivated ?  These are the sorts of things you need to pay attention to in yourself, as best as you can, and ideally, whatever teacher you have in your life is also trying to percieve these things as well, and help you along the way.

I need to go for now. 

[mr music]

Allemande, I assumed your comment was directed at me and was surprised too say the least. I deeply apologize.

Db... listen to these people what they are advising you. It is absolutely spot on.

Something else. Really, when you think about it, if you play a piece by Tchaikovsky, Tchaikovsky is your teacher. If you play a piece by Rachmaninoff, Rachmaninoff is your teacher and so on. Now I know depending on your capabilities as a pianist of technique and how teachers may be able to tell you how to play better or differently, interpretation or whatever, the composers!, the composers!, they are YOUR real teachers, they are telling you how they want the music to sound. Now I know you don’t have much dialogue with them, but really you must look, you must listen, you must imagine to what they are showing you. You are recreating the music. You are bringing it alive. Sometimes I feel sorry for all the music sitting in boxes in my studio and I’m working on one piece, it all looks dead, that is, until you bring it alive. You must breath, sleep, eat the music. You must be greedy for more and more.

I won’t go on now as you may be ready to throw a book through the screen, but I just want to say music is, very much how you think about it. But if you play music, you ARE a musician.

[db05]

With regards to my last posts, sorry, Sir allemande, and Ma'am Karli. I got carried away. Showing my true colors on this forum now. That's how vexed I am, that I am unable to keep my cool both here and in "real life".

I feel limited by my teachers. That's the problem. I don't expect them to be very brilliant like some people on here. And I don't expect to be as good as some students on here, but I do want to feel like I'm getting somewhere. And for some time, I don't feel like getting anywhere, and actually being LEFT BEHIND.

So I find Sir allemande's post really condescending. I'd rather not get into that now. Cooling my head.

[gyzzzmo]

Then go talk to your teachers, complaining here wont get you anywhere. And if the chat with your teachers isnt convincing, go get another teacher

gl,

gyzzzmo

[m19834]

I feel limited by my teachers.

We are seemingly limited by everything, at this point, but especially by our own perceptions of everything around us.  The only time we are not limited is when we are glimpsing the eternal, and as all-encompassing as that can be, our general perception of life still exists as a "problem" in working out what seems to be a timeline.  And on that timeline, the glimpsing of eternity is a dot, which served as some small step in our progress.

[db05]

We are seemingly limited by everything, at this point, but especially by our own perceptions of everything around us.  The only time we are not limited is when we are glimpsing the eternal, and as all-encompassing as that can be, our general perception of life still exists as a "problem" in working out what seems to be a timeline.  And on that timeline, the glimpsing of eternity is a dot, which served as some small step in our progress.

Most truly true, Ma'am Karli.

I am too tired to argue one way or the other. But I will be back to piano sure enough when I get better.

[m19834]

I will be back to piano sure enough when I get better.

If you are too tired to argue, why don't you go to the piano now and focus on something very small.  You don't have to figure everything out about your life to focus, you know.  You just have to focus on the task.  Who knows, you may find that it actually helps you to get better  :-.

[db05]

If you are too tired to argue, why don't you go to the piano now and focus on something very small.  You don't have to figure everything out about your life to focus, you know.  You just have to focus on the task.  Who knows, you may find that it actually helps you to get better  .

It's too late in the evening to go to piano room. I did practice a bit today, but I felt so oddly cold (got a slight fever actually) and I got a headache. Then someone was playing drums in the other room (this music school has little soundproofing), and it became unbearable. Noise... people talking... noise... it bothers me more than ever. I have to get away for a while.

I would go back, I always did. I don't know why.

[gyzzzmo]

It's too late in the evening to go to piano room. I did practice a bit today, but I felt so oddly cold (got a slight fever actually) and I got a headache. Then someone was playing drums in the other room (this music school has little soundproofing), and it became unbearable. Noise... people talking... noise... it bothers me more than ever. I have to get away for a while.

I would go back, I always did. I don't know why.

You've got to show some spine. You seem to be talking yourself into even more misery than there actually is. Maybe its puberty, but you should try to get a grip on yourself. If you want some change, you have to talk to your teacher. Talk to him about what goal you have, that you want to progress more and that you have to play many more etudes instead of that silly wishlist you posted on another thread wich will get you nowhere.

So be strong, talk to your teacher and let us know what he/she proposed. Make us proud

Gyzzzmo

[db05]

You've got to show some spine. You seem to be talking yourself into even more misery than there actually is. Maybe its puberty, but you should try to get a grip on yourself. If you want some change, you have to talk to your teacher. Talk to him about what goal you have, that you want to progress more and that you have to play many more etudes instead of that silly wishlist you posted on another thread wich will get you nowhere.

So be strong, talk to your teacher and let us know what he/she proposed. Make us proud

Gyzzzmo

  Spine?

Etudes... my teacher suggested/ agreed to Czerny Op. 636 (instead of 599) after a a couple months. Plus a Mozart sonata. Still no skipping Bach, so I'm not sure if I can go on to inventions. And no Chopin. 

If I'm getting your ideas right, then inventions count as studies, right? Training for the fingers, right? And still being musical. I'm giving it a thought. Either a Bach or a Chopin. Despite the curriculum.

Silly wishlist? What do you expect in one year? FI?!?! I'm only required to tackle Bach and sonatina/ sonata, that's it. Everything else is what I'd like to play. And sight reading. So I have weird (easy?) tastes. LOL. 

For the bigger, un-updated list, go to my 5-year plan thread. Just ignore the part about Hammerklavier, Rach 2 and OC. Now THAT was silly of me. 

I'll be bach when I have practiced something.

[morningstar]

You've got to show some spine. You seem to be talking yourself into even more misery than there actually is. Maybe its puberty, but you should try to get a grip on yourself. If you want some change, you have to talk to your teacher. Talk to him about what goal you have, that you want to progress more and that you have to play many more etudes instead of that silly wishlist you posted on another thread wich will get you nowhere.

So be strong, talk to your teacher and let us know what he/she proposed. Make us proud

Gyzzzmo

You have a point. Get up and have another go db!
Sorry I haven't read this thread since it started so this is a bit behind but I think that playing pieces that are a bit harder than what you are normally capable of is good for you, it creates a greater challenge for you. You either work harder to overcome it (thus getting a positive experience) or give up and go back to wallowing in misery...
Hopefully the former.

[gyzzzmo]

Spine?

Etudes... my teacher suggested/ agreed to Czerny Op. 636 (instead of 599) after a a couple months. Plus a Mozart sonata. Still no skipping Bach, so I'm not sure if I can go on to inventions. And no Chopin. 

If I'm getting your ideas right, then inventions count as studies, right? Training for the fingers, right? And still being musical. I'm giving it a thought. Either a Bach or a Chopin. Despite the curriculum.

Silly wishlist? What do you expect in one year? FI?!?! I'm only required to tackle Bach and sonatina/ sonata, that's it. Everything else is what I'd like to play. And sight reading. So I have weird (easy?) tastes. LOL. 

For the bigger, un-updated list, go to my 5-year plan thread. Just ignore the part about Hammerklavier, Rach 2 and OC. Now THAT was silly of me. 

I'll be bach when I have practiced something.

Spine... i gues that was a too direct translation from a dutch saying

I personally think your teacher should put you on Czerny right away, but that's his choise and i dont know exactly how you play. Bach is always good, both musically and technically because you train your left hand control alot more than in other pieces from other composers in general.
About your wishlist, i already told you on your other thread why that wishlist isnt any good, plus i dont know why you should make a wishlist anyway. Pieces should be chosen to improve you musically and technically, not because of some wishlist you made earlier.

So get rid of the word 'wishlist' and get the word 'improve' in your head and see to wich pieces it leads you.

gyzzzmo

[db05]

Spine... i gues that was a too direct translation from a dutch saying

I personally think your teacher should put you on Czerny right away, but that's his choise and i dont know exactly how you play. Bach is always good, both musically and technically because you train your left hand control alot more than in other pieces from other composers in general.
About your wishlist, i already told you on your other thread why that wishlist isnt any good, plus i dont know why you should make a wishlist anyway. Pieces should be chosen to improve you musically and technically, not because of some wishlist you made earlier.

Spine... do you mean needle or backbone?

Forgot to mention that I have been working on Czerny for a while now, but it's the Op 599 (Practical Method for Beginners). Are you suggesting I start the Op 636 (Prelim Sch of Finger Dexterity) ahead of time?

I get your point, not totally agreeing though. Wishlist wasn't my term anyhow LOL. But not everything is an etude. Some are for performance. Some are pieces I want to play before I die LOLOLOL.  But scratch the "wishlist" (some of it), and I'll make it a point to work on something technical all the time aside from the pieces already required. Juggling Czerny, Bach and Chopin. Or maybe just Bach first. I went back to the Inv.1 I started about a month ago. Much better now than then, more stable hands, I think.

[kard]

yay for progress. I'm smiling at your tragedies because it's weird how I've been going through a similar thought process. As soon as I used to get wind of 'this method' or 'that method', I'd have such weirdly high expectations. It's like, "Finally, I can play whatever I want now." But then reality (usually the next practice session) hits and I would realize, "Nope, not there yet." <--in a much more dramatic, angsty fashion lol

Nowadays, this doesn't really happen with methods so much as me finding new thought process and then getting disappointed.
But the funny thing about a huge number of 'epic fail' practice days is that, the next method is always somehow better. Perhaps all the different methods that I've gone through are addressing completely different things that I'm not even aware of.
Ex. Maybe today's strategy of imagining the notes as unique points on a continuum made up of keys only addresses note location and interval recognition skills, but when I go to my lessons and the teacher expects a much more consistent, well articulated sound, or maybe, the next practice I'll find that it just doesn't work quite correctly, I'll to completely crash out of despair (veeery dramatic lol), regroup, and go at it again.
Proficiency = Thousands of hours at least ^^"
If you check my posts actually, you might see me giving different forms of advice here and there. They are almost unrelated, but successive. Does that make sense?

Anyway, here's where my head is at right now.
The general rule that I've picked up since I started lessons (yay university ) is that if you're not paying attention to sound, you are working on something unrelated to music. It maybe some sort of playing mechanism practice (learning how to use your hands appropriately). While this is important, it is never to be your absolute focus. A musician's absolute focus should be the sound he produces.
got that? ok.

Focus = sound.
sound = hammer hits string, finger holds down key, finger lets go and the damper   (is that the right word?) kills the sound.
That's the only degree of active thinking I have allowed myself to do since this method took shape.

The difficulty is in drawing parallels to your hands, your body etc. All three parts to the sound require a parallel. You have to create that parallel. The more relaxed you are, the better. The less movement, the better. You achieve this by localizing all of your mental cues about these parallels to your fingers...but even then...there is the distinction between localizing and the finger school...
Ok, I'm gonna stop right there ^^" lol unless you guys ask for more. Do you see what I mean? Do you see the amount of things that need to be considered? The amount of variables? That's why you need failure, so that you can work on a concept that may not be central (such as what I mean by 'localizing' rather than finger school).

To conclude, here is what I tell myself when I go to the practice rooms.
"The goal is sound. The goal is the relaxed, well supported production of well articulated, well controlled sound."
This minimizes the act to the point where I have freedom to think about the music. I wonder what will develop out of the eventual failure of this method?

So, next time you get knocked over, please remember that it's a part of the process. No matter how well regarded a method is, it still takes a huge amount of time for the relaxed execution of that method. (I'm talking to myself too lol)

Good luck. Have fun failing 

[db05]

yay for progress. I'm smiling at your tragedies because it's weird how I've been going through a similar thought process. As soon as I used to get wind of 'this method' or 'that method', I'd have such weirdly high expectations. It's like, "Finally, I can play whatever I want now." But then reality (usually the next practice session) hits and I would realize, "Nope, not there yet." <--in a much more dramatic, angsty fashion lol
...
Good luck. Have fun failing 

LOL? 

Progress? I don't know. Maybe it's just a psychological thing. I'm so unstable that I've learned to expect the downs. Then it hit me. What's the use? I can become the greatest pianist technically, but I don't have the social skills to perform for large groups and the stability and consistency to practice on a regular basis.

The last lesson was mostly my teacher telling me about the past grand recital competition, how people were judged unfairly in the audition and in the finals. And about how she would never let her students get around the rules. Even if they lose unjustly. This is the reason why I am not in, though my classmates are. I now see I have a more serious teacher than I thought... With high standards.

It's sad but, in the end, the methods, the planning, thinking, practicing, even the blood, sweat and tears don't matter. The listener doesn't know half of what I go through. Not even my teacher knows that much. At the end of the day, it's just you and the low or high standards you set for yourself.

I don't care about the competition now anyway, so screw everyone else. 

[kard]

LOL? 

Progress? I don't know. Maybe it's just a psychological thing. I'm so unstable that I've learned to expect the downs. Then it hit me. What's the use? I can become the greatest pianist technically, but I don't have the social skills to perform for large groups and the stability and consistency to practice on a regular basis.

It's sad but, in the end, the methods, the planning, thinking, practicing, even the blood, sweat and tears don't matter. The listener doesn't know half of what I go through. Not even my teacher knows that much. At the end of the day, it's just you and the low or high standards you set for yourself.

I don't care about the competition now anyway, so screw everyone else. 

We are musical twins    My problem would probably be the consistency rather than the social aspect.

Yea, knowing that a sort of failure is inevitable is an important part of keeping yourself together.

And you are absolutely right. No one else knows the inner workings. I think the inner workings are actually a lot of the appeal in playing music. Imagine having your whole sense of existence being tied up with a beautiful piece of music. That is probably why relaxation is so important. The more appropriately you relax, the more you can fall away into the music while retaining control.
 

[db05]

We are musical twins    My problem would probably be the consistency rather than the social aspect.

Yea, knowing that a sort of failure is inevitable is an important part of keeping yourself together.

Yay!  It's nice to meet you.

I'm not in the shape to do major planning work yet, as you can see, just got out of a major depression. Although it didn't last half as long as I expected, that was the worst ever. It's difficult to feel unwanted. So my mind is still pretty messed up. I only end up doing what I feel like doing, and piano is one of those things. I don't know if that's called being relaxed LOL. Still in limbo.