Czerny sonatas

[soderlund]

Are these works some hidden gems in the jungle of Czerny etudes? I have never heard any of his sonatas, and just recently found out that he wrote so many - about ten of them if I am correct. Has anyone played one? Or are they just examples of his etude writing, with the title Sonata attached? It would be nice to hear some real, serious music from him. Every piece I find that is not labelled an etude seems very technical anyway, like his Toccata. It could equally well have been an etude in doublegrips. So I wonder if these sonatas really are works serving the music, not the technical aspects of piano playing, I hope I make myself clear 

[thalbergmad]

There is a distinct difference between the Czerny Etudes and the Sonatas and it would be impossible to confuse the two upon hearing or playing them.

Admittedly, i think i have only heard one sonata and played through three of them, but they are effective works whilst not demanding too much of the listener or the performer.

Indeed they do not stand alongside the might of Beethoven, and we can accuse Czerny of not knowing what to do with a nice theme when he finds one, but for someone looking for something outside of the mainstream, his sonatas deserve a visit.

Thal

[argerichfan]

... but for someone looking for something outside of the mainstream, [Czerny's] sonatas deserve a visit.

Yes, but after visiting the Weber sonatas, which IMHO are underrated and superior to Czerny. 

[iumonito]

The Czerny gems are his sets of variations.  The sonatas (and paraphrases, for that matter) are formulaic.  He also has some truly beautiful slow contrapuntal works.

Thal, that thing for organ Czerny wrote (Op. 627, if I am not confused (what a wasted neuron either way), is there a transcription for piano solo?  If there isn't, I'll dedicate you one (the only way I can get in the same jet-set group with piano geniuses Marik and Koji, hehe, or at least pretend!)

See if this still works:

)

Thal, while you are at it, do you happen to have Op. 627?  Thanks in advance.

[thalbergmad]

Yes, but after visiting the Weber sonatas, which IMHO are underrated and superior to Czerny. 

Oh yes, i completely agree.

Woelfl & Dussek and probably others should yeald greater pleasures than Czerny.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

The Czerny gems are his sets of variations.  The sonatas (and paraphrases, for that matter) are formulaic.  He also has some truly beautiful slow contrapuntal works.

Thal, that thing for organ Czerny wrote (Op. 627, if I am not confused

Yes, i would agree that his best works are probably his variations. He displays a sparkling wit on many of these pieces and they are a joy to listen to. His operatic transcriptions i often find a little too "straight" and uninventive. That said, i have only looked at a small proportion of his works. A fuller investigation would take years.

I think you mean Op 607 for the organ piece old chap. I know of no piano transcription.

Thal

[iumonito]

Nope, but you nailed it anyway: Op. 603 No. 3.

Thanks!

[general disarray]

Yes, but after visiting the Weber sonatas, which IMHO are underrated and superior to Czerny. 

Ah, "argerichfan" are you the same "argerichfan" who posts on Piano Worlds Piano Forums?  If so, I recall how unfair you were with the poster who provided a link from "The New Yorker" magazine regarding the Joyce Hatto affair?  Remember?  His screen name, I believe, was "Aldous" and he had permission to provide that "New Yorker" link, but you refused to acknowledge that fact and accused him of copyright infringement. 

He, in fact, proved that his link had the approval of "The New Yorker" but you did not relent nor did you apologize.  And, as I recall, you still use -- as an avatar on the Piano
Forums site -- a reproduction of a Deutsche Grammophon album cover featuring a photograph of Martha Argerich -- and still, as I recall, you have never credited the designer of that album nor the photographer.  What about copyright infringement in this case?  You remained silent on that forum when confronted with this issue.

Care to discuss it here?   

[thalbergmad]

Digging up old bones rarely serves any purpose.

Thal

[iumonito]

Dogs, archeologists, forensic criminal investigators, and the little bloke in the Mahler miniopera are rolling!!!!

For me, the best bones ever digged up are a little musical pun in the Carnival of Animals wrhere Saint-Saens quotes himself and Rossini at the same time for a lovely 8 measures!

Any, GD, you ask AF to meet you outside.  Or settle the matter with a piano duel.

...On Rode-Czerny, of course.  There has to be a link to the thread.

[argerichfan]

Ah, "argerichfan" are you the same "argerichfan" who posts on Piano Worlds Piano Forums?  If so, I recall how unfair you were with the poster who provided a link from "The New Yorker" magazine regarding the Joyce Hatto affair?   

I was emphatically NOT the person complaining about The New Yorker article.  (I know who that was.)  In response to another's post I agreed I would purchase the magazine... yet later on it became apparent that this article was free for anyone to read online, which I subsequently did. 

My big issue with Hatto was that I had suspected something fishy all along, and was quite interested when her story came to light and my suspicions were confirmed.  There were several threads on this at Piano World, and I was consistent -perhaps tiresomely so- in expressing my views.

Here's the link

As for my avatar, I found it via a Google search at a site not connected in any way with DG or Universal.  I don't see what the big fuss is, I'm not financially gaining from it.

[gep]

To return to Czerny Sonatas, I recently heard Sonata no. 6 for the first time (Martin Jones on Nimbus), and must say was pleasantly surprised. No, he doesn't match the late Beethoven Sonatas (Czerny's no. 6 was written in 1827, btw, when Beethoven was indeed late), but then, what does? In anything, it sounds more like Schubert, with quite a bit on uneasyness etc. under the surface, and sometimes quite ON the surface. The very opening, with its rising line of pairs of falling seconds, is quite unsettling and when these same notes reappear in the 2nd Scherzo's Trio the effect is even more unsetling. The piece as a whole quite had my attention for the whole 50 minutes it lasted.

I'd say, do sample!

All best,
gep

[thalbergmad]

I would also recommend his Variations on a Theme by Haydn as recorded by Blumenthal.

What a little gem.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

Yes, but after visiting the Weber sonatas, which IMHO are underrated and superior to Czerny. 

I love the Weber sonatas, especially no.3.

[pianovirus]

Now that this thread is alive again, let me add that I love Czerny's 1st sonata op. 7. It's a masterwork without any reservation. I have a great live recording by Aldo Ciccolini (kindly shared by a fellow pianophiliac) - this thread reminds me to get back to it again!