Most Underplayed/Underrated Composers/Pieces

[learner of liszt]

There's a thread near this one about overrated/overplayed composers. Here's one about underplayed/rated composers/pieces. Personally I think Godowsky and Alkan are the most ignored great composers. I actually like Alkan's music about as much as Liszt's. As for Godowsky, there's recordings of what, two of his pieces (exageration, but not by much!)?
But what I have heard, I enjoy quite a lot. Post your opinions.

[dnephi]

Liszt, Scriabin, Brahms, Bortkiewicz, Medtner, Stravinsky. 

I think that Godowsky was interesting and is worth playing if you have no difficulty playing such monstrous works as his etudes and the passacaglia.

Alkan is highly variant in his quality, but worth playing usually.  There are times when he produces a real gem.

[learner of liszt]

Liszt's transcriptions of anything, like the Beethoven symphonies. Not many recordings of those out there.

[communist]

Grieg and Tchaikovsky

[akonow]

Grieg and Tchaikovsky

What?? Grieg's Piano Concerto is one of the most famous pieces of piano literature and Tchaikovsky is probably one of the most popular composers in general (who isn't familiar with the Nutcracker Suite?). I hope you are just being untimely sarcastic...

Anyway, I agree Alkan is vastly underplayed. I also think that Dobrzynski, Scharwenka, Spohr, and Von Weber are underplayed but mostly Scharwenka.

Cui however is played just about the right amount...

[redbaron]

Scriabin. Obviously he's quite popular with pianists but with the general public i think he's criminally underrated.

[mikey6]

Liszt, Brahms, Stravinsky. 

Ahm....wha?  Underplayed? not really.  underated?  not really.

[michel dvorsky]

Brahms' solo works (especially 3rd Sonata, Intermezzi) are underplayed, imo.

[richard black]

Liszt is certainly underrated and underplayed, overall. Yes, some of his piano pieces get regular outings (too regular, in some cases), but the songs, symphonic poems, some corners of the piano repertoire.... are another story entirely.

Godowsky is quite popular now compared with how he was 20 years ago when I first got interested. Then, it was really hard to find recordings of anything. Now, there are quite a few recordings floating around - though for sure we could use more.

Grieg, like Liszt, is only partly popular. When did you last hear his 'Slatter', for instance?

Busoni might also get mentioned in this context.... Among pianists, Antonin Reicha too - only his wind music seems to get played and it may just be the least interesting part of his output.

But my vote for most underrated and underplayed composer goes to Ildebrando Pizzetti. Large and varied output (sorry, not much for piano, though the one sonata is a gem) of astonishingly high quality pretty much throughout, and he's utterly obscure. Honestly, he's responsible for some of the most beautiful music written in the 20th century.

[argerichfan]

I hope you are just being untimely sarcastic...

If not, then we have a serious problem!

... but mostly Scharwenka.

You have quite a "thing" for Scharwenka... is this a recent romance? 

Cui however is played just about the right amount...

Yeah, the Orientale is probably sufficient for most of us.

[akonow]

You have quite a "thing" for Scharwenka... is this a recent romance?

Well, yes. Scharwenka is very much overlooked, so rarely performed, and has perhaps the most evasive sheet music on the planet. The reasons for this is really beyond me because he was incredibly popular in his time and he is a very romantic composer with wonderfully vibrant and Polish melodies. It may be because the world can only stand having one famous Polish composer or it may be because he isn't really incredibly innovative but, then again, so are many others with a hundred times his fame... (Brahms, Tchaikovsky, etc.) All in all, it's really a shame that pieces like his sonatas, waltzes, Polish dances, and piano concertos are simply forgotten. I am keeping my fingers crossed for him to become popular because there is not a piece of his that I don't enjoy.

[dnephi]

Ahm....wha?  Underplayed? not really.  underated?  not really.

Liszt is overplayed but greatly underrated.  Brahms' piano pieces are underplayed, and Stravinsky's solo music is almost never heard. 

Regards,

Daniel

[mikey6]

It depends on the quality of the work.  Only amateurs or rarity experts are gonna spend the time learning the lesser repertoire of the greats when there's the much better stuff to choose from.
Plus there's sooo much piano literature out there, and so many concerts happening, how can one possibly make a sound judgement as to what's under/overplayed.
One could say Schubert is underated coz his operas don't get performed that often, or Beethoven coz his oratorios don't get performed that often.
I know I'm sort of putting a downer on this thread but there needs to be some justification, or a re-wording.

[franzliszt2]

I think it all depends on how you compare them. One piece can only be overplayed in relation to another. It also depends on who performs the piece,,,Moonlight sonata is played by a lot of bad pianists...bhut how often do we actually see it being played by professional pianists? It is a great work when played well...but that is very rarely heard.

I think the problem is...many of the great works of Godowsky, Busoni, Feinberg etc...was that they were writing for themselves, and they and few others could play them. So they were not heard as often, and they didn't have tv's and internet to advertise the music. Plus music was held much higher in society. I mean to go to a concert back then was a big event, and usually for the middle upper classes. Now...the music of these masters is everywhere, and has been opened to a whole new breed of pianists who listen to it to marvel at the speed at virtuosity. It only takes a few minutes of reading the writings of Busoni, Godowsky etc...to realise that that was never what they intended. Godowsky pushed the limits of technique so a whole new world of expression could emerge from the piano.

Have we any living pianist who has the genius of Godowsky, Alkan, Liszt, Rachmaninoff? Now we have many great pianists, but they don't play very often! Look at Zimerman, he doesn't exactly play all the time. I don't argue that Hamelin isn't a great pianist, I have my own opininions on his playing....but I think it is safe to say that his playing hardly burns with Romanticism.

Why is Alkan underplayed? Because he has now got such a reputation for being "raped" by bad pianists, and that it is all about virtuosity. People are not really interested in that at all. They go to a concert to enjoy music.


I think the way forward, is to include these pieces in normal recitals, and stop this whole concept for rare works. Like why not just throw some Alkan into a recital with Mozart or Bach? It would work. Instead of forming recitals of all rare pieces which will just include enthusiastic amateaurs. It would be quite easy, becasue you would get audiences coming to see a Bach Partita...then you have them in the hall....THEN play Alkan Symphony or something, and they may just like it if it is play well.

The problem is not the music, but the appreciation of the music by pianists who are pianists and not musicians. How is it that a non musician can still love a Schubert song, or Beethoven sonata, and then suddenly say erghh to Alkan Symhony? Is the music of a lower quality? Or does one have to be trained to appreciate this music?

[argerichfan]

One could say Schubert is underated coz his operas don't get performed that often, or Beethoven coz his oratorios don't get performed that often.

The problem with the Schubert operas is that whilst they contain some wonderful music, they're theatrically hopeless.  Schubert had little feel for dramatic pacing.  Yet I don't think that makes Schubert underrated, nor does it mar the genius of his accomplishments in other areas. 

Beethoven's oratorios are still performed by amateur choral societies -though not with the frequency of Victorian England- but no one would argue that Beethoven bestowed his greatest inspirations on them. 

[michel dvorsky]

The problem with the Schubert operas is that whilst they contain some wonderful music, they're theatrically hopeless.  Schubert had little feel for dramatic pacing.  Yet I don't think that makes Schubert underrated, nor does it mar the genius of his accomplishments in other areas. 

That`s our failure as interpreters, not Schubert`s as composer.

Tell me Schnabel`s Schubert doesn`t have ``dramatic pacing``...

[akonow]

Moonlight sonata is played by a lot of bad pianists...bhut how often do we actually see it being played by professional pianists? It is a great work when played well...but that is very rarely heard.

Actually Horowitz, Ashkenazy, Barenboim, Brendel, Rubinstein, Gilels, Grimaud, Pollini, Kempff, Arrau, Paderewski, Gulda, Pletnev, Luganksy, Backhaus, and Schnabel have all recorded the Moonlight Sonata... I doubt they never played it in public.

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. (Plato)

That's quite a self-congratulatory statement there by Plato.

[argerichfan]

That`s our failure as interpreters, not Schubert`s as composer.

Tell me Schnabel`s Schubert doesn`t have ``dramatic pacing``...

Well m d, I'm confused by your response.  I was speaking of Schubert's operas, not his piano music.  Whatever one might say about Schnabel, he certainly cannot be accused of any lack of "dramatic pacing".  And as a great admirer of Schubert's piano sonatas, most of them to me are superb examples of "dramatic pacing", let alone the incredible profundity of the music itself.  We obviously agree there.

But opera was simply not Schubert's calling.  They're never produced in any of the major opera houses, yet his other large scale works -sonatas, chamber music, symphonies, even masses- are encountered all the time, as you know.  (The masses are an odd case: Schubert tends to set the liturgy in a very generalized fashion, yet the music is often so terrific, one cares not to nitpick.)

I just don't think it a coincidence that this one area of Schubert's music is completely and unapologetically ignored.  Even the provincial opera houses of Germany and Austria (which mount a lot works seldom seen elsewhere) bypass those operas. 

[franzliszt2]

Actually Horowitz, Ashkenazy, Barenboim, Brendel, Rubinstein, Gilels, Grimaud, Pollini, Kempff, Arrau, Paderewski, Gulda, Pletnev, Luganksy, Backhaus, and Schnabel have all recorded the Moonlight Sonata... I doubt they never played it in public.
That's quite a self-congratulatory statement there by Plato.

erm....they don't exactly play it a lot do they? Which was my point...you don't see a concert programme and go "oh, theres that moonlight sonata again" do you? I have only seen it in the complete sonta cycles.

[dnephi]

Adam- how did the Henselt Concerto go? I remember you working on it.

[mikey6]

erm....they don't exactly play it a lot do they? Which was my point...you don't see a concert programme and go "oh, theres that moonlight sonata again" do you? I have only seen it in the complete sonta cycles.

I've seen it live 2 or 3 times with mixed repertoire recital. 

[argerichfan]

Adam- how did the Henselt Concerto go? I remember you working on it.

I'm curious too.  I've never met anyone -personally or cyber- who has worked on the Henselt...

[franzliszt2]

It went well, but I didn't finish it off properly...I had other things to learn, so had to drop it. It's a great piece, but you don't get asked to play it very often, so it is not really a great piece to spend a lot of time on if you are trying to establish a career! It's like learning a piece by Chopin and Liszt at the same time lol. Very good music! Hopefully I will get a chance to play it with orchestra some time!

[thracozaag]

Sergei Bortkiewicz--he definitely deserves a revival; audiences have gone crazy over his music every time I've programmed it, without fail.

[michel dvorsky]

Well m d, I'm confused by your response.  I was speaking of Schubert's operas, not his piano music.  Whatever one might say about Schnabel, he certainly cannot be accused of any lack of "dramatic pacing".  And as a great admirer of Schubert's piano sonatas, most of them to me are superb examples of "dramatic pacing", let alone the incredible profundity of the music itself.  We obviously agree there.

But opera was simply not Schubert's calling.  They're never produced in any of the major opera houses, yet his other large scale works -sonatas, chamber music, symphonies, even masses- are encountered all the time, as you know.  (The masses are an odd case: Schubert tends to set the liturgy in a very generalized fashion, yet the music is often so terrific, one cares not to nitpick.)

I just don't think it a coincidence that this one area of Schubert's music is completely and unapologetically ignored.  Even the provincial opera houses of Germany and Austria (which mount a lot works seldom seen elsewhere) bypass those operas. 

Ohhh...operas!!! OK, sorry... I actually agree there.  I thought you were saying his sonatas didn't have dramatic pacing...heh. 

[communist]

well i mean to unmusical audiences because most people know the theme to the morning mood, in the hall off the mountain king and the nucracker, but they dont know who wrote them ( but i couldn't  of any better ones at the time )

[zp3929]

Well, yes. Scharwenka is very much overlooked, so rarely performed, and has perhaps the most evasive sheet music on the planet.

where may i find recordings of this composer? also, what pieces would you suggest i look at

Zac

[akonow]

where may i find recordings of this composer? also, what pieces would you suggest i look at

Zac

Seta Tanyel has recorded the majority of Scharwenka's works. The solo piano works are divided up into 4 volumes and she's recorded a few piano concertos and chamber works of his too. I believe the music is available from Amazon, iTunes, and sometimes eBay.

I wouldn't know what to suggest to you since I don't know what your abilities are... Most of his work is in the early advanced catergory though, I would say. He has pieces for children (Album for the Young) which are probably his easiest works. The Polish dances are all fantastic too. Take a look on imslp.

Have fun! I hope you will come to love Scharwenka half as much as I do!

[healdie]

I've not seen or heard the Shostakovich preludes and fugues played that often when people ask me if i can play the bachs ones i will often throw in a shostakovich one for good mesure.

and the Prokofiev piano concertos seem to be very underplayed

but it is completly dependant every one knows certain pieces by certain composers every one knows Beethovens fifth the nutcraker etc, but we as pianists listen to the piano works of Tchaikovsky etc, that don't get played to non pianists
 i bet if we posted this topic on a violin forum we would get a completly different list of composers who wrote for solo violin

[loonbohol]

I Think this is my list of the eight most Underrated composers.

1.)Igor Stravinsky- Composed beautiful music but rarely played.

2.)Ryuichi Sakamato-Japanese composer who makes beautiful music but rarely played.

3.)Lucrecia Kasilag- over (+200) compositions but rarely to be found in the internet.

4.)Bela Bartok- Hardly even heard.

5.)John Cage- seems that Nobody wants to play his compositions at all.

6-7-8.)ME,MYSELF & I -I am the most underplayed composer.

[tanman]

bortkeiwicz, scriabin, medtner, alkan, ravel

[smiggy]

Yeah I would go for Liszt. I have not heard of some of the other composers listed in this thread so I will certainly look them up
But Liszt is def. one of my fav. composers!

[burstroman]

Stephen Heller, Lyapunov, Wallingford Riegger, Carlos Chavez?

[akonow]

Carlos Chavez?

Mmm... from what I've heard thus far his music is too overdramatic for me. It's like listening to a movie score.

[birba]

Nothing to do with anything, BUT, what does "lol" mean?

[communist]

Nothing to do with anything, BUT, what does "lol" mean?

laugh out loud

[healdie]

Brahms

Not really i saw a performance of his Violin Concerto just last last night to a packed auditorium some of his piano works are certanly underplayed and i would say under apreciated

[alpacinator1]

That one.

[webern78]

That`s our failure as interpreters, not Schubert`s as composer.

No, i think he's right. Great composers have their short comings too you know.

[freddychopin]

All pieces of Balakirev. Most people only know Islamey. When you've heard Balakirev's piano transcriptions of Glinka's opera's you understand that he's a phenomenon. Too bad he made only few pieces in his long life.

[weissenberg2]

I agree with Balakirev, his first piano sonata is very good.

Lyapunov had some great stuff as did Napravnik Handel's keyboard music deserves more recognition (the eight great suites are as good as any Bach suuites)

[anne126]

Buxtehude
Purcell
Ralph Vaughan Williams
Sweelinck
Gibbons
Bruckner is extremely popular, but rarely heard I think... People still believe composers like Beethoven composed the best symphonies.
Hugo Wolf
Byrd

I don't know how often these composers are heard, I don't listen to the radio.
There are many Renaissance composers that are never heard... I suppose that most people don't believe in music before 1600.

And does anyone remember the name of the baroque composer that used an ornament above almost every note?

[aslanov]

Composers: Glazunov, Liapunov, Litolff, Medtner, Moszkowski, Scharwenka, Thalberg, Alkan, Godowsky

Pieces: Rhapsody on Ukrainian Theme (liapunov), Concerte Sympthonique #4,5 (litolff), 1-3 Piano Concerto's and Sonata's (Medtner), Piano Concerto (Mozskowski), Piano Concerto #4 (Scharwenka), Piano Concerto (Thalberg), Concert Etudes and Piano Concerti (Alkan), Alt Wien (Godowsky)

[indutrial]

With the exception of Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich, I'd agree that most Russian and East European composers from the twentieth century are relatively underplayed. It would certainly be nice to hear more people playing works by Szymanowski, Serocki, or Roslavets, for example. More Feinberg or Skalkottas wouldn't hurt either. Barely anybody has even heard of Marcel Mihalovici, an excellent Romanian composer whose work seems doomed to extinction. Even the better part of the modern audience seems content to only have room for only one Romanian on their plate (Enescu). Alexandre Tansman's piano output was huge, including five sonatas and countless etudes and mazurkas, all of which is exciting to listen to and reasonably daunting to perform. This isn't to say that West European composers are all given their due. Composers like Milhaud (France/US) and Absil (Belgium) have hundreds of worthy works to their credit, but only a fraction of it ever makes it to recitals. Milhaud is known by most for nothing more than the jazzy Scaramouche, which the composer himself didn't even care much for. Not many seem to bother even listening to his five piano concertos and numerous works for solo piano, most of which have only been recorded once. Denmark's Niels Viggo Bentzon composed 13 books of preludes and fugues, over 20 piano sonatas, and at least half-a-dozen concertos, none of which ever make it into students' repertoires, save for occasional miracles.

In my opinion, a great portion of the twentieth century's music has been culturally f**ked over because (a.) students inevitably develop incurable hard-ons for 19th century music and 20th century versions of 19th century music (like Rachmaninoff or Dohanyi); (b.) never find out about 75% of the twentieth century's musical output because of lousy teachers and worse music history classes; or (c.) wholly misinterpret the idea of modern music via negative associations with high-profile avant-garde figures like Cage and Stockhausen or brainless obsessions/hatreds having to do with garbage composers like Glass. I've always felt that the common music student's understanding of music from 1900-2000 is brutally oversimplified and shot full of holes that the student is often too smug or careless to acknowledge.

[thalbergmad]

In my opinion, a great portion of the twentieth century's music has been culturally f**ked over because (a.) students inevitably develop incurable hard-ons for 19th century music and 20th century versions of 19th century music (like Rachmaninoff or Dohanyi);

Indeed, you do not need viagra when you have Rachmaninoff. It turns men into studs and girls into nymphos.

Thal

[gep]

With the exception of Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich, I'd agree that most Russian and East European composers from the twentieth century are relatively underplayed. It would certainly be nice to hear more people playing works by Szymanowski, Serocki, or Roslavets, for example. More Feinberg or Skalkottas wouldn't hurt either. Barely anybody has even heard of Marcel Mihalovici, an excellent Romanian composer whose work seems doomed to extinction. Even the better part of the modern audience seems content to only have room for only one Romanian on their plate (Enescu). Alexandre Tansman's piano output was huge, including five sonatas and countless etudes and mazurkas, all of which is exciting to listen to and reasonably daunting to perform. This isn't to say that West European composers are all given their due. Composers like Milhaud (France/US) and Absil (Belgium) have hundreds of worthy works to their credit, but only a fraction of it ever makes it to recitals. Milhaud is known by most for nothing more than the jazzy Scaramouche, which the composer himself didn't even care much for. Not many seem to bother even listening to his five piano concertos and numerous works for solo piano, most of which have only been recorded once. Denmark's Niels Viggo Bentzon composed 13 books of preludes and fugues, over 20 piano sonatas, and at least half-a-dozen concertos, none of which ever make it into students' repertoires, save for occasional miracles.

In my opinion, a great portion of the twentieth century's music has been culturally f**ked over because (a.) students inevitably develop incurable hard-ons for 19th century music and 20th century versions of 19th century music (like Rachmaninoff or Dohanyi); (b.) never find out about 75% of the twentieth century's musical output because of lousy teachers and worse music history classes; or (c.) wholly misinterpret the idea of modern music via negative associations with high-profile avant-garde figures like Cage and Stockhausen or brainless obsessions/hatreds having to do with garbage composers like Glass. I've always felt that the common music student's understanding of music from 1900-2000 is brutally oversimplified and shot full of holes that the student is often too smug or careless to acknowledge.

There is much to sympathy with in what you say here, sadly. Happily, there are those (usually small) labels who bring out much beglected but noteworthy music. Also, there are those venues (also usually small) that program such music.
Do you know the (Hungarian) composer László Lajtha? He wrote 8 symphonies that are quite worth hearing, among other things.

[gep]

Indeed, you do not need viagra when you have Rachmaninoff. It turns men into studs and girls into nymphos.

Thal

Now I wonder wether you are a c# minor preludist or a Symphony 2 enduralist...

[indutrial]

Do you know the (Hungarian) composer László Lajtha? He wrote 8 symphonies that are quite worth hearing, among other things.

I have heard of Lajtha, but as yet have not heard any of his works and don't know much about him. Being the chamber music fanboy that I am, his long list of string quartets is of great interest, but I've not yet picked up any discs. A good example of what you mentioned about small labels makes sense when I note that Hungaroton is currently in the process of releasing multiple volumes of Lajtha's quartets, in addition to other recordings of his works.

Hungary is another country that's seen a lot of good composers fall under the radar. Aside from Bartok and Liszt (and maybe Kodaly, Kurtag, and Ligeti), not many are talked about. I've long wanted to see more of Pal Kadosa's works included in programs for piano or string quartet. Kadosa was a teacher to both Kurtag and Ligeti and wrote a number of good works. Other less prominent Hungarian composers who could use more attention are György Kósa, Geza Frid, and Tibor Harsanyi.

[weissenberg2]

forgot to mention the great Dutch composer Carl Reinecke. Some of his chamber stuff is fantastic. and he had some piano music/concerti there are worth listening.

[retrouvailles]

forgot to mention the great Dutch composer Carl Reinecke. Some of his chamber stuff is fantastic. and he had some piano music/concerti there are worth listening.

In my opinion, he has some good music, but a lot of it isn't even good enough to gather dust.

I pretty much agree with what indutrial had to say. I'll also be checking out Lajtha. I just downloaded some of his symphonies and piano works. No string quartets though.