rosh hashana

[pianistimo]

For anyone whom is interested in different cultures and wants to know what Rosh Hashanah is about - it's basically the jewish new year.  I am not jewish - but just interested because the judeo-christian book is the bible and the 'holy days' of the bible are listed in several places as days that israel kept and also Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah) kept. 

The reason i find these holy days appealing is that they have a sense of timelessness.  They look backwards, are in time, and look forwards also.  As it has been explained to me - the jews think that the creation of man was on the day of Rosh Hashanah and also that the  Day of Judgement will occur on that day.  That the month before Rosh Hashanah is a time of looking inwardly and being repentant so that the trumpet blasts of Rosh Hashanah will not be a surprise but something that is looked forward to - having already made peace with Yeshua who paid the price for us.

Now, I know that some Jews do not necessarily take the bible so literally - but if you look in Isaiah and some of the other prophets of the old testament - they also look into the future.  The future beyond our present time.  Yaweh says He will do nothing without first revealing it to his prophets (and they all typically say the same things) - Isa. 42 revealing that Yeshua is God's servant and was sent to us to 'bring forth justice to the NATIONS.' 

What i find interesting in the prophets is that God is not a respecter of persons.  And, His law is pretty much universal in the sense that it will someday be required of all the nations (unlike laws that are instated but not regulated).  Jeremiah 23:16 mentions other prophets that lead people into futility by saying 'you will have peace...calamity will not come upon you.'  But, Rosh Hashanah is about God's judgement on the world for many things. 

verse 19-20 says 'Behold, the storm of the Lord has gone forth in wrath, even a whirling tempest; it will swirl down on the head of the wicked.  The anger of the Lord will not turn back until He has purposed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it....'

Now...i'm not saying that bad weather is a sign the end is upon us.  I'm saying that the end of time as we know it could be a convergence of natural disasters, wars, famine, etc - just as prophecied in Daniel, the other prophets, Matthew, and Revelations.  To be aware of the various holy days - gives an awareness of a 'plan' that Yeshua put into effect at his death and ressurrection. That there would be something BEYOND this life.  Something fantastic.

Here in Isaiah 52:7 says 'how lovely on the mountains (proclaiming a new government or kingdom - of God) are the feet of him who brings good news, who announces peace, and brings good news of happiness, who announces salvation, and says to zion, 'your God reigns! listen!  your watchmen lift up their voices....'

now, at this time in history many 'watchmen' are lifting up their voices by saying that this convergence of 'birth pangs' are the beginning and end of a time of history that excludes God.  What, according to the bible, will be issued in is what Yeshua called 'the Kingdom.'  He is King.  And prince of peace.  So...even when things look bad now - we don't have to be depressed.  It can change in a moment (or twinkling of an eye) at the last TRUMPET.

[db05]

Okay.......? I get the part about the Jewish New Year, but after that, you lost me in part old-testament, part new and part apocalyptic ideas.

I feel like watching Neon Genesis Evangelion all over again. In some way, it made total sense. And it's less scary than reading the book of Revelation or watching cinematic spin-offs like End of Days and The Omen.

Shouldn't the New Year be a time for celebration though? Rebirth. It's not exactly starting from zero, is it? I like to think of the line, "... but every time, I feel like I've stepped forward."

[pianistimo]

Joel mentions that God(Yaweh) will bring all nations to a valley of judgement (variously called valley of Jehosephat and also Valley of Meggiddo).  Joel 3:2 'I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehosephat.  Then I will enter into judgement with them there on behalf of My people and my inheritance, Israel, whom they have scatterred among the nations; and they have divided up My land, they have also cast lots for My people....taken My silver and My gold, brought My precious treasures to your temples...

so it seems that God will again fight for his people israel (firstfruits of many to come) - but also for the world to be free of enslavement to cross-purposes of God's eternal will.  In Joel 2:28 - it mentions at this time 'I will pour out my Spirit on ALL mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophecy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. and even on male and female servants (poor) i will pour out My Spirit in those days. And, I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth - blood, fire, and columns of smoke (not from man's armies now - but God's own army - with angels) - the sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes....

And, it will come about that WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered; for on Mount Zion (all those who are God's) and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, as the Lord has said even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

The judgement of God is first upon the House of God.  He says in Amos 2:4 that the judgement of Judah is because they rejected the law of the Lord, have not kept His statutes; have lied and gone astray after false gods, and walked after the ways of their fathers....'  And, yet - His purpose through the prophets is to get people to repent so that He will relent and change his mind about the degree of the punishment of all nations.  Amos 3:3 says 'If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?  If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it (allowed it)?  Surely, the Lord does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets.

Yeshua was the greatest of the prophets - and also messiah - when he spoke to Israel of the last days in Matthew 24:4-51  vs. 14 'and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.'  Interestingly, Yeshua quotes the OT prophets when he says in vs. 29 'and immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light,a nd the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.  and He will send forth his angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and they will gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.'

Now - i used to wonder 'sky' - rapture?  what?  but, it means - the dead in Christ (Yeshua) will rise first and then those that are left at his coming.  So...to feel that 'swoosh' of instant change.  The bible doesn't say anyone will change to spirit until the 'day of His coming.'  That is why many places say we must patiently wait and that some will be 'hidden.'  Israel was hidden from Pharoah and his armies - so there is no surprise that God can hide his elect.

[db05]

You lost me again. Are you trying to scare/ inspire me into conversion or something?

Earlier today in the sermon we were taught that "to follow" and "to give offerings" are different things. What God wants us to do, "to follow", is something that you do willingly, from the heart. If you follow a command, but your heart is not in it, you simply gave some effort+time which is "to give offerings", and is not appreciated by God (though it would be enough for some people).

I stopped. What was I doing in church anyway, but following my mom's command against my will? Then what I did was worthless. The priest made his point, saying, "Does God want a bunch of robots (to follow Him)? No, He wants people who can be part of His family." I have to admit I am a black sheep of this family.

I do not like to think of God as a powerful "enemy" that is responsible for all these calamities/ crises. I'd rather have Him on our side, sympathizing with our plight.

[pianistimo]

dear db05,

The NT is the simplest one to understand the future - because Yeshua made it really simple with parables.  Many of the parables spoke of a landowner or person that others were responsible to with their talents.  Then, he explains it as a kingdom (this is most forthright) - and that He has prepared a place for us.  Where He went we could not go at the time of his first ressurrection.  But, He went to prepare a place for us and return.  It's really a story like a prince rescuing a fair maiden.  I think that even though many think the biblical stories are just stories - they make sense in a broader way of what is happening right now with current events.

Daniel - the prophet - foresaw many one world governments - and a ressurrection of the last one run by what he called 'the beast power.'  None other than Satan - who fights God at His return.  In revelations - people are told that they will neither be able to buy or sell without putting his name or number on their foreheads or right hand.  I think it is buying into a system of government that is run by Satan.  The symbology will be evident.  It will be satanic.  The symbols will be of the occult.  

To put it plainly, our enemy is Satan who tries to make God look bad.  Like being evil for bringing judgement on evil.  Satan wants evil to exist for eternity.

[db05]

Daniel - the prophet - foresaw many one world governments - and a ressurrection of the last one run by what he called 'the beast power.'  None other than Satan - who fights God at His return.  In revelations - people are told that they will neither be able to buy or sell without putting his name or number on their foreheads or right hand.  I think it is buying into a system of government that is run by Satan.  The symbology will be evident.  It will be satanic.  The symbols will be of the occult.  

Isn't it happening right now? Buying and selling, money having faces, names and numbers on them. Some people are tied thinking they cannot live without money. That money is essential. Money is a big problem for the poor; they need it, yes, but by putting too much importance in it, they become slaves of it. It happens even in middle class. The world economy seems to be in trouble, and there's food crisis, what now? 

Time. We are also slaves of time. How many times have you rushed to go somewhere? Ate fast food despite the ill effects? Skipped meals or sleep (or for the devout, church)? Because "I'm late for whatever." Because "life is too short." I'm not advocating procrastination, but when's the last time you took the time so just appreciate the things He gave you?

[pianistimo]

That's so true!  It's not all about money!  When we die - we can't take any of it.  What is important is doing what we are able - and we're able to do a lot more than we think we can.  Our most important asset is what is in our brains.  I like what you say about not rushing. 

Sorry if this thread sounds scary or preachy or something.  I sometimes feel a compulsion to share what i know (and agreed it is limited) of the gospel because it gives hope that there is a better world coming.  That even the waters that are polluted now - will suddenly start flowing again as fresh.  That God can re-create his creation to be pure and unpolluted.  That children can play in the streets and even the animals will be at peace with humans and visa-versa.

zechariah (another prophet, yes) 14:6 'and it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries (stars) will dwindle.  for it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.  And, it will come about in that day that living waters (fresh waters) will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them towards the eastern sea and half towards the western sea; it will be like this in summer as well as winter...and the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.'

[rc]

The last bit of religion I've been dabbling in was the jewish tradition of mussar, which I understand says that we all have a blend of traits, from birth/family/society/environment, and the idea is to become whole by developing unused traits and weeding out bad traits.  The tradition apparently has a bunch of practical exercises to this end.  In mussar, the battle between good and evil is in the multitude of little choices we make throughout the day.

While I'm reading about it, I've come to a different perspective on the whole 'fear of God' thing.  While they do believe in consequences in the afterlife, it's also described as a fear of the natural consequences of wrongdoing.  For example, even though eating a whole package of hamburger helper tastes delicious, I would resist that temptation out of fear for the consequences (I would lose all energy and my guts would hate me the rest of the day).  Why are these the consequences?  It just is.  That is what could be called God.

[thalbergmad]

How unusual, a religion thread started by pianistimo.

Which of course she once claimed she never did.

Thal

[pianistimo]

I never did in the past.  However, over the past month i had a strange thing happen to me.  Since you ask - i will tell.  I was meditating and praying in the morning whilst doing dishes.  (forget the word 'whilst' temporarily) - anyways - i did not hear literally spoken words - but a thought came into my mind that i cannot claim as my own.  It 'spoke' to me.  It's hard to explain - but it said something along the lines of 'i have a job for you - preach the gospel.'  i answered 'where?'  and it was a rather sudden answer.  'where you have been.  pianostreet.'  it seemed fairly strange to me at the time since i'd been banned for talking too much already.  So...dutifully, i set about thinking how to approach the whole topic.  Rosh Hashana is the gospel message in essence because it proclaims a higher power than the ones on this earth that we are responsible to.  If we 'blow a trumpet' then we may help many people escape somewhat terrible things that may soon happen to this earth and many people - because they will turn and repent.  God always seems to value repentance and the thief on the cross and adulterous woman are two examples that represent mercy as well as judgement.  The OT judgements are not necessarily the ones that are coming now.  The judgements now are more serious.  The level of greed, corruption, and deceit has become such that even God can't tolerate it.  It's like He says 'the days of Noah....' 

I was watching a newscast tonight - and some author was selling a book during the commercial time called '23 days in hell.'  I have no idea if it was about war - or his perception of hell ...but as i hear from soldiers - war IS hell.  if war is hell- what is peace?  heaven?  on earth?  I think so.  Perhaps I do not see everything clearly - but it's like searching through a foggy window for signs of something to unclear the fog.  Wiping the glass is one option - but if the heat is too intense - it fogs up again.  The bible indicates a 1290 days of chaos.  Literally, that would be 3 1/2 years. 

There are other books and other prophecies - but i chose to talk about this one because i feel it has the most relevance.  Past prophecies were fulfilled - so there is a high liklihood that further prophecies will.  Susan

[thalbergmad]

Normal service has been resumed.

I do not know why you do this. We all know you are a fundamentalist end-timer.

For the newer members your posts might be revealing, but have we not been through all of this before?

I think you are a nice lady, but at the same time i also think you are completely demented.

Thal

[pianistimo]

Completely?  All i am saying is that the bible isn't 'soft' - you know - it doesn't hide the truth.  There's a day of reckoning.  But, it doesn't come until things get a bit worse.  So...all i'm saying is that -ok we see it is getting worse.  It's not getting better.  It's depressing.  That craziness that we see is 'normal.'  What if normal is just happy and being peaceful?

isn't there something wrong here - when one day of the year is declared 'international day of peace.'  what if it was every day of the year.  wouldn't that be much better? https://www.worldpeace.org/peaceday

here is an article which explains the dillemma facing the un when it encourages law to encompass all religions including satan worship (wiccans), shamanism, etc which is in opposition to the law of God which commands that we worship one God. 
 alone): https://reformed-theology.org/html/issue11/united_nations.htm

i don't believe a world government will bring the peace that it says it will.  for one thing, man cannot comprehend justice and inevitably sides with factions despite the best laws/rules.  that is because race, gender, and even dna are considered important at the same time as they say 'unimportant.' (otherwise why all the paperwork)?  don't you wish there was NO PAPERWORK.  THat NOBODY cared what race, religion, gender, dna you have - that nobody tried to play 'god' with you excepting the true God who is the Father of all?  The only good/bad that can come of this is enforced peace and a lot of taxation. 

We are heading for a one world government at least by 2010 and who really cares who becomes the next president of the usa.  economies dictate who rules.  watch a lot of new rules and enforcements of 'infractions'  - excepting by those who are fearless (ie russia) and see how 'fair' the system is.  it is basically world rulers with armies.  and those armies are going to be the ones that meet at meggiddo, according to the bible.  the king of the north, the king of the south, and the kings of the east.

[m]

I find it quite surprising and ironic when somebody, who has posted on this very board quite a few antisymetic remarks on numerious ocasions, now has enough guts to come back just to wish Jews "Shana tova v'matoka"  .

Besides that point, I find it quite hypocritical that some deeply brainwashed woman with all her religious crap she fanatically believes, comes here just to wish Rosh Ha'Shana, when thanks to her idol JC the whole Jewish nation was put into exhile for over two thousands years.

At least for this ocasion, please could you have some respect and shut the fu...k up.

Thank you very much for understanding, M

P.S. May I ask you, Pianistimo, what do you think of Sarah Palin?

[db05]

Thanks for the explanation, Ma'am pianistimo. The title is still too misleading; it has little to do with Jewish holidays. And it doesn't help to get people lost in scripture; honestly a big turn-off imo. Worded differently, we might actually get the message. I can't quite decipher the heiroglyphs.

The last bit of religion I've been dabbling in was the jewish tradition of mussar, which I understand says that we all have a blend of traits, from birth/family/society/environment, and the idea is to become whole by developing unused traits and weeding out bad traits.  The tradition apparently has a bunch of practical exercises to this end.  In mussar, the battle between good and evil is in the multitude of little choices we make throughout the day.

While I'm reading about it, I've come to a different perspective on the whole 'fear of God' thing.  While they do believe in consequences in the afterlife, it's also described as a fear of the natural consequences of wrongdoing.  For example, even though eating a whole package of hamburger helper tastes delicious, I would resist that temptation out of fear for the consequences (I would lose all energy and my guts would hate me the rest of the day).  Why are these the consequences?  It just is.  That is what could be called God.

This hits closer to home. Practical application. The battle between good and evil is what we do in everyday life.

i don't believe a world government will bring the peace that it says it will.  for one thing, man cannot comprehend justice and inevitably sides with factions despite the best laws/rules.  that is because race, gender, and even dna are considered important at the same time as they say 'unimportant.' (otherwise why all the paperwork)?  don't you wish there was NO PAPERWORK.  THat NOBODY cared what race, religion, gender, dna you have - that nobody tried to play 'god' with you excepting the true God who is the Father of all?  The only good/bad that can come of this is enforced peace and a lot of taxation. 

We are heading for a one world government at least by 2010 and who really cares who becomes the next president of the usa.  economies dictate who rules.  watch a lot of new rules and enforcements of 'infractions'  - excepting by those who are fearless (ie russia) and see how 'fair' the system is.  it is basically world rulers with armies.  and those armies are going to be the ones that meet at meggiddo, according to the bible.  the king of the north, the king of the south, and the kings of the east.

No paperwork. If we were created all the same, it wouldn't be necessary. But since we have unique qualities, strengths as well as weaknesses it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in human life. We are but human and the world government is a social construct. It can be for better or worse. Of course it won't be perfect. Is a war necessary and/or inevitable in this case? Can't it be a step forward... A world with no borders.

[communist]

I find it quite surprising and ironic when somebody, who has posted on this very board quite a few antisymetic remarks on numerious ocasions, now has enough guts to come back just to wish Jews "Shana tova v'matoka"  .

Besides that point, I find it quite hypocritical that some deeply brainwashed woman with all her religious crap she fanatically believes, comes here just to wish Rosh Ha'Shana, when thanks to her idol JC the whole Jewish nation was put into exhile for over two thousands years.

At least for this ocasion, please could you have some respect and shut the fu...k up.

Thank you very much for understanding, M

P.S. May I ask you, Pianistimo, what do you think of Sarah Palin?

calm down bro 

[communist]

I find it quite surprising and ironic when somebody, who has posted on this very board quite a few antisymetic remarks on numerious ocasions, now has enough guts to come back just to wish Jews "Shana tova v'matoka"  .

Besides that point, I find it quite hypocritical that some deeply brainwashed woman with all her religious crap she fanatically believes, comes here just to wish Rosh Ha'Shana, when thanks to her idol JC the whole Jewish nation was put into exhile for over two thousands years.

At least for this ocasion, please could you have some respect and shut the fu...k up.

Thank you very much for understanding, M

P.S. May I ask you, Pianistimo, what do you think of Sarah Palin?

what could she have possibly said that offended you. does any talk about jews offend you? you know your not the only jew in the world.

jewshbag

[momopi]

We are heading for a one world government at least by 2010 and who really cares who becomes the next president of the usa.  economies dictate who rules.  watch a lot of new rules and enforcements of 'infractions'  - excepting by those who are fearless (ie russia) and see how 'fair' the system is.  it is basically world rulers with armies.  and those armies are going to be the ones that meet at meggiddo, according to the bible.  the king of the north, the king of the south, and the kings of the east.

Huh???

the battle between good and evil is in the multitude of little choices we make throughout the day.

This hits closer to home. Practical application. The battle between good and evil is what we do in everyday life.

Define good and evil.


---------
I think Sartre hits closer to home.
L'enfer, c'est les autres : Hell is other people
Hahahaha 

[thalbergmad]

what could she have possibly said that offended you.

Rather a lot actually, but you need to look back a few months.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Huh???

That is the usual response to one of pianistimos posts.

Thal

[rc]

Define good and evil.

---------
I think Sartre hits closer to home.
L'enfer, c'est les autres : Hell is other people
Hahahaha 

Loaded question, Dictionary.com has about 500 definitions for good, so let's just all pick our favorites   How about instead of evil, using the word bad.  Or maybe a gradiation is easier, it seems clear to me that in any given moment, some choices give a better result than others.

Speaking of other people, I've heard it in mussar and an interview about Christian meditation - how easy it is to lead an upstanding life, if you're alone in a room.  How much harder once you throw other people into the mix.

[m]

Define good and evil.

For what it is worth, IIRC, according to Pianistimo good is JC, and evil is UN.
Take it, or leave it.

Best, M

[momopi]

according to Pianistimo good is JC, and evil is UN.

Mom pianistimo,

There are no truths, only representations. There is no truth, only perception...
(cf Jean Baudrillard and Gustave Flaubert)
The only good and evil you see are the good and evil in your mind...



 
Momopi

[db05]

The only good and evil you see are the good and evil in your mind...

Precisely.
I'd like to add that although it may be difficult, you can change your thoughts.