Extremes of the Keyboard

[bjenkins24]

Lately I've had quite a bit of left shoulder pain while playing.  I understand that there has to be something I'm doing wrong technically. 

I couldn't understand why it is just my left shoulder and not my right until this afternoon, I think I figured it out.  I'm playing a lot of pieces that play on the extreme (high) end of the keyboard (Chopin Scherzo No.3 and Shostakovich Concerto 2).  I think I'm pulling my shoulder over in some way that would cause the pain in that shoulder.

I've read Fink's book and also a book called What every pianist needs to know about the body.  Both books mention playing on the extremes of the keyboard but I still don't quite understand the correct method.

I was taught not to actually move my butt where it is on the bench, so I don't.  I've tried not shifting my weight on the bench at all, which I think causes more pain.  I can shift all my weight to that end of the piano but I'm pretty sure I've read you are not supposed to do it that way either.  I've read that you need to "lead with your head" and "bend from your hip joint" not waist.

I don't quite understand what that means.  I've tried to do something like that to no avail. 

Anyways if anyone has a good knowledge of physiology or has had the same problem I would love any help!  Thanks.

Brian

[pianistimo]

Maybe you're sitting too close to the keyboard?  Scoot back a foot and see what happens.  Can you also rock a little to one side and the other without actually moving from the center of the bench.  I think many pianists take all the weight to one side or the other when playing very high or low.  And, what about leaning backwards as well as forwards?  Guess that maybe just doing less of what you have been and experimenting with something different.  If you lean forward - lean back more or visa-versa.

There are some pianists that actually do move a lot while playing (ie scooting a bit).  It's tricky, isn't it - so that you don't bother your playing.  Suppose it's like neeme jarve, the conductor, who conducts in circles and sometimes moves one shoulder or the other to get across a beat.  As long as you make yourself comfortable in your own way -who can complain if the music isn't affected?

[faulty_damper]

I was taught not to actually move my butt where it is on the bench, so I don't.

Wrong.  Regardless of what you were taught, excluding this valuable body-shifting technique severely limits your mobility.  If you are small in stature, this is even more essential.

I've tried not shifting my weight on the bench at all, which I think causes more pain.  I can shift all my weight to that end of the piano but I'm pretty sure I've read you are not supposed to do it that way either.  I've read that you need to "lead with your head" and "bend from your hip joint" not waist.

I don't quite understand what that means.  I've tried to do something like that to no avail.

Ignore the descriptions in the books.  You will only be confused and focus on bending your hips and not your waist, whatever that actually means.  And then on top of this, you must lead with your head.  I'm confused just sitting in front of the computer.  I can't imagine how much more confused I would be if I were sitting in front of the piano.


Instead, focus on your body.  You'll learn far more from heeding your body than a book.  Here are some of the techniques for extended-range playing I learned as a result of this.  Which ones I use varies depending on necessity.

1. I shift my weight from cheek to cheek.  If I need to play in the treble, I shift the weight onto my right cheek.  I notice that my head tilts to the opposite side to counter-balance.  (If my weight is on my right cheek, my head tilts to the left side.)  I don't purposely tilt - it just happens out of comfort and stability.  My legs may or may not move depending on how balanced I feel.

I may also hunch over when shifting to the right so that I am lower.  This lowers my center of gravity and increases stability.  I notice I use this when quick transitions from the high end to low are necessary.

I don't know if I hunch when shifting to the left side.

Weight-shifting works best on a well-padded bench.  It's less effective on a hard seat and probably increases butt-soreness.

2. I shift my location on the bench.  I place my left foot under the bench to help take the weight off my butt to slide.  Sometimes, I can just push with my left leg to shift location.  I usually don't need to shift more than an inch or two but I imagine that someone much smaller may need to.

3. In cases where I must have maximum stability, parallel alignment, increased height and leverage relative to the keyboard, my butt lifts off almost entirely off the seat and hovers from one side to the other.

I tend to do this in fast, very forceful, double-octave passages that has a wide range to be covered from one side to the other.
________________________________________

None of these are exclusively isolated.  Sometimes, I notice that I must combine them to facilitate playing.

I hope my experiences helps you in creating your own experiences.

[richard black]

I was taught not to actually move my butt where it is on the bench, so I don't.

As faulty_damper says, you should consider moving your butt as simply one more aspect of piano playing. Busoni was a big advocate of sliding along so that your body is always over the part of the keyboard you are addressing - he even had a custom-made bench, long and polished wood so he could slide along it easily. I've sat on it! The only part of you that can't move is you right foot, most of the time.

You might also try sitting lower, which often relieves shoulder pain.

[lostinidlewonder]

You only really have to move if your LH passes your centre going to the right and your rh also moves further to the right, or if your RH passes your centre going to the left and your lh also moves further to the left. Playing becomes uncomfortable if our hands have to cross over too far past our body center to the piano. This effect can be reduced by sitting far enough back from the piano. Usually I tell my students their knees should just be under the piano keys and the arms parallel to the ground.

When we sit at the piano we must sit at the edge of the seat. We shouldn't be sitting lazily completely on our asses If you lift up your feet you should fall forward, if you don't you are sitting too flat at the piano.

When you have to move from your center at the piano the majority of the shift can be done by simply shifting weight to the left or right side of your connection with the edge of the seat. Sometimes however you might have to move, especially if you are a small person. As a child I remember moving where I sat a lot, but as an adult I don't have to move where I am sitting because I can pretty much reach everything comfortably without having to move my seating position. You feel connected to the piano through hands which is connected to your body which is supported by your feet which holds your position at the chair. If I do have to move it is a small shift of weight to the left or right of the seat. We sometimes push ourselves back away from the piano when we have difficult reaches.

As a side note, when my Left Foot is doing nothing it usually is bent and sort of under the chair. For me this feels very balanced. When the LF has to play the pedal then we feel support by our connection to the pedal. But when the LF is not playing we should not keep it straightened out because this feels a little unbalanced. I guess to experiment where to put the foot when it is not being used is important.