Polyrythmic etude

[soderlund]

Is there a good etude in the crossrythms 5 against 6? I am not after mere exercises like the first of Brahms 51 exercises, but perhaps a Scriabin etude or something. Perhaps Szymanowsky, it doesn't really matter which composer, as long as it isn't Czerny-like exercises, because I really don't feel like those right now. Thank you

[nanabush]

I saw a bunch of 3 on 5... but don't know of any 6 on 5 :S

[soderlund]

Yeah, I know several Scriabin pieces with 3 to 5, but it really is 5 to 6 I am looking for 

[retrouvailles]

5 to 6 just gets to the point where when you play both of the lines together (after playing them separately in tempo), they just naturally fall into place, with more ease than, say 3 to 5. This is why there are no 5 to 6 etudes. You see it in music occasionally, but it isn't a problem for most seasoned pianists, even if they haven't seen it. Szymanowski (with an i at the end, not a y) didn't do anything like that more than once as far as I know also. In some of his more "out there" works, you might find some polyrhythms like that, like the Métopes.

[lostinidlewonder]

Scriabin Op 17 no 1 has some 5vs6 but it is a prelude. Etude Op8 no4, op42 no6 has 4v5 which is similar.

[furtwaengler]

What about Petrouchka? Is that too much trouble for a little 5 against 6 work? 

[nanabush]

The 5 on 6 would probably be one of the last things I'd worry about in that haha

[soderlund]

Thanks for the answers, everyone.
I will look into those Scriabin pieces. I also got a tip on Ligeti etudes, but do they contain these kinds of polyrythms? I really don't know those pieces, but it would be nice to check them out.

[dnephi]

Stravinsky OP. 7 and Chopin Posth. are definitely your best bets.

[thracozaag]

Stravinsky OP. 7 and Chopin Posth. are definitely your best bets.

#2 (Stravinsky) is murder; it's why most people avoid playing the complete set.

[pianisten1989]

I know this Brahms exercise, where you play 5 vs 6 :D

[soderlund]

Stravinsky OP. 7 and Chopin Posth. are definitely your best bets.

Chopin posth. what? There are a few posthumous pieces you know I thought through most of Chopin I thought... If you are thinking of Fantasie-Impromptu for some reason, I have played it.

[dnephi]

Chopin posth. what? There are a few posthumous pieces you know I thought through most of Chopin I thought... If you are thinking of Fantasie-Impromptu for some reason, I have played it.

There are only a few posthumous chopin etudes.  Shouldn't be hard to find them.  Given your thread title, I would assume that you were looking for etudes.

[argerichfan]

#2 (Stravinsky) is murder; it's why most people avoid playing the complete set.

But you're not speaking from personal experience?  I played that etude at uni (the only one of the four I studied), and surely if I could manage it, you would never have a problem.

Once the cross-rhythms are sorted out -I put in much hands separate practice- it's great fun.  I'll admit, though, that I did not get it quite up to Béroff's speed.   

[thracozaag]

But you're not speaking from personal experience?  I played that etude at uni (the only one of the four I studied), and surely if I could manage it, you would never have a problem.

Once the cross-rhythms are sorted out -I put in much hands separate practice- it's great fun.  I'll admit, though, that I did not get it quite up to Béroff's speed.   

I played the whole set, #2 was BY FAR the toughest.

[soderlund]

There are only a few posthumous chopin etudes.  Shouldn't be hard to find them.  Given your thread title, I would assume that you were looking for etudes.

Oh, I was a bit confused since I didn't understand what pieces you were talking about. Well, I have played one of those etudes, and checked out the others. Those are good, but they hardly deal with cross-rhythms 5 against 6.

Thanks for the tips anyway, I will check out all the pieces you have talked about.

[jaypiano]

You can also find 5x6 in the Schumann Fantasy (last section); Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 13;
Elliott Carter "Night Fantasies", Jacques Lenot Etude No. 6; Poul Ruders "13 Postludes" (nos. 3 and ; Bruno Ducol "6 Etudes de rythme".
And 6x5 in Mossolov Sonata No. 5; Antheil Sonata No. 4; Poul Ruders "13 Postludes"; Griffes Piano Sonata; Elliott Carter Piano Concerto; Stefan Wolpe "Battle Piece"; Leo Ornstein "Suite des Gnomes"; Morton Feldman "Triadic Memories"; Heinz Holliger "Partita"; Seymour Shifrin "Four Cantos"; Luca Mosca "Rime Arabe".
As you can see, I'm a "collector" of this sort of technique.

[pianisten1989]

Oh, I was a bit confused since I didn't understand what pieces you were talking about. Well, I have played one of those etudes, and checked out the others. Those are good, but they hardly deal with cross-rhythms 5 against 6.

Thanks for the tips anyway, I will check out all the pieces you have talked about.

Yeah?
Or you could do as I say and play the first brahms exercise. It's 5 against 6 And 6 against 5! Isn't that geat?!

(We know each other rl, so don't go all "buhu, He did say no brahms you bastard!!")