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Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin) (Read 24453 times)

Offline chopinmozart7

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Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
« on: September 30, 2008, 03:54:23 PM »
Hello everybody! Ive started on my first etude by Chopin. Etude op 10 no 12.
I have heard it many many times and i decided to try it.
Im wondering: On a scale from 1 to 10, how hard is it? :-\
Is there anything you need to pay attention to in the piece? :P
How fast do you think you could manage to get trough the piece? ::)
Are there any other etudes that you would recomend? ;)

I started to study it 1 day ago and so far ive done 1 and a half page.

If the immortals had written music for all eternity, we would not have remembered their music.

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline nanabush

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 05:18:56 PM »
Unlike [many] other people, these threads keep me amused :D

It's definitely not Chopin's most difficult etude, but not his easiest.  The right hand must sustain a melody over the left hand which has the very technical aspect.  I played this about 2 years ago and had trouble not banging out the right hand due to an over loud left hand.  The left hand must be nimble and is brought out a couple times; just make sure there's a good balance.

It's probably in the middle for Chopin's etudes, so like a 5 I'd say... compared to other etudes from Liszt and Rachmaninoff, it'd be somewhere around a 2 or 3...  other composers etudes have left hand scale passages among many other techniques in single etudes.
Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 08:58:21 PM »
It's one of his easiest etudes (Exept the two slow, and the three "new etudes")
And it's impossible to say How hard it is. The left hand is quite tricky, but since you don't need to streach your fingers in that many places, it's not that hard. uhm... It took me somewhere around a moth to be able to play it in concert.

Oh yeah, it's what I call a "quantity etude", learn the notes, then spam it from begining to the end 5 times in a row with each hand, then the same with both, and you'll learn it quite fast.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 01:31:13 AM »
It took me somewhere around a moth to be able to play it in concert.

What about a butterfly?

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 02:27:54 AM »
Im wondering: On a scale from 1 to 10, how hard is it? :-\
On a scale to 1 to 10 is it 1 to 10. Compare it to your entire memorized repertoire, if it is the hardest piece it is a 10 it is the hardest thing you have ever attempted to learn so it's a 10.

Is there anything you need to pay attention to in the piece? :P
Fingering, musical expression, technique seem always constants in everything you play.

How fast do you think you could manage to get trough the piece? ::)
A few minutes.

Are there any other etudes that you would recomend? ;)
yes

I started to study it 1 day ago and so far ive done 1 and a half page.
That's pretty good but what do you mean by done? Mastered? Sight read? Memorized? Stumbled through?

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline shinerl

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 03:53:58 AM »
wow it is hard.

I surrendered playing it
God made the world and the rest was made in China.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 01:54:07 PM »
wow it is hard.

I surrendered playing it

..

Offline dnephi

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 02:31:51 PM »
..
Keep in mind that it IS hard for people who aren't pianists. 

For the rest of us, it's quite a bit of a joke ;).
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 03:41:34 PM »
What about a butterfly?

I don't get it..?
Do you mean the butterfly etude or what?
I really don't get it...

Offline thierry13

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 04:11:09 PM »
Keep in mind that it IS hard for people who aren't pianists. 

For the rest of us, it's quite a bit of a joke ;).

Lol, of course you can't play it if you aren't pianist. But that applies to many things in life!

Offline thierry13

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 04:13:53 PM »
I don't get it..?
Do you mean the butterfly etude or what?
I really don't get it...

Re-read your quote.

Offline chopinmozart7

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 07:36:59 PM »
On a scale to 1 to 10 is it 1 to 10. Compare it to your entire memorized repertoire, if it is the hardest piece it is a 10 it is the hardest thing you have ever attempted to learn so it's a 10.
Fingering, musical expression, technique seem always constants in everything you play.
A few minutes.
yes
That's pretty good but what do you mean by done? Mastered? Sight read? Memorized? Stumbled through?


i have memorized it
If the immortals had written music for all eternity, we would not have remembered their music.

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 07:42:52 PM »
well, memorizing that etude is not that impressive...

Offline bachapprentice

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #13 on: October 04, 2008, 12:47:15 AM »
Keep in mind that it IS hard for people who aren't pianists. 

For the rest of us, it's quite a bit of a joke ;).
A Chopin Piece easy enough to be a joke.............You must be great LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline tanman

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 03:14:00 AM »
A Chopin Piece easy enough to be a joke.............You must be great LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just wait until you find out about fantasie impromptu.   :P
Remember, imitation is the sincerest form of identity theft.

Offline j.s. bach the 534th

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #15 on: October 04, 2008, 11:14:47 PM »
compared to other Chopin pieces it is a joke

Offline chopinmozart7

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 07:40:34 PM »
Do you need do use the pedal? :P
If the immortals had written music for all eternity, we would not have remembered their music.

Offline cmg

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 08:06:10 PM »
Do you need do use the pedal? :P

You don't need to.  And my teachers advised against it.  If you use it at all, it should be used sparingly.  Flutter pedaling, in passages where the left hand is outlining an arpgeggiated chord without passing tones.  You've got flying 16th notes you've been working on for weeks.  You don't want  them muddied and blurred beyond acoustical recognition by a heavy foot. 
Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

Offline j.s. bach the 534th

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 11:07:35 PM »
I guess I should answer your original post now. ;)

Hello everybody! Ive started on my first etude by Chopin. Etude op 10 no 12.

Why this particular one? It isn't the easiest one

Quote
I have heard it many many times and i decided to try it.

I guess this answers my above question :P

Quote
Im wondering: On a scale from 1 to 10, how hard is it? :-\

It depends on what you are comparing it to. For me, it would be an 11. Compared to other Chopin pieces, a 5.

Quote
Is there anything you need to pay attention to in the piece? :P

probably the notes...

Quote
How fast do you think you could manage to get trough the piece? ::)

at my current skill level, a year...

Quote
Are there any other etudes that you would recomend? ;)

all of them.


Quote
I started to study it 1 day ago and so far ive done 1 and a half page.

yep, you are definitely way better than me. By "done" does that mean mastered and able to play at full tempo?

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #19 on: October 24, 2008, 10:35:41 AM »
Hello everybody! Ive started on my first etude by Chopin. Etude op 10 no 12.
I have heard it many many times and i decided to try it.
A) Im wondering: On a scale from 1 to 10, how hard is it? :-\
B) Is there anything you need to pay attention to in the piece? :P
C) How fast do you think you could manage to get trough the piece? ::)
D) Are there any other etudes that you would recomend? ;)

I started to study it 1 day ago and so far ive done 1 and a half page.



A) 4 2/6 on the scale 1-10
B) look at the sheetmusic, not at your naked sister
C) its called the 'minute waltz' afterall
D) not really

Yeah, sometimes i'm not really serious.
I wrote a general guide about chopin etudes though, maybe you should use pianostreet's searchengine and have a look at it.

good luck,

gyzzzmo
1+1=11

Offline chopinmozart7

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #20 on: October 24, 2008, 06:31:26 PM »
I guess I should answer your original post now. ;)

Why this particular one? It isn't the easiest one

I guess this answers my above question :P

It depends on what you are comparing it to. For me, it would be an 11. Compared to other Chopin pieces, a 5.

probably the notes...

at my current skill level, a year...

all of them.


yep, you are definitely way better than me. By "done" does that mean mastered and able to play at full tempo?
thanks,you told me what i needed to know.
If the immortals had written music for all eternity, we would not have remembered their music.

Offline j.s. bach the 534th

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #21 on: October 24, 2008, 08:21:08 PM »
actually, the more I look at it, the more I want to change to 8 out of 10 compared to other Chopin pieces.

Offline healdie

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #22 on: October 24, 2008, 10:02:20 PM »

Are there any other etudes that you would recomend? ;)



The Stravinsky ones (leave chopin well alone)
"Talent is hitting a target no one else can hit, Genius is hitting a target no one else can see"

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Offline marthasmart1431

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 01:30:52 AM »
I've come back to the piano after 45 yrs of no piano, and this is my next assigned piece.  Playing again has brought me so much joy and is the highlight of my day as I battle a rare and incurable cancer and the side effects of treatment.   It's also my first time to read a thread on the PianoStreet message board.  I must say many of you "pianists" are arrogant with your opinions.  The people writing in with these questions are truly looking for some pointers that will help them rather than tear down their self-esteem. 

Offline adam2

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 06:26:06 PM »
I found that 12 in op 10 is a cumulative review of the rest.  You could spend three years studying that one to perfection or you could spend four years studying the entire opus sequentially, learning more technique AND be able to play all of the etudes with confidence and accuracy and artistic sensibility.

If you are assigned that piece, then you must be ready but you could benefit from the etude from that opus that works your weakest aspect of technique.

And absolutely NO pedal throughout the opus.

Opinions are like anuses... Everyone has one, and they all smell like $&@*t.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #25 on: October 16, 2013, 06:48:50 PM »

And absolutely NO pedal throughout the opus.

Opinions are like anuses... Everyone has one, and they all smell like $&@*t.

I agree 100% about no pedal for op. 10.

Regarding your second point... I would have to say that not all opinions can be considered equal on the subject. If someone can play all 24 squeaky-clean with good style, that person's opinion smells much sweeter than that of someone who can barely struggle through through 2 or 3 with a blundering touch.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 08:36:43 PM »
I agree 100% about no pedal for op. 10.

Regarding your second point... I would have to say that not all opinions can be considered equal on the subject. If someone can play all 24 squeaky-clean with good style, that person's opinion smells much sweeter than that of someone who can barely struggle through through 2 or 3 with a blundering touch.

I dont. Although it should be used sparingly, there are definitely places where you can use short pedal. (amateur) people indeed tend to use pedal too much wich makes it blurry, it doesnt mean you shouldnt use it all. Usage of pedal depends on the piano and accoustics anyway.
1+1=11

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #27 on: October 16, 2013, 08:47:44 PM »
Although it should be used sparingly, there are definitely places where you can use short pedal.

Absolutely.... when it comes to performing or recording them. But, in my opinion, the only way to really understand what 'sparingly' means is if you've practiced them without pedal.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #28 on: October 16, 2013, 10:14:05 PM »
And absolutely NO pedal throughout the opus.

Opinions are like anuses... Everyone has one, and they all smell like $&@*t.

Including, apparently Chopin's own.  See pedal marks in this manuscript.

But then, what would he know.  ::)
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline cometear

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #29 on: October 16, 2013, 11:44:43 PM »
But then, what would he know.  ::)

Is it possible for you to be nice? You such a sarcastic person...
Clementi, Piano Sonata in G Minor, No. 3, op. 10
W. A. Mozart, Sonata for Piano Four-Hands in F Major, K. 497
Beethoven, Piano Concerto, No. 2, op. 19

Offline j_menz

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #30 on: October 16, 2013, 11:53:52 PM »
Is it possible for you to be nice?

Possible, just improbable.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #31 on: October 17, 2013, 11:49:54 AM »
Absolutely.... when it comes to performing or recording them. But, in my opinion, the only way to really understand what 'sparingly' means is if you've practiced them without pedal.

You could say that, but also that somebody who doesnt know how to use a pedal properly, shouldnt try to play a chopin etude in the first place ;)
1+1=11

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #32 on: October 17, 2013, 03:56:31 PM »

Offline andrewkoay

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Re: Revolutionary Etude op 10 No 12 (Chopin)
«Reply #33 on: November 02, 2013, 03:32:43 AM »
I agree that the pedal shouldn't be used too much, but it can be used to achieve really beautiful effects in certain places in this etude. I think one just needs to be a bit sensible about it.