Teacher says I can't listen to ANYTHING but classical

[jamie0168]

My new piano professor says that I can never listen to anything besides classical music ever again. He says that since "popular" music lacks the intricasies that art music has, it poisons the minds of musicians. Now, I love my heavy rock and pop music quite a bit. I also love my Chopin, Bach, etc. But does it really "poison" us to listen to it? I can see it from both sides. However, to me, that's like your mom telling you that you can never eat chocolate again. 

[Bob]

Yeah right.  Just tell that teacher whatever they want to hear then.  Yeah, you only listen to classical now.  Sure.

Is it even possible not to hear other styles of music?  You'd have to isolate yourself.

[richard black]

Dumbest thing I ever heard.

[landru]

Yup, that teacher's correct. Because of course Bartok, Dvorak, Schumann, Liszt, Chopin, Beethoven etc. got all their themes out of their own noggin and got nothing out of listening to the popular folk music and rhythms of the day. Yes, I'm being sarcastic...

[alpacinator1]

My new piano professor says that I can never listen to anything besides classical music ever again. He says that since "popular" music lacks the intricasies that art music has, it poisons the minds of musicians. Now, I love my heavy rock and pop music quite a bit. I also love my Chopin, Bach, etc. But does it really "poison" us to listen to it? I can see it from both sides. However, to me, that's like your mom telling you that you can never eat chocolate again. 

Power and progressive metal are just as intricate, if not more so, than most classical music. Tell him he has no idea what he's talking about.

[guendola]

Are you serious? It is hard to imagine that any teacher who charges money for his lessons would say such nonsense. Don't tell him, but I think your teacher is a dogmatic idiot!

By the way, what does your teacher think about composers that use elements from popular music in their art music? Are they poisoned too?

When you listen to both, pop- and art music (and pop-art music), you will notice many differences and that is good!

[lau]

well i don't agree with the teacher. But i really think it could help a pianist, especially a composer who performs in a classical genre. Whenever I try to compose i find myself using modern styles which i find gross, and i barely listen to any nonclassical music.

[Etude]

Get a new teacher.  Now.


Wow.

[franzliszt2]

Well personally I hate pop music....but it seems a littl exreme to say what he did haha.

[thierry13]

I'd say jazz poisons you. That's what you should stop listening to.

[guendola]

Ok, Jazz can be confusing if you analyse it because Jazz and classical music have slightly different ideas about theory.

[mikey6]

Power and progressive metal are just as intricate, if not more so, than most classical music.

Whilst I do like and listen to some 'pop' music, this comment is just ehm...

[db05]

We have a teacher like that, but he made an exception for instrumentals. Some soundtracks are actually very good.

In particular, stay away from songs with lyrics full of negativity, and if you want to improve your hearing/ pitch, stay away from distortion and very loud music. That's it. Not all pop or rock or jazz is bad.

On the other hand, I had a teacher who disliked classical because it lacked feeling. In his own words, many classical players (not necessarily the music itself) "lacked intensity". I think it's because pop musicians either make their own songs, or make the existing songs their own. Whereas for classical, we follow the notes and may differ only up to a certain point. We do not own these pieces.

I got tired of figuring out which teacher to listen to. I just listen to whatever I like to, and whichever it is, appreciate what it has to offer.

[opus10no2]

Popular music is superior in some ways.

[thalbergmad]

I'd say jazz poisons you. That's what you should stop listening to.

HAHA, i thought you might contribute to this thread.

I note you have not mellowed.

Thal

[guendola]

...In particular, stay away from songs with lyrics full of negativity, and if you want to improve your hearing/ pitch, stay away from distortion and very loud music....

Just, why?

As long as people only say "don't do it, because it is bad", there is no way to see if there is any valid idea behind it. I doubt that there are any arguments for this at all, but if there are, please make them public.

[indutrial]

HAHA, i thought you might contribute to this thread.

I note you have not mellowed.

Thal

Note also that his head is still firmly jammed in his own arse. It's like a monthly reminder of how stupid I'm not.

The sad, bleak world that most career music instructors (note, they don't deserve to be called teachers) is just about the last place I would look for info on what or what not to listen to. I work alongside several of these grouchy creatures and often field complaints from concerned parents regarding their stodgy bulls**t. I'm all for people making their own choices about what to listen to when they're on their own, buying CDs, shopping for scores..., but I have no patience whatsoever for anyone thinking it's their right to shut the doors on large portions of popular culture, be it folk, jazz, hiphop, avant-garde music, video game themes, pop music, commercial jingles, or even portions of classical music itself. It's asinine and insufferably smug that anyone might really think that they have the music world as a whole clocked, especially given the fact that most of them are complete unknowns who barely ever perform.

[indutrial]

Power and progressive metal are just as intricate, if not more so, than most classical music. Tell him he has no idea what he's talking about.

It might be just as intricate at points, but save for a very very small handful of acts, I haven't heard many musicians from the metal scene who really know how to push the creative envelope. Some of the players definitely drip with technical mastery, but all the cowtowing to the metal scene's aesthetic limitations and hemmed-in stylistic expectations (mostly a result of the audience being mainly composed of tone-deaf dumbshits) results in a whole lot of MEH.... All of the dress-up, long hair, overweight dudes wearing black, ugly tattoos, etc... doesn't help much either.

[thalbergmad]

My new piano professor says that I can never listen to anything besides classical music ever again.

Buy a gun and shoot him. My teacher told me to listen to everything.

How can you learn from someone who's mind is closed?

Thal

[rc]

Just, why?

As long as people only say "don't do it, because it is bad", there is no way to see if there is any valid idea behind it. I doubt that there are any arguments for this at all, but if there are, please make them public.

One obvious point: very loud music damages hearing.  I've been to so many local shows where I've had to walk around plugging my ears because they were ridiculously loud.  Without plugging my ears, I would eventually get hearing fatigue anyways and everything would sound like mush.  If these bands had less 'rockstar' and more 'musician' they would realize how much they obstruct their own music.

[richard black]

very loud music damages hearing

What, like the opera singers I work with? I've measured 110dB off them in my studio - that's about what you get right up by the speakers at a disco. And about half the players (average age mid-30s) in one orchestra I was connected with had signs of hearing damage too.

Not that I'm denying the hearing-damage potential of non-classical gigs, mind you.

[thalbergmad]

Not that I'm denying the hearing-damage potential of non-classical gigs, mind you.

I was once deafened at a Motorhead Concert and i was actually standing outside.

Thal

[rc]

110db!  They could be heard over top of a motorbike, according to the chart I just googled.

I would like to walk around with a decibelmeter (?) one day and see how some things compare.  Twice at work I've jammed wads of kleenex in my ears as makeshift earplugs.  The worst was when a guy was drilling a big hole into a brick wall in a hallways, damn that was loud, and the guy doing the drilling had no hearing protection!

I also wonder about the effects of my ipod when I'm listening to music over the traffic.

[indutrial]

One obvious point: very loud music damages hearing. 

I was really pissed last week when I went to see a concert at Merkin Hall in honor of Charles Wuorinen's 70th birthday. Saxophonist/composer John Zorn performed a free improv piece as part of the tribute performance and he seemed to be trying his best to cause peoples' heads to explode with some of the loudest high-pitched harmonics I've ever heard. Though I like a lot of his music and respect his enthusiasm, I just can't help but think that he's kind of an arsehole. Charles Wuorinen was turning 70 and there were tons of older folks in the audience who were not expecting Zorn's kind of dadaist sonic terrorism.

Though metal can get pretty insanely loud, the real genre at war with people's aural health is the noise genre...bands like Wolf Eyes, etc... I had the misfortune of seeing one such "noise" show (I'm not sure I heard a damned thing) and it was loud to the point where it's impossible to sense any texture in the sound. On top of that, the music was complete free improv and players were garbage. That's all well and good when you're dealing with musicians who actually understand how to play and coax interesting sounds out of their instruments. What I witnessed just looked and sounded like too much weed and some really bad ideas gone unchecked.

[db05]

Just, why?

As long as people only say "don't do it, because it is bad", there is no way to see if there is any valid idea behind it. I doubt that there are any arguments for this at all, but if there are, please make them public.

Oh.

They say in other countries people are encouraged to wear earplugs in concerts. I read on the newspaper that lately even orchestra members were required to wear them (I believe it was in Britain). Here in my country, it is already so noisy even without going to gigs, so it wouldn't make much difference unless you wear earplugs all the time. Loud music isn't only pop, classical music has its share of fortissimos too. And someone mentioned opera singers. Yeah someone who can sing over an orchestra must be pretty loud.

Not that I believe these music are bad LOL. I do listen to sad, angry and loud music sometimes. But like I said, sometimes it's too noisy outside. THAT'S when I stuff my ears. And you know how you might like a few songs on the radio, while everything else is crap... 

[tanman]

it's almost impossible to not listen to nonclassical music. does your teacher listen ONLY to classical?



me dares you to play some pop at one of your lessons with this teacher. 

[indutrial]

it's almost impossible to not listen to nonclassical music. does your teacher listen ONLY to classical?



me dares you to play some pop at one of your lessons with this teacher. 

You should just screw with him. When you reach a cadenza, you should rip into a few bars of "The Sign" by Ace of Base or "I'm Too Sexy."

[Petter]

I heard from someone that there are scientifical beliefs that loud music has a greater chance of impairing your hearing if you dislike the music. So if you like the music and are having a positive experience it´s less likely your ears would get damaged.

[indutrial]

That's interesting. I could only guess that the stress one undergoes of having to hear something they dislike causes extra tension from within.

Still...excessive volume is completely stupid and very annoying. It only makes sense when it has to do with a dance club or something. I don't see why a progressive metal band needs to crank it to 11 for a bunch of fans who are just going to stand still watching. Very rarely does it actually contribute to the experiences of appreciation or enjoyment when body movement is not really involved in any way.

[Etude]

I also hate it.  It's completely pointless, and it turns the music into an unintelligible mush.
It's the primary reason I don't go to see live bands.

Oh, and another thing I hate:  drummers whose only apparent objective is to beat their instruments to a pulp.

[celebration1]

I had a great professor once who told me that there is something good in all music, and that you should listen to all kinds of music and decide what you can appreciate about that piece.  Such as: Rock music has a good bass line etc. 

Juli- https://pianomorning.com

[Petter]

I find it interesting and tormenting with musicans who uses earplugs and then compensates by playing louder and turning up the volume on the amplifiers instead of playing softer without earplugs...

[Etude]

The problem there is that acoustic drums are naturally very loud, when played in the usual way, and so the volume of other instruments must be turned up to be audible against the drum kit.  I personally advocate the use of electric drum kit, for practice purposes.  The volume can be adjusted to whatever one sees fit.

[rc]

Yes, one friends band suffered from a loud drummer.  Even with all the amps cranked the drummer dominated the mix.  It sounded like hell, the vocals were indistinct, who knows what the guitars were doing, people were leaving the bar.  The drummers only interest was showing off, I will grant him that he could play fast but where did the music go?

There ARE ways to dampen the sound of acoustic drums.  I've seen drummers that could control their dynamics in the mix and it did wonders for the bands sound and feel.  I think another part of the problem is how differently drums sound when recorded.  In the studio they can record in different environments, and no matter how hard the drummer wallops they can turn the fader down in the mix.  Live - I wish more would listen

[bachapprentice]

If you want to learn classical it's wise to listen to a lot of it but to much and you might get tired of it. If you want to be a composer listen to everything you can.

Classical
Jazz
Rock
New Age
Progressive Rock
and so on.

Don't limit your self.

[etcetra]

You should ask him what he means by classical.. While stravinsky might be acceptable, he might not find Cage, or Xanaxis as acceptable as  classical music. I hope that you change your teacher ASAP,  it's horrible to live with that kind of prejudice, and its even worse to become like that yourself.

[tanman]

You should ask him what he means by classical.. While stravinsky might be acceptable, he might not find Cage, or Xanaxis as acceptable as  classical music.

or perhaps gershwin also...

[pianochick93]

Tell him that by listening to pop music you will appreciate classical more.

[thierry13]

Tell him that by listening to pop music you will appreciate classical more.

It's kinda the opposite.

[healdie]

does this but many pop musicians are classicaly trained and surely only listening to classical music is rejecting modern times? Waht if Beethoven and Wagner said "i'm not going to take any influences from around i am only going to play what has already been done"

sounds like a bad teacher to me my teacher all tell to listen to as much music as possible, I was in a car the other day and the other people where playing some dance music very loud now i could f rejected it but i analysed it litend and tried to pick out the cross rhythms and syncopated patterns

so there is plenty to learn from popular music

Does he realize that many new classical works include synthesizers and other electric pop instruments?

[alpacinator1]

Whilst I do like and listen to some 'pop' music, this comment is just ehm...

Progressive metal has absolutely nothing to do with pop music, and you are making assumptions. Your comment is just as ignorant as the starter's piano teacher.

[j.s. bach the 534th]

Get a new teacher.  Now.


Wow.

*clap clap*

[thierry13]

Progressive metal has absolutely nothing to do with pop music, and you are making assumptions. Your comment is just as ignorant as the starter's piano teacher.

We all know that. The fact is that even if progressive metalists try to explore new musical possibilities, those musicians are far from having the deep understanding that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, etc. had of music. So no, his comment was not ignorant. And no, I'm not talking about something I don't know, I have some good friends who listen almost solely to metal (all types), and listened to quite a bit of it therefore. As for the starter's teacher, well I would not say he is ignorant, he simply has a strong love for superior music making, but sometimes there are things you can enjoy that are not classical pieces. I myself listen almost only to classical, but I enjoy some music that has nothing to do with it also (not much, but still).

[electrodoc]

Some teachers have been giving this advice since before I can remember (which is now more years than I care to think about). In the 1950's I can recall my teachers at school suggesting that rock and roll was rubbish and that we would be advised not to listen to it. (Bill Haley and the Comets; Tommy Steele; Skiffle with Lonnie Donnegan, etc.)

When my mother was at school in the 1930's her teachers decried the crooners of her time. This is nothing new! It is an age thing. We grew up with different popular culture. When you reach your senior years you will probably not understand the youth culture of that time.

Let us be charitable to your music teacher. Either he simply does not like or understand pop music of today or he wishes to guide you to the high culture of earlier times. I would like to think that his motives are well intentioned but you are old enough and wise enough to make your own judgement. I suggest that you are tactful and nod your head wisely without further discussion. (Pointless to get into argument with someone who is so biased that they do not want to know.) Then go and make your own choices.

Best of luck with this teacher - judge him on his ability to teach you to play well, not on his prejudice.

[Petter]

Some teachers have been giving this advice since before I can remember (which is now more years than I care to think about). In the 1950's I can recall my teachers at school suggesting that rock and roll was rubbish and that we would be advised not to listen to it. (Bill Haley and the Comets; Tommy Steele; Skiffle with Lonnie Donnegan, etc.)

And now it´s rap music, the argument goes as far back as ancient greece 

[alpacinator1]

We all know that. The fact is that even if progressive metalists try to explore new musical possibilities, those musicians are far from having the deep understanding that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, etc. had of music. So no, his comment was not ignorant. And no, I'm not talking about something I don't know, I have some good friends who listen almost solely to metal (all types), and listened to quite a bit of it therefore. As for the starter's teacher, well I would not say he is ignorant, he simply has a strong love for superior music making, but sometimes there are things you can enjoy that are not classical pieces. I myself listen almost only to classical, but I enjoy some music that has nothing to do with it also (not much, but still).

I agree with that. All I'm saying is that progressive metal isn't pop (far from it!) and that although the musicians might not have the deep understanding of the great composers, they are still highly talented and make music that is, in my opinion, worth listening to.

[goldentone]

Your teacher simply doesn't have the authority--the temerity he has obviously--to forbid you from listening to everything else except classical.

[db05]

I'd say jazz poisons you. That's what you should stop listening to.

Power and progressive metal are just as intricate, if not more so, than most classical music. Tell him he has no idea what he's talking about.

We all know that. The fact is that even if progressive metalists try to explore new musical possibilities, those musicians are far from having the deep understanding that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, etc. had of music. ...

I agree with that. All I'm saying is that progressive metal isn't pop (far from it!) and that although the musicians might not have the deep understanding of the great composers, they are still highly talented and make music that is, in my opinion, worth listening to.

What's this apparent obsession with music "worth listening to"?? What's up with "intricacy" and "deep understanding of music"? You can't be too sure about some musicians having that, while others don't. It's not a good enough reason to diss an entire genre.

Though I am fascinated with classical harmonies, I am also a sucker for simple melodies and harmonies. And there are lots of interesting rhythms in pop music. There are all sorts of musical gems. And all sorts of listeners. I've had a guitar teacher that hates classical but listens to all sorts of music and plays other instruments, another that plays both jazz and classical (very good in both  ). Piano teachers I've had, both were classically trained but they think so differently! And it is the older one who doesn't discourage pop music... She told me, "He should get with the times." But when you look back, my other teacher also had his cheesy/ mainstream pop days. LOL!

You can have your own personal taste, but why limit people?

[mad_max2024]

Listen to everything and even play anything you can and enjoy.
Do NOT limit yourself because of some stupid teacher.

(Edited to exclude morning grumpiness)

[alpacinator1]

This is why this board needs a rep system.