musicallity

[bach_ko]

here is a silly question..
would you believe if i say musicality could be destroyed?
can a good pianist become very unmusical in a sudden? perhaps its affected by his mood? (depression, sadness..)

[healdie]

yes

I would say so sometimes you can see a truely great player just have a bad day nothing comes through in their performance and it just drones

[m19834]

I think these things can hide from eyes and ears that are not tuned in, but the source of the musicality is actually always present, regardless.

[communist]

Once Horowitz took anti-depressants and you could tell something was up

[m19834]

hmmm ... well, I think that the performer's eyes and ears being not quite tuned in counts, too !  Nonetheless, Horowitz was still Horowitz deep down  .

[minor9th]

I'm a huge fan of Ivo Pogorelich, but he's never been the same since his wife, then his father died. Sure, he's always been a bit eccentric but somehow it still served the music. Lately, however he's becoming almost perverse with his glacial tempos and bizarre accents/phrasings. I hope he gets over whatever is wrong with him. (I assume he's not merely bored and is simply toying with the music...)

[m]

here is a silly question..
would you believe if i say musicality could be destroyed?
can a good pianist become very unmusical in a sudden? perhaps its affected by his mood? (depression, sadness..)

As they say, there are no silly quiestions, there are only silly answers...
Yes, not only  good pianists, but even GREATESTS can be quite unmusical. A good example is Richter, when all of the sudden he would start pounding like mad, or just won't find that special "click" with the piece. Of course, it does not take even a bit from his genius.

Best, M

[db05]

I don't think so. You can't help but be musical. Remember that a pianist may not play as we expect him to, since we might not be even thinking of the same interpretation. As a result, we might hate his music, but it IS music to his ears. Music is in the ear of the beholder, right?

Or he might not even be thinking of the piece, but "what's for dinner? hmmm..." and yet we like the music that's coming out. You never know what's in an artist's mind, but something is in there for sure.

I don't understand how one can "serve the music" since "the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath"! That is if we deny our individual voice to even the greatest composers, I think we are diminishing ourselves.

I do understand finding that special "click" with a piece, it feels sooooooo good when you find that connection. (I call it inspiration.) And yet I know a lot of people who can play pieces without that connection, and still play well. At least in my opinion. And unless you really know these people, you can't tell the difference between an inspired and uninspired performer.

[m]

As a result, we might hate his music, but it IS music to his ears. Music is in the ear of the beholder, right?

So following your logic and considering that to MOST of the people whatever they do it IS music to their ears, we can safely say that everybody is musical, right?

Best, M

[rachfan]

Or perhaps the musicality is in the eye of the listener?

[db05]

So following your logic and considering that to MOST of the people whatever they do it IS music to their ears, we can safely say that everybody is musical, right?

Best, M

Of course.

[Kassaa]

Of course.

Quite noble thoughts but it's ,to simply put it, bollocks.

[db05]

Quite noble thoughts but it's ,to simply put it, bollocks.

You don't have to agree with me. 

If you're right and I am wrong... How can you be so sure that you are musical?

[keypeg]

I don't know if I am musical.  I do hope that my playing is.  And that doesn't just happen.  You need insight, feeling of the music, knowledge, skill, plan toward it and then execute it, but don't over-plan or over-execute because you don't want the wrong meaning of "execution"  (couldn't resist)

[db05]

I don't know if I am musical.  I do hope that my playing is.  And that doesn't just happen.  You need insight, feeling of the music, knowledge, skill, plan toward it and then execute it, but don't over-plan or over-execute because you don't want the wrong meaning of "execution"  (couldn't resist)

Wouldn't it be better if you knew you WERE musical, and you just have to show it forth? 

LOL about execution.

[keypeg]

I've been told often enough that I am musical, and I can sometimes move people with my playing.  But that is not important at all.  Music is an activity.  The MUSIC must be musical, not the person.  When you play, you are showing off the music.  I don't know what showing your own musicality means, or what having your own musicality showing forth means.  I do sense, however, that this notion is the source of a lot of anxiety.  People worry that they are not musical enough, and what you "are" cannot be changed.  What you "do" can change.

[db05]

I do sense, however, that this notion is the source of a lot of anxiety.  People worry that they are not musical enough, and what you "are" cannot be changed.  What you "do" can change.

What I am saying is that everyone is already musical, therefore there is no need to be anxious about it. I agree with what you say about doing. I don't know about unmusical music, though.  You mean the activity must be musical? Like "everything must groove", something like that?

[javacisnotrecognized]

I don't think so. You can't help but be musical. Remember that a pianist may not play as we expect him to, since we might not be even thinking of the same interpretation. As a result, we might hate his music, but it IS music to his ears. Music is in the ear of the beholder, right?

Or he might not even be thinking of the piece, but "what's for dinner? hmmm..." and yet we like the music that's coming out. You never know what's in an artist's mind, but something is in there for sure.

What an interesting viewpoint! This raises the question: Does playing in a way that you like make it music? I could bash through a few pieces at lightning speed; all the while hitting wrong notes, having no phrasing, articulation, dynamic variation, etc. but still enjoy the cheap adrenaline rush

Or what if I made a recording of something, listened to it a few times, and dismissed it as unmusical. Then I played it for a friend who thought it was the best thing in the world. If what I'm playing is NOT music to my own ears, but is to someone else, is it musical?

[learner of liszt]

I, to throw in my two cents, think it is possible. Cziffra's playing was never the same after his son died.

[goldentone]

I've been told often enough that I am musical, and I can sometimes move people with my playing.  But that is not important at all.  Music is an activity.  The MUSIC must be musical, not the person.  When you play, you are showing off the music.  I don't know what showing your own musicality means, or what having your own musicality showing forth means.  I do sense, however, that this notion is the source of a lot of anxiety.  People worry that they are not musical enough, and what you "are" cannot be changed.  What you "do" can change.

No, the music must first be in you the person for the music to be music to the ears. 

[keypeg]

No, the music must first be in you the person for the music to be music to the ears. 

Yes, the MUSIC must be, as you say. And then when the music pours forth, IT, the music, must be musical.  It is what we produce.  I suspect we think similar things.

What I was trying to respond to is a feeling I sense, where "musicality" is seen as some kind of a magical thing that we either possess or don't possess.  This magical "musicality" causes whatever we play to be wonderful all by itself, and if we don't have "it" then it never will be.  Like talent when used in that way.  But musicality is something that you do with the music and it is an active kind of a thing.