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Topic: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(  (Read 4717 times)

Offline kelly_kelly

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At my studio recital today, I completely freaked out. As I was playing, my legs were shaking so much I could barely hold down the pedal. I thought it would stop as I continued playing, but it just got worse. I lost control of everything - I thought I was going to have to stop mid-piece. I couldn't concentrate on anything I was playing, and just focused on getting offstage as soon as possible. And I have absolutely no idea how it happened. I've never felt anything like it before. This was my first recital after about two years, but I was fairly confident with my pieces, and I never anticipated anything like this. I knew I would be nervous, but I didn't know it would be so debilitating.

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this? Do you have any thoughts about why it happened? Any suggestions on how I can prevent it happening again?
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline nanabush

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 02:10:52 AM
Ugh my ARCT exam in the summer went like this for the list A.

Bach P/F in G major; I was so nervous I played the prelude at mach 2, but it was steady apparently  :-\

The fugue - I've never been so angry.  I could play it perfectly; but I was still shaking so I kept pressing the pedal (whaa?) and messed up every single trill in the piece... I still got a good mark on that piece, but if I wasn't so damn nervous I'd've done better :(

I find after my first piece I'm fine... it's like the test piece lol
Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2

Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 02:33:04 AM
Well, I have had some pretty serious nerves to contend with for sure.  Once, during my audition into University, I got on stage and looked at the piano and it was like looking at some foreign language.  It's as though nothing looked familiar at all and somehow I found my way to start, but as I was playing I suddenly felt like I was somehow sitting in outter space, watching myself playing and it seemed as though I were in a vacuum.  Then, the piano itself, or the keyboard at least, seemed to shrink and it was as though I were playing a toy piano or something.  They keys started to feel like dead trees that have been sitting in the lake for a long time and are completely water-logged.  I was sweating profusely and felt like there were some huge sun/spot light on me and as though everybody's eyes were literally glued ont6 my body.  Of course, I was shaking, too.  I have no idea how I got through at all, but I did, only to end on completely the wrong chord !  Wow. 

Anyway, very recently I *severely* blushed my way through about half an hours worth of a coaching.  I was pretty sure that my entire neck and head were going to catch on fire (maybe they actually did catch on fire ?  :-).  There were plenty of surprises in my playing, too !  I hadn't had that experience for a while !

Something interesting though.  I am actually doing something in my life right now that is challenging me to overcome one of my life's biggest fears (unrelated to music directly).  And, in the process of doing that, I actually am finding that there are particular issues with performing that I may feel I am becoming more equipped to really face.  That's odd a little !  Overcome your fears in one area of your life, and perhaps that spills over into other areas as well.

Anyway, you are not alone by any means !

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 09:27:18 PM
Wow!  My god, you sound like you were flying high on something!  It makes my little concert jitters seem like nothing.  What it comes down to is learning to live with whatever jitters you have.  Even the substantial ones mentioned here.  Has anyone read that book "The game of music", I think.  It's a take-off from "The game of tennis".  Lots of pysch games to play with oneself in attempts to overcome these fears.  But I still think we just have to learn to live with them.  Look at Argerich.  Or Pollini.  Or Horowitz?!?

Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 12:51:58 AM
Wow!  My god, you sound like you were flying high on something!

Not sure what you mean by that  :D


Quote
It makes my little concert jitters seem like nothing.  What it comes down to is learning to live with whatever jitters you have.  Even the substantial ones mentioned here.  Has anyone read that book "The game of music", I think.  It's a take-off from "The game of tennis".  Lots of pysch games to play with oneself in attempts to overcome these fears.  But I still think we just have to learn to live with them.  Look at Argerich.  Or Pollini.  Or Horowitz?!?

Well, to some extent I agree that we have to learn to live with them, but at the same time I don't think we have to accept them as debilitating.  Perhaps you are suggesting that living with them is supposed to help with them *not* being debilitating, but I have always had more success when I actually "overcome" them to a large degree.  At least a particular shade of them.

Offline morningstar

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 01:11:15 AM
You're definitely not alone. I have the same problem but found it was worse when I was presenting a monologue or speech. I remember performing a monologue from Hamlet and I actually just walked out, I was that freaked out. As a general effect though it severely diminishes the quality of any performance I do because I simply shut down to get away from the cause of my fear. In short you will never find me giving a public speech :P

Offline mrba1979

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 10:15:43 PM
In an early lead I think it was a : positive thread about nerves, this subject was well discussed. I a put a post there about my experiences of public performance because at one time I was mortified of playing at a recital or for anyone other than myself.  Since then I have been playing for people in general and at a small art gallery/ cafe on a weekly to bi-weekly basis.  What I have found it is just a matter of playing in front of people continuously.  Also since you mentioned speech and theater it is basically the same thing. If you are nervous and anxious about performing then you need to perform, perform, and perform some more.  The more you put your self out there the less of a deal it will become.  Now I look forward to going out and playing. This new found comfort has also made me better at practicing since I pay more attention to the areas I need to fix, and I feel more confident when I play allowing for greater control over the keyboard.  Not mention I am also good at public speaking for the same reasons.  Theater however I just do not enjoy.

Hope this helps   
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline mrba1979

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 01:01:22 PM
Another technique I remembered which helped was playing in a cold environment.  The shaking though due to hypothermia was similar to being anxious.  On cold mornings (of course this is when I lived in a cold area) I would get up and practice my recital pieces when I was the most uncomfortable.  Though it did not relieve my nerves when playing at my recitals it at least helped me to learn to play through my shaking hands.
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline Petter

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 02:08:06 PM
"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play an accordion, but doesn't." - Al Cohn

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #9 on: November 16, 2008, 02:48:23 PM
Maybe not vodka, but I always down a glass of red wine 15 minutes before going on.

Offline mrba1979

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #10 on: November 16, 2008, 10:55:55 PM
When I was a student my parents always kept the liqueur cabinet locked.
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline morningstar

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 10:09:43 AM
When I was a student my parents always kept the liqueur cabinet locked.
Poor bugger. I always used to sneak a drink before performing-it usually helped somewhat at eisteddfod.

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 02:52:27 PM
eisteddfod.
[/quote]???

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 02:53:45 PM
eisteddfod???

Offline cmg

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 03:17:23 PM
What I have found it is just a matter of playing in front of people continuously.  Also since you mentioned speech and theater it is basically the same thing. If you are nervous and anxious about performing then you need to perform, perform, and perform some more.  The more you put your self out there the less of a deal it will become. 

Hope this helps   

It surely does help and it's the best advice there is . . . aside from being thoroughly prepared.  After that, you have to play and play and play in front of people:  friends, enemies, seniors, kids, boy scouts, girls scouts, cub scouts, brownie scouts, aliens from other planets.  Brits . . . oh, same thing.   ;D
Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

Offline morningstar

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 09:41:03 PM

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 09:46:31 PM
I don't suffer nearly as badly as the original poster, but usually the first piece in my programs tends to be flubbed.  A friend (non-musician) has strongly recommended taking an anti-anxiety pill before the concert.  Has anybody tried this?  Has it dulled creativity or the fire that can be inspired by the music in performance?  Feedback is most appreciated.

Walter Ramsey


Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 10:21:05 PM
Ugh... well, since that particular recital, I had another bad case of nerves for a competition, this time on viola... the room was so big and the judges were so intent, it completely freaked me out. I actually forgot to tune until they reminded me, and didn't tighten my bow (!) so it was shaking for the first piece, which I normally play really well. And in the second piece, the accompanist completely didn't follow me in a few places, which totally threw me as I tried (and failed) to compensate. It didn't help that the accompanist was my piano teacher, thereby augmenting the awkwardness of it all! I was so shaken when I left the room that I couldn't say anything. My piano teacher tapped me on the shoulder and asked if I was okay and I nodded... as soon as I was out of her sight I cried for about half an hour. And I normally don't get nervous when performing viola at all! I think the recital that I described in my original post has freaked me out permanently...

I have concluded that I just suck at life (and music)  :'(
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline xpjamiexd

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #18 on: November 18, 2008, 11:09:15 AM
Well in a sense no no but last week I was playing for my piano teacher and i was physically (and visibly) shaking so much so that I was nearly hitting wrong notes and mis pedalling. One thing I can say though is that if you're playing to a number of people I found it was best to firstly not have the piano facing the audience and also to block anything else out and focus on the keys themselves.

Offline mostlyclassical

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #19 on: November 18, 2008, 02:58:18 PM
Well, I have had some pretty serious nerves to contend with for sure.  Once, during my audition into University, I got on stage and looked at the piano and it was like looking at some foreign language.  It's as though nothing looked familiar at all ...
I've experienced the "foreign piano" syndrome as well. I knew the piece, but just the fact that it was another piano put me off. So I guess it has its merits not to practice at the same piano all the time.

Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #20 on: November 18, 2008, 03:07:05 PM
I've experienced the "foreign piano" syndrome as well. I knew the piece, but just the fact that it was another piano put me off. So I guess it has its merits not to practice at the same piano all the time.

Yes, I agree for sure !  But, that wasn't all there was to it in this particular case.  I had never had an experience quite like that before and I have never had one quite like that again (THANK GOODNESS !), and that was years ago by now.  But, it had been a number of years since I had been on stage as a pianist and it were as though walking up there onto stage completely disoriented me altogether.  It was something like I got transported to another planet ... hee hee.  Maybe I did  :o.

Offline mrba1979

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #21 on: November 18, 2008, 04:15:45 PM
Hmmm.  It definantly sounds like performance anxiety.  Have you tried practicing infront of people?  Also some other suggestion is focus on the imagery of the piece you are playing.  Does not have to be the composers intended imagery.  Just yours.  That was some other advice I have recieved which helped for myself.  Or maybee think of something funny before going on like picturing the piano in its underware.

Just recently I sang in a quartet publicly for the first time.  A half glass of red wine mixed with hot water helped.  Remarkedly felt like happy hour at the bar.  I am sure if you keep at this you will find a way to over come the problem.
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline 00range

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #22 on: November 18, 2008, 11:30:33 PM
You could always try mooning the audience. After that, pretty much any musical errors you make would be ignored.  :o

Offline mingkei

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #23 on: November 21, 2008, 04:40:43 AM
Eating bananas and be very very very very...thoroughly prepared for the piece to be performed are the best help.

Offline kyliec

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #24 on: November 21, 2008, 11:13:08 AM
Hi all,

I have had the same problem as the original poster last week and can completely sympathise. Just a concert with my teacher and 7 other students (mostly little kids playing "Bumbling Bee" and "Lightly Row" and their parents). I completely froze up, shaking, went all red, NUMEROUS mistakes, can barely remember much of how I played, except it was BAD! Of course I can play these near perfectly at home!! So it was pretty much a disaster and I have my grade 8 exams next week. This is despite a self-designed program of graded exposure (making everyone who comes over to my house sit through my exam pieces!)

I have talked to my local doctor who has prescribed a beta blocker. Apparantly quite safe unless asthmatic or low blood pressure. I had a test run today (just playing at home) and my hands seemed quite steadier than usual. From what I understand the beta blockers basically shut off the adrenal system for a couple of hours, so stops anxiety symptoms like the shakes, racing heart etc. I'll give it a go and report back on how I go. I was considering using it like "training wheels" to gradually increase my confidence and reduce anxiety when playing in an audience.

I also experimented with a low dose (~2mg) valium again just at home - seemed to play ok, although I'd be a little concerned it will make me a little sleepy. Worked particularly well for slow, heavier pieces needing smooth control (eg Chopin nocturne).

I'll keep you posted!
Kylie

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #25 on: November 21, 2008, 01:08:19 PM
Beta blockers were big in my time.  The pushers used to hang outside the school...
In effect, they work to keep your hands steady and heart beat slow.  But aren't we sort of skirting the issue?  Face up to those fears and overcome them rationally.  Yeah, right?  I'll still settle for my glass of red wine.

Offline kyliec

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #26 on: November 21, 2008, 09:17:43 PM
I figure they're not giving me any abilities that I don't already have, just switching my adrenaline system off for an hour or 2. Kylie

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #27 on: November 22, 2008, 01:29:44 PM
I would not recommend to regularly drink alcohol before a performance, it can make addicted. Afterwards it's a different thing though ;D. I am very sceptical of betablockers--never used them. I take something homeopathic, which works fine.

Anyway I also have to deal with performance anxiety (in my case it feels more like freezing up from inside so the music can't flow anymore). What helps is that you are 100% convinced that your musical message, and the way you communicate it are 100% good, unique and necessary and are something that deserves to be in the world. Kind of "missionary" state. And of course you need to be also 100% convinced that your preparation has been 100% good.

Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #28 on: November 22, 2008, 01:49:16 PM
Well, I have my (viola) studio recital today.  I'm only playing a short movement of unaccompanied Bach, and I'm going first (as per my request), so hopefully I'll be okay... Wish me luck  :)
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #29 on: November 22, 2008, 02:03:14 PM
Good luck! :)

Offline mostlyclassical

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #30 on: November 22, 2008, 02:10:54 PM
Well, I have my (viola) studio recital today.  I'm only playing a short movement of unaccompanied Bach, and I'm going first (as per my request), so hopefully I'll be okay... Wish me luck  :)
Good luck, very smart to be first!  ;)

Offline mrba1979

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #31 on: November 24, 2008, 02:11:48 AM
I would not recommend to regularly drink alcohol before a performance, it can make addicted. Afterwards it's a different thing though.

Yeah you can drink more!! Honestly if you are drinking before or after wouldn't you run the same risk of addiction.  Anyways a half glass of whine mixed with warm water is not going to do that.  I actually do not drink before piano performances.  It was a suggestion from the choir director.  Supposedly helps the throat before singing.  All say it worked well.

Beta blockers were big in my time.  The pushers used to hang outside the school...

Next on the BBC.  The seedy underbelly of the Piano world...


Look I am sorry but I think it is best to just face your fears.  If you are going to perform publicly then you are going to embarrass yourself and you are going to more than once.  I suffered from terrible anxiety at one time.  To the point where others in this lead have described: freezing, shaking, the works.  I even tried to play for my employers, people whom I am reasonable comfortable with.  They just smiled and meekly said thank you.  However I have been persistent in trying to perform well for people and that requires the same discipline as practice.  You need to play for people often.  I promise it will get easier.  Today I was out performing (this is my fourth Sunday in a row) and while I was playing a complete stranger was standing right behind me following along with the music.  Not to long ago this would have completely shut me down.  Today other than I thought it was a little rude it did not bother me.  It also occurred to me today that I just sat and started playing with hardly a care.

So all you piano beta blocker pusher junkies out there throw down your medications!  You don't need them.  Unless of course you really do need it for your heart.  Its OK then.

Oh! right!  Good luck and best wishes. 
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline tds

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience
Reply #32 on: November 27, 2008, 05:05:44 AM


petter, aint it an empty bottle? tsk tsk lame..

 ;D ;Dhaha
dignity, love and joy.

Offline nick

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #33 on: November 27, 2008, 07:01:46 PM
At my studio recital today, I completely freaked out. As I was playing, my legs were shaking so much I could barely hold down the pedal. I thought it would stop as I continued playing, but it just got worse. I lost control of everything - I thought I was going to have to stop mid-piece. I couldn't concentrate on anything I was playing, and just focused on getting offstage as soon as possible. And I have absolutely no idea how it happened. I've never felt anything like it before. This was my first recital after about two years, but I was fairly confident with my pieces, and I never anticipated anything like this. I knew I would be nervous, but I didn't know it would be so debilitating.

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this? Do you have any thoughts about why it happened? Any suggestions on how I can prevent it happening again?



Sure have Kelly, after not playing in front of anyone for about 2 yrs like you, I played a well known piece in front of my students and my right leg was shakin like a leaf during hurricane Katrina. Never felt it before then like that, but never have felt it since as playing in front of people is a must to not have that happen. Start with 1 person if you need to, and go from there.

nick

Offline nyonyo

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #34 on: November 28, 2008, 03:42:56 AM
At my studio recital today, I completely freaked out. As I was playing, my legs were shaking so much I could barely hold down the pedal. I thought it would stop as I continued playing, but it just got worse. I lost control of everything - I thought I was going to have to stop mid-piece. I couldn't concentrate on anything I was playing, and just focused on getting offstage as soon as possible. And I have absolutely no idea how it happened. I've never felt anything like it before. This was my first recital after about two years, but I was fairly confident with my pieces, and I never anticipated anything like this. I knew I would be nervous, but I didn't know it would be so debilitating.

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this? Do you have any thoughts about why it happened? Any suggestions on how I can prevent it happening again?

It is not unusual. I personally never had a concert prior to my first competition. Both of my legs shook uncontrollably. The next year, I got better, no shakes any more. Later, I started playing for my church. It is a very good practice. Having many opportunities to play in front of people, I lost that enxiety.

In three years, I will be entering Van Cliburn Outstanding Amateur Piano Competition. My last competition was 21 years ago. I know I have to start practicing again to play in front of people. Otherwise, I may shake uncontrollably again....

Offline dashing_dutchman

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #35 on: November 28, 2008, 10:44:02 PM
I may be willing to try a beta-blocker, or even a drink or valium, but I lean more toward thorough preparatrion.  I like the one person who practiced while stone cold so that jittery hands would not be a new experience on stage.  Thank you for that suggestion!

During my better years of performing concerts I used all the tricks in the bag that I picked up from various mentors.  Practicing in a pitch black room (i.e. isolating motor memory), on silent keyboards, left hand memorized by itself, copying scores and cutting them to pieces and making a pile on the left side of the piano, starting on the measure I pull out from memory, then redoing the pile starting on the measure BEFORE the one I pull, a great deal of mental practice (hours of it!) - if you cannot play through all your pieces slowly mentally while feeling and hearing every single note, finger, and key, slowed down if need be, then you do not know all of it thoroughly!, and last but not lears schedule enough try-outs and run-up performances before more important ones.  Also perform all pieces on as many different instruments as you can and in as many different sounding rooms and halls accoustically as you can under all kinds of lighting conditions, including no lights.  Also do recording sessions before an important recital.  Knowing that you already have it all well done on CD will take some pressure off the live recital that follows.  Then record the live recital.  If you do it in that order, most likely the live recital will be the best recording after all.  And indeed play a lot for people and keep doing so on a regular basis.  Performing will become routine, and that is what you need.

I once saw an organist get a relatively low grade due to sheer poor preparation.  He scheduled a Bach Triosonata at the end of the program (not wise mentally...) and did not do any tryouts or smaller concerts before his conservatory final exam.  He was worth a high grade qua talent, but got stuck with a lower grade, very unfortunate.

If in spite of preparations as thorough as possible as described above you still end up with anxiety (if I am not mistaken Arrau, doubtless among others, was known for serious performance anxiety) one last thought you must always keep in the back of your mind in the end: do not ever stop playing, keep going, jump to practice points, or improvise, but do not ever give up during a live performance, audition, or competition.  Always go all the way through it and take that bow.  Then later go to the recording with the score and fix the weak spots in your momory.  Also take some moments for quieting yourself down, slowing down breathing, and focusing concentration, before you start playing.  One great teacher I had also suggested not programming fragile things at the beginning of a recital.  A good solid fortissimo opening makes it a lot easier to get used to the piano, the accoustics of the hall, the audience, and buys you time to get settled in on the stage before you do the more intricate and other difficult things.

Offline dashing_dutchman

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #36 on: November 28, 2008, 11:03:16 PM
Some more thoughts partly based one what I got from an entire jury once:

You should really enjoy the music and the performance, and especially the instrument you play on.  Put yourself in the shoes of even a professional audience or jury.  They are musicians and enjoy hearing beautiful music.  Your audience are all human beings with emotions, needs, and they appreciate what you have to offer.  Focus away from the nerves, and focus on making music, nuances, and on what beautiful character the instrument you are playing on you could try to bring out as much as possible.  The performance may not be so much about you, but about you along with likely a very expensive instrument that is temporarily entrusted to your good hands, bringing the composer's work to life.  It's about inspiring and moving people.  Nerves only get in the way of all that.  It is certainly understandable, but try to keep the bigger picture of things in mind.  You learned to play the piano because you love music and you enjoy it.  So enjoy it as much as you can!  So many people never get in front of any number of people above perhaps say 6 or so, and it's no sin to enjoy being in the light.  I for one perform best for a full hall, the more people the better, you get so much back from them, even if not everything on the program goes perfectly.  People go to concerts because they want to enjoy it, most of the audience will be looking for your good qualities, and anyone on this forum has those.  A succesful performance is not only winning over nerves, it is at least as much, if not more, about continuously being conscious of what it is you are doing and why, and how you can make it as well sounding as possible.  Of course preparation is still a prerequisite to get to that level, but once you have been there, it is very addictive to keep going for more of it!

Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #37 on: November 28, 2008, 11:17:58 PM
Some helpful stuff, dutchman.

It dawned on me while reading your first post that, to be in the frame of mind of being willing to do that kind of preparation for a performance, a person's entire lifestyle and frame of mind has to be actually operating pretty cleanly and at a particular level, on pretty much a daily basis.  The kind of focus and dedication that it takes to prepare something that thoroughly, seems to naturally omit a lot of other things (distractions), at least that is what it would mean/means to my own life. 

Offline kyliec

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #38 on: November 29, 2008, 12:37:39 AM
Hi Dutchman, I particularly appreciate some of the tricks of the trade you've shared with us, such as chopping up bits of the score and starting at that bar, silent keyboard practice etc - and NOT STOPPING!

I'm aiming to memorise one of my next lot of exam pieces (assuming I pass my exam tomorrow :) ), so these will be some of the things I will incorporate into my practice,

thanks, Kylie

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #39 on: November 29, 2008, 04:17:49 AM
I think that the idea of sufficient preparation as an antidote to performance anxiety, is unsatisfying.  We're told that Richter practiced 13 hours a day, but what other pianist who was so great, could crash and burn so spectacularly?  Charles Rosen tells the story of hearing Rudolf Serkin twice in a short time span, in the same piece (I think it was op.106).  Once was miraculous, and the other sounded like an amateur fighting his way through.  Could we honestly say, Serkin didn't practice enough, didn't analyze enough, didn't memorize it thoroughly?  It leaves too many questions unanswered.

As much as possible we have to feel secure with our memory: physical, analytical, and aural.  That however is not the answer to stage fright, that is only a prerequisite for performing.

Walter Ramsey


Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #40 on: November 29, 2008, 05:33:55 AM
As much as possible we have to feel secure with our memory: physical, analytical, and aural.  That however is not the answer to stage fright, that is only a prerequisite for performing.

Walter Ramsey

I guess I would agree with you here, though there is something psychologically helpful, I think, in feeling like you have done everything possible to prepare for the performance.  To know that you can play through the entire piece, the entire program, from start to finish without a major memory lapse, that does give a particular kind of confidence that you don't have without that in place.  So, maybe it is just requisite for performing, but it is not necessarily always common practice.  I don't know if I have *ever* gone into a one-time performance not feeling somehow a little under prepared though and having some form of curiousity about how the evening would actually turn out.  Even when I did my Opera run last year, it was absolutely some sort of circus act during our first week.  By the time the show was really going, I wasn't nervous anymore unless the anty was raised suddenly (sponsors watching, a more serious venue, tv cameras, etc).  As soon as something like that changed, all the nerves would try to flood in, even though we had done the show 50 or more times by then. 

I will tell you something for sure.  What has seemed to help me more than trying to tell myself that "nothing horrible is going to happen on stage since I am so well prepared," is actually knowing deeply within myself that whatever mess I may get myself into, I can get myself out of gracefully (which for me has largely meant improvising).  When it comes to actually stepping out onto stage, feeling like I will be able to get myself out of whatever trouble I may find out there on stage has always made me feel more ready to take on a performance than anything else.

Other than preparedness or not though, there is obviously some kind of personal matter about performing that creates the nerves in the first place.  I think it very much boils down to being afraid of failing and/or being afraid of succeeding.  There are probably hundreds of stems from those two basic ideas, but I think those are the bottom line ideas that may get into a person's way.  And, we come up to some wall within ourselves, where we want to protect ourselves from either of those things (or just a fear of the unknown), and we are either going to be willing to walk through it, crawl over, dig ourselves under it, break it down, or we are going to just back away from it in defeat.

Wow, I find I am suddenly wanting to launch on to a whole huge thing, but I guess for now I will just resist the urge and be off the topic, and maybe off to sleep, for the time.

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #41 on: November 30, 2008, 12:24:25 AM
I guess I would agree with you here, though there is something psychologically helpful, I think, in feeling like you have done everything possible to prepare for the performance.  To know that you can play through the entire piece, the entire program, from start to finish without a major memory lapse, that does give a particular kind of confidence that you don't have without that in place.  So, maybe it is just requisite for performing, but it is not necessarily always common practice. 

I think especially with examples like the Serkin one I gave, the issue is confounded.  Rosen heard Serkin play a brilliant op.106, that surely he could play through before the program (probably for years before the program) without any memory lapses or mistakes.  But nonetheless, a few days later, the same piece was a disaster.  The issue of practicing enough is just not enough to explain these kind of instances.  I've also heard anecdotes of recital disasters of Curzon, Haskil, Richter, and other pianists, that could never be accused of under-preparing, or resting on their laurels.

There's something else at play, which I suspect cannot be answered in general prescriptions.  It's a psychological element which is individual and probably different for every person.  One piano professor, asked to turn pages for Richter while this person was still a student in Moscow, relayed to me the story: Richter started the program with slow works of late Liszt (the only title I remember for sure is Ave Maria).  He bungled them tremendously, seeming unable to find his place on the keyboard.  Backstage after this first set, the professor described to me Richter burrowing his chin into his chest, staring at the floor, and pacing back and forth in a way that resembled a bull gathering fury.  Then he snapped out of it, came back onstage and played the Franck Prelude, Chorale & Fugue "like a God." 

It would be presumptuous to suggest, he didn't prepare enough the Liszt pieces.  It was most definitely a psychological block that didn't at all result from his relationship to the specific music being performed, but from his relationship to either the stage (as in a general performance) or the audience.

I realize this meditation is of no use whatsoever for those who are trying to solve performance anxiety problems.  But it is a reminder, that we have to go further than just practicing thoroughly.

Walter Ramsey

Offline m19834

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #42 on: November 30, 2008, 12:53:00 AM
Backstage after this first set, the professor described to me Richter burrowing his chin into his chest, staring at the floor, and pacing back and forth in a way that resembled a bull gathering fury.  Then he snapped out of it, came back onstage and played the Franck Prelude, Chorale & Fugue "like a God."

hee hee ... I like this story :).   

Quote
It would be presumptuous to suggest, he didn't prepare enough the Liszt pieces.  It was most definitely a psychological block that didn't at all result from his relationship to the specific music being performed, but from his relationship to either the stage (as in a general performance) or the audience.

I realize this meditation is of no use whatsoever for those who are trying to solve performance anxiety problems.  But it is a reminder, that we have to go further than just practicing thoroughly.

Walter Ramsey

Well, I certainly wouldn't argue with that, I do think it's important though for many people whom happen to not be Richter, to be reminded that thorough preparation is not to be overlooked.  And, I mean that there may be extra nerves involved that wouldn't necessarily be there if a feeling of under preparadness wasn't there, too.

I am just thinking of some of my school years and the performances I did during that time.  Almost every single time, with the exception of a particular spurt of me playing the same piece each week at studio class, I had to dig very deeply into myself to find the person capable of giving each individual performance.  Sometimes I guess you could say I was a bit of a bull gathering fury, sometimes it was something else.  Definitely I spent a good bit of time trying to harness the intensity that I was feeling.  I guess I am trying to decide if that process were actually helpful or not.  In some ways, it felt like all I had to go on, but it certainly didn't guarantee a spotless performance.  Actually, one time, I gathered *so much* fury and so much of my environment that during my performance I simply just burst straight out of the piece a couple of times, thankfully finding my way back both times, but still ... heh.

In some sense, gathering that kind of intensity is not actually related to nerves, though it can seem to be so.  It's like a switch can be made where in one moment it is about nerves, and then in the next moment it turns into gathering intensity.  And, for me, once I am gathering intensity, well, hee hee, there is just no turning back and it would be a big let down not to go on stage.  I have to say, I am not going to forgo being well-prepared though, just because I may have nerves no matter what. 

Offline dashing_dutchman

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #43 on: November 30, 2008, 06:27:50 PM
Richter messed up the opening chords of the Winterwind because he spent too much time practicing the rest of the piece, which is of course a few hundred times harder.
Not sure about 106.  I didn't know that story.  I agree that thorough preparation is the  prerequisite, but the greater the variety of activities in preparation, including even psychological analysis of whatever it is that causes or caused an issue during a performance, the better the chances for success. Of course one cannot prepare for anything and everything, and yes for that one needs to be able to "go deeper" and have, or have developed, the ability to adapt established processes on the spot.  Not always easy to do.  And there are of course the thoroughly prepared professionals who once they sit down at the piano have this all-feared total blackout where they don't even remember how any of the pieces begin.  I have been fortunate not to ever have had that problem, but I have known professionals who did...    :)

Offline birba

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #44 on: December 01, 2008, 03:53:56 PM
No one would ever believe this, but there was fairly well-known pianist teacher in Italy, Frugoni, who told his students to learn the piece BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I kid you not.  And I actually heard one of his students play the winter wind from the very last note to the opening "e".  Not at the actual speed, mind you, but every single note.  VERY bizarre.  But with all that, I bet you he could have a memory lapse just as well. 

Offline doowlehcc

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Re: Bad Performance Anxiety Experience(s) - Yes, I had another one :(
Reply #45 on: December 03, 2008, 04:19:23 AM
Hi, I used to have very bad performance anxiety too.  legs shaking, can't concentrate, playing the notes without knowing what i was playing.  I read some books on performance anxiety, and experimented over past few years diff techniques.

now I find what works for me is:
- before a real performance, schedule many rehersal performances with friends / family.   sometimes as frequent as twice a week.  and with different people if possible.
- each time after a rehersal performance, recall what went wrong, and try to think of ways to fix it.  (e.g. a difficult passage mess up :  perhaps i need slow practise)
- in general, i find breathing helps with anxiety.  before I play in front of anyone, i take 2 deep breaths CLOSED EYES!  just feel the breath, and how it flows in your body.  When I play the 1st note, I play it while breathing out (just like how a singer will sing out 1st note while letting the breath leaves the body)
- My anxiety is worst when playing a slow piece quietly - I find if I breathe along with the music - that helps with my anxiety.  I will practise the piece as if I am singing the piece (but actaully playing the notes on piano) - but I will coordinate my breath with the phrasing - as if I am really singing out loud.

well these are just some stuff I have tried, and I still have lots to learn.  I made a very detailed inventory of techiniques  I have tried over past few years to deal with anxiety on my site:

https://www.rickerchoi.com/?p=387

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