Beethoven: Sonata Op. 90

[lmpianist]

Comments on these are welcome, as I'm in the polishing phase at the moment.  I know where the note mistakes are :)

[goldentone]

I think your playing has much to recommend--the musicality is there.  The part that stands out the most in need of attention is at the a tempo, ma tranquillo, though you eventually get it up and running.  Your RH runs are very nice.  This movement is a favorite of mine. Thanks for posting it.

[pianistimo]

Typically people have trouble making the tempo even - but this is actually the opposite.  A little too 'square.'  I'd actually say something about less involvement with dynamics and more to 'tone quality' with much softer grades of dynamics.  More subtle.  You have a really great command at the piano and i think you will and are the right kind of person to play beethoven.  You grasp the idea of where the music is going and you don't hesitate to give it that commanding aspect.  Maybe now - to find the feminine side.  Just a tiny bit.  Also, what was told to me, 'highly respect rests in beethoven.'  They are as important to 'phrase' as the phrases themselves.  Sort of in equal proportions but not square.  Just what seems to be enough pause.  As though you have a dialogue going on with a philosopher and take some pauses to thought.

You really inspire me to want to play this sonata.  I have not played any of the latter sonatas and this will be my first.  I'm printing it out and have two other books (schnabel and verlag) to compare fingerings with.  Schnabel is ok on some things - but sometimes he does not take advantage of the stuff Bach did - slide down the fifth finger from a sharp to a natural with pinky or thumb on sharp to thumb on white note - and it really makes playing much less worrisome and more fun.  Fingering is really a big part of having fun in Beethoven and is what helped me finally learn the Waldstein several years ago.  I had tried all the 'book fingering' but came up with some fingering of my own that made it 'work' in some of the more difficult sections.  Yours sounds like you worked all that out very easily.

Sometimes, for my own inspiration - i'd read something philosophic that kind of makes you think of the dialogue that beethoven might have had.  He often asked questions to himself, i think, and then 'worked it out.'  It's like he's having this huge dinner table conversation with himself.  The part in page two that goes into repeated chords reminds me of his penchant for going for a walk in nature to work things out.  This is fairly even tempoed and i like what you did there.  Maybe just the beginning and ending more 'philosophical.'

[pianovirus]

The op. 90, especially the second movement, is one of my Beethoven favorites. I just listened to the 2nd movement (from computer at work without headphones, so I'm a bit limited in detailed comments). Overall, you play it very nicely!

I think it could be further improved a bit if you would play the melody somewhat more fluidly. I don't mean necessarily faster, but at times it appears a bit static, maybe because you are (slightly) emphasizing the beats and bars. Feel the phrases as large units and de-emphasize the pulse so that you get an even more beautiful melodic flow. I hope you know what I mean. Did you listen to a good recording (e.g. Gilels)?

But in any case, I enjoyed your playing. Thanks for sharing it!

[lmpianist]

Typically people have trouble making the tempo even - but this is actually the opposite.  A little too 'square.'  I'd actually say something about less involvement with dynamics and more to 'tone quality' with much softer grades of dynamics.  More subtle.  You have a really great command at the piano and i think you will and are the right kind of person to play beethoven.  You grasp the idea of where the music is going and you don't hesitate to give it that commanding aspect.  Maybe now - to find the feminine side.  Just a tiny bit.  Also, what was told to me, 'highly respect rests in beethoven.'  They are as important to 'phrase' as the phrases themselves.  Sort of in equal proportions but not square.  Just what seems to be enough pause.  As though you have a dialogue going on with a philosopher and take some pauses to thought.

You really inspire me to want to play this sonata.  I have not played any of the latter sonatas and this will be my first.  I'm printing it out and have two other books (schnabel and verlag) to compare fingerings with.  Schnabel is ok on some things - but sometimes he does not take advantage of the stuff Bach did - slide down the fifth finger from a sharp to a natural with pinky or thumb on sharp to thumb on white note - and it really makes playing much less worrisome and more fun.  Fingering is really a big part of having fun in Beethoven and is what helped me finally learn the Waldstein several years ago.  I had tried all the 'book fingering' but came up with some fingering of my own that made it 'work' in some of the more difficult sections.  Yours sounds like you worked all that out very easily.

Sometimes, for my own inspiration - i'd read something philosophic that kind of makes you think of the dialogue that beethoven might have had.  He often asked questions to himself, i think, and then 'worked it out.'  It's like he's having this huge dinner table conversation with himself.  The part in page two that goes into repeated chords reminds me of his penchant for going for a walk in nature to work things out.  This is fairly even tempoed and i like what you did there.  Maybe just the beginning and ending more 'philosophical.'

Wow.. thank you very much for these words, I think that's the nicest compliment I've ever gotten about my playing   I do feel much more in tune (sorry, pun) with Beethoven musically speaking than with most other composers which is probably why I seem to spend so much time on his music.  This must be about the ninth or tenth sonata of his that I've studied.  There are a few things with this one that I don't quite understand musically.  The very short first movement seems a bit problematic.  How do you take something so brief and make it effective?  I'm still not quite sure how to interpret it.  It also seems much more Romantic to me than I'm used to with Beethoven - this is the "latest" sonata I've learned.  I'm debating whether to actually make it sound more Romantic or stick to my Classical interpretation with steady tempi.  I think however there's a danger of putting too much rubato into this so I may have overcompensated in trying to avoid that.  But this is Beethoven after all.  I've been drilled over and over again by more than one teacher to not Romanticize Beethoven.  Also, this recording (of the first mvt) is about the slowest I've ever played it, so I'm still experimenting a bit with the tempo.  I may even try it a bit slower.

As for the second movement, at first I really did *not like* it which is why I didn't bother finishing the piece until recently, when it started to grow on me.  There's really more to it than meets the eye.  Personally I think it benefits from a more brisk tempo than some of the recordings I've heard.  My phrasing in this does need some more attention I think.  Also the one thing that I've never understood is why Beethoven marks 'a tempo' at the very end... this goes against every instinct I would have... but I respected his wishes and didn't slow down during the last few bars.  Any thoughts on why he does this?  Seems very abrupt. 

Really, the things I'm trying to improve upon with this (which end up being my hit list on "every* beethoven piece I study, sigh) are (a) the voicing, (b) the phrasing, and (c) trimming out some of the pedal (and obeying the rests)... these aren't quite where I want them yet... but they're getting closer.  Unfortunately I'm on a digital piano as you probably noticed so it's a bit more difficult to shape the dynamics, especially in the upper registers (there are a couple spots in the second movement especially where I really feel like kicking the piano when I can't get the sound I'm going for).  Plus, when I first start learning a piece, I have a tendency to flood it with far more pedal than it can/should have.  It then becomes a process to gradually force myself to not pedal in places where I've gotten used to pedaling.  As my last teacher used to say, "don't be afraid of silence."  You can imagine what I go through when I learn Bach... *shudder*

Responding to pianovirus:  No I haven't listened to a good recording.  I've listened to Brendel.  Sorry   Actually Brendull's isn't so bad, it's far better than most of his other Beethoven recordings I think.

As far as fingering goes, with Beethoven, I *never* pay attention to the suggested fingering.  I've found that it just doesn't work for me half the time.  Only if I run into a particularly nasty passage and don't have any ideas will I examine the suggested fingering more closely.  I'm using the Dover (Schenker) edition, btw.

This is a wonderful sonata, unfortunately it's highly underplayed ... probably because it's not loaded with pyrotechnics.  After a first listen it might go unnoticed but for me after repeated listenings it's really become one of my favorites.

Thanks again for the comments!

khurynn

[teresa_b]

Very nice!  I liked the first movement very much--You really do have a feel for Beethoven.  I don't think you need to do much more to make a "statement" here, it's very good!

The second movement I feel needs more work, but it sounds good.  I agree with the idea of more fluidity here and thinking over bars toward phrases and long lines. 

The second mvt is quite repetitive, and thus the challenge is greater to play it without getting monotonous.  I would play it significantly faster (not allegro, but sort of andantino in the faster sense--moving along so it doesn't get a bit static).  Also you have spotted one thing you need to do--LESS pedal!  Some phrases sound like they are bleeding into the next one.  At about 7:00 minutes into it there is that lovely section where the LH has the melody with a sort of shimmery embroidery over it in the RH.  Make that a bit more hushed--we've never heard the same ol' tune in quite that way--something Beethoven was a master at!  Make it special. 

You're doing great.  Have fun! 
Teresa