Finger evenness in executing fast runs

[theodore]

My right hand has slowly developed a problem over the years.   It seems that the third finger has become stronger than the second. But the strength of the other fingers  (4 and 5) have remained  the same.

This causes a strong accent whenever a smooth fast scale passage is attempted.  If a black key is played with the third finger then the accent is even stronger.

What could be the solution for evening out finger strength . This unevenness only happens in scale passages.  Is there a hand technique or drill which might lessen the percussive tone that my third finger produces ??

Thanks for any help or suggestions...

Theodore

[lost_child]

Just try practicing Hanon again.. Because Hanon's exercises is made to make our fingers all even together to press the white keys, instead of black keys..

[db05]

Just try practicing Hanon again.. Because Hanon's exercises is made to make our fingers all even together to press the white keys, instead of black keys..

If you do this, try some accent/ rhythm variations. Simply playing through like before won't work, you have to change it up a little bit. Sorry can't help much since I don't have that problem. However I find that Hanon isn't adequate for good technique.

Uneven finger strength isn't supposed to be such a problem, imo. Don't we all have uneven fingers? My thumbs are a lot stronger than the rest, and the 4th is weak. Nevertheless, I find ways to "restrain" the thumb and "strengthen" the 4th finger. But it all depends on the piece. Listen to recordings of it, or make up your own interpretation before learning it. If strong thumbs are required, then by all means, go do it. But carefully, of course.

[javacisnotrecognized]

Fingertapping & rhythm variations are good for ensuring evenness of runs. Try varying the rhythm so that, for example, the 3rd finger plays on the offbeats, and in places where the 3rd should actually play louder than the other fingers. Also, are you jamming your hand down towards the keyboard whenever you play the 3rd? This could cause unwanted accents. Try playing the passage slowly moving only the fingers - using the hand and arm merely to place the fingers over the right notes. (Of course you'd never perform it this way; but as an exercise it can point to where the problem is)

[gyzzzmo]

Play etudes. Chopins opus 10/1 works pretty good for strenghtening fingers. Play them slowly but with ascending power and stop bashing notes with that middle finger if its still too strong, bash with your weak fingers instead

[ramseytheii]

It doesn't have anything to do with so-called strength of fingers, but rather your approach.  You should adjust your touch to stroke the keys outward, like petting a cat, rather than the German "schlagen."  This will help you create an evenness of sound.

Also, the thumb and the pinky both have to be relaxed to create even sound in scales.

It's said that Horowitz could not play a scale with an even sound (without hiding it with pedal).  Perhaps that's true; look at his severely restricted pinky.

The balance of the hand rests above all on the outer edges.  If the thumb and pinky have no excess tension, the middle fingers will play themselves.

Walter Ramsey

[loonbohol]

Study La Campanella....

[gyzzzmo]

It doesn't have anything to do with so-called strength of fingers, but rather your approach.  You should adjust your touch to stroke the keys outward, like petting a cat, rather than the German "schlagen."  This will help you create an evenness of sound.

Walter Ramsey

I dont really agree (thats what's a forum for ), your sollution might work, but its better to train the weak finger instead having a technical sollution like yours that dont really work well with baroque music.
So to do it well its better to train that finger in control and strenght so somebody gets used to using that fingerm but thats my opinion

good luck,

gyzzzmo

[bernhard]

You can only make fingers even through surgery (chop the tips, so that they all have equal legth, amputate the thumb and reinsert it the other way round so that it is not opposing the other fingers, and cut the tendons that link together fingers 3, 4, 5).

The fingers are different. Accept it and move on with your life.

Most importantly, It is the sound that must be even, not the fingers. To accomplish that you must play unevenly. Think about this. It is the central paradox of piano playing.

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[gyzzzmo]

You can only make fingers even through surgery (chop the tips, so that they all have equal legth, amputate the thumb and reinsert it the other way round so that it is not opposing the other fingers, and cut the tendons that link together fingers 3, 4, 5).

The fingers are different. Accept it and move on with your life.

Most importantly, It is the sound that must be even, not the fingers. To accomplish that you must play unevenly. Think about this. It is the central paradox of piano playing.

Best wishes,
Bernhard

You dont have to get fingers 'even' for good result, but you can train them though so you at least have decent control. For a fast scales or whatever you can use tricks to get that sound even without having proper trained fingers, but with more complicated movements, especially with mozart and bach-like music you need alot of control. Chopin wrote his 10/2 for a reason

gyzzzmo

[bernhard]

You dont have to get fingers 'even' for good result, but you can train them though so you at least have decent control. For a fast scales or whatever you can use tricks to get that sound even without having proper trained fingers, but with more complicated movements, especially with mozart and bach-like music you need alot of control. Chopin wrote his 10/2 for a reason

gyzzzmo

Actually, you cannot get fingers “even”, even if you had too (whatever the results you are after).

Finger control is a different matter altogether, and why go for decent? Aim for superlative finger control. And why stop at the fingers? The fingers are the least important aspect (although obviously necessary) in piano playing. When punching, it is not the fist that matters, but the hip (where the power comes from) the feet (which gives you the stability and grounding) and joint alignment of the whole arm. In fact, if we want to be serious in this, we should start with mind control.

But look at the title of the thread:

Finger evenness (not control) in executing fast runs.

Sure finger control is the issue, but how can one even begin to address it, when the attention is completely focused on the non-problem of finger evenness (or strength, or whatever?). One ends up by spending all the time dispelling this comedy of errors, so that the real issues never get to be addressed.

As for Chopin, do you actually know the reason why he wrote Op. 10/2 (or any of the Etudes for that matter?)

Here is a clue:

"People have tried out all kinds of methods of learning to play the piano, methods that are tedious and useless and have nothing to do with the study of this instrument. It’s like learning, for example, to walk on one’s hands in order to go for a stroll. Eventually one is no longer able to walk properly on one’s feet, and not very well on one’s hands either. It doesn’t teach us how to play the music itself (nor what one calls difficulties), and the kind of difficulty we are practicing is not the difficulty in good music, the music of the greatest masters. It’s an abstract difficulty, a new genre of acrobatics."    -Frederic Chopin

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[gyzzzmo]

Actually, you cannot get fingers “even”, even if you had too (whatever the results you are after).

Finger control is a different matter altogether, and why go for decent? Aim for superlative finger control. And why stop at the fingers? The fingers are the least important aspect (although obviously necessary) in piano playing. When punching, it is not the fist that matters, but the hip (where the power comes from) the feet (which gives you the stability and grounding) and joint alignment of the whole arm. In fact, if we want to be serious in this, we should start with mind control.

But look at the title of the thread:

Finger evenness (not control) in executing fast runs.

Sure finger control is the issue, but how can one even begin to address it, when the attention is completely focused on the non-problem of finger evenness (or strength, or whatever?). One ends up by spending all the time dispelling this comedy of errors, so that the real issues never get to be addressed.

As for Chopin, do you actually know the reason why he wrote Op. 10/2 (or any of the Etudes for that matter?)

Here is a clue:

"People have tried out all kinds of methods of learning to play the piano, methods that are tedious and useless and have nothing to do with the study of this instrument. It’s like learning, for example, to walk on one’s hands in order to go for a stroll. Eventually one is no longer able to walk properly on one’s feet, and not very well on one’s hands either. It doesn’t teach us how to play the music itself (nor what one calls difficulties), and the kind of difficulty we are practicing is not the difficulty in good music, the music of the greatest masters. It’s an abstract difficulty, a new genre of acrobatics."    -Frederic Chopin

Best wishes,
Bernhard

So then how would you want anybody to train that 'superlative finger control'? Or do you really think that teaching somebody that superficial trick of rolling wrists to get even scales, is the way to get somebody good at playing piano?

If i teach my students, i start at the basics. Uneveness usually happens because people their brains dont realise that 4th finger can move individual. And no, its not possible to get all fingers even, but you can train people their brains to use that very undeveloped finger and can perform 'eveness'.

About the Chopin etudes... I have no idea how your Chopin quote would not correspond with my reply about those etudes, especially not if you see that quote in perspective in that time, where people only just started realising that pianoplaying (for example) is trained with the mind, not by physical endurance like with sports.

Gyzzzmo

[pianisten1989]

Ye, play hanon! Or wait! Why not play exercises that accualy helps?! Like Czerny?
Nah, sorry.. Go for hanon, since they are the worst exercises ever made, and also really boring, and doesn't even develop your sighr-reading.. But yeah, go for Hanon