Tabulating Level of virtuosity

[loonbohol]

I sincerely wan't you to input what piano pieces have you played in the past five years and can you tell  what is their skill in piano or others.

Loonbohol : Age 15


---My list---

Age 10: Getrude's dream Waltz
           Cavalry gallop
           Song for Anna
Age 11: Chopin Etude Op.25 no.2
           Chopin Etude Op.12 no.9   
           Chopin Etude Op.25 no.4
Age 12 : Chopin Etude Op.10 no.3 (Tristesse)
            Chopin Etude Op.25 no.9
            Chopin Etude Op.10 no.7
Age 13 : Sonata no.14
            Lizst Paganini Etude 5 (La Chasse)
           Lizst Paganini Etude 4
Age 14: Chopin Etude Op.10 no.4
           Chopin Etude  Op.25 no.1 (Aeolian Harp)
            Chopin Etude Op.10 no.11
Age 15(current) :Chopin Etude Op.10 no.12 (Revolutionary Etude)
                     Lizst Paganini Etude no.3 ( La Campanella)
                       Chopin Etude Op.25 no.11 (Winter wind) [currently learning]

What shoud I learn next?
Am I enough to be called Virtuoso?
And others you may ask your questions of how good are you here.
Just present your age tabulations and your performances

[quantum]

I think there is also the factor performance quality, and musical depth that needs to be taken into account.  How well do you play the repertoire. 


Chopets are good, I learned my first at 12.  They build both technique and musical understanding.  Have you considered other periods and composers?  If you can play all of those etudes with some sufficient level of comfort you may be have the tools to explore 20th/21st century music. 

[loonbohol]

I think there is also the factor performance quality, and musical depth that needs to be taken into account.  How well do you play the repertoire. 


Chopets are good, I learned my first at 12.  They build both technique and musical understanding.  Have you considered other periods and composers?  If you can play all of those etudes with some sufficient level of comfort you may be have the tools to explore 20th/21st century music. 

I play them very well..

[db05]

Age 13 : Sonata no.14

What sonata is this, by who?

What shoud I learn next?
Am I enough to be called Virtuoso?

I highly recommend Bach. If you don't have a book, the inventions are free here.
No. I think you'd have to be able WTC, and Beethoven sonatas.


If you're interested, I'm 19 now, currently in 2nd of my music course.

1st year (minor in piano), 1st semester (18)
Nothing performable, studied the easiest John Thompson books up to grade 1.

2nd semester (18-19)
Started Czerny Op. 599
Bach Minuet in G (No. 1 from First Lessons in Bach)

Summer
Bach Minuet in Gm (2)
Minuet in G (3)
Clementi Sonatina in C 1st mvt

2nd year (switched majors, now I'm majoring in piano), 1st semester (19)
Clementi Sonatina in C - complete
from Bach No.s 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

2nd semester (current)
Kuhlau Sonatina in C
1st mvt - polishing
2nd mvt - still learning
3rd mvt - still learning
Bach March (9) - still learning
Bach Invention No. 1 - still learning
Mozart Sonata No. 5 in G 1st mvt - lined up by my teacher

I'm not sure about adding more pieces. It might be too much, no?

[Kassaa]

I play them very well..

How do you know? I have some sincere doubts.

[demerzel]

The word virtuoso is commonly defined as far above average. Pieces such as La Campanella and the Chopin etudes obviously require way more technique than the average pianist has. I would call you a virtuoso if you could play those pieces well enough to record them, and at any rate you're certainly way better than I am.

I've been playing for a year and a half and piano is my first instrument. So far I've really only played one big-name song, which is Schubert's Impromptu No. 4 Op. 90. I'm also learning Chopin's Fantasie in F Minor right now. I'll freely admit that I'm not as good as a lot of other people, but it's not like I don't work at it at all.

[opus10no2]

Definition :

[gyzzzmo]

Nice, another brag thread, i was already wondering when a new one would come.

Gyzzzmo (currently 26 years old)


---My List---

age 15 (after ten years of lessons): Greensleeves (snoopy-edition)

age 18: I finally could play ALL thompson lvl 2 'etudes'!

age 21: Edvard Grieg: Gymnopedie no 1!

age 24: I wish you a merry Christmas

age 26: (last but not least...) Fur Elise. My grandma even gave me 50 cents when i played this for her!!!    !!!!!        !!! 

[db05]

Nice, another brag thread, i was already wondering when a new one would come.

Please, I think the OP is sincerely aking for advice here.

[gyzzzmo]

Please, I think the OP is sincerely aking for advice here.

No, if you see his replies and the way how he made up the post he's not asking for advice at all, only to show some silly list of a 'wannabe'.
His main question is about if he's a virtuoso.. Everybody knows those are pretty hard pieces especially at those ages, and when when somebody asks HOW he can play those he answers 'i play them very well'. Do i have to say more?

[loonbohol]

Please, I think the OP is sincerely aking for advice here.

Yes , Tell me what to learn next. I'll take the challenge.

[opus10no2]

C major scale, 4 octaves, 29 notes. One second.

If you can do this with a good even sound, you are good.

[db05]

Yes , Tell me what to learn next. I'll take the challenge.

I believe I already gave you suggestions here and on the Youtube Competition thread. I think it's a good combination. But that's just me. Will you do it? I tell you this, you may have played Chopin and Liszt, but Scarlatti will destroy you hahaha!  Good luck! You'll need it! 







Actually, Scarlatti is quite good for your technique and musicality. 
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8112.msg81927.html#msg81927
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2339.msg20064.html#msg20064

[pianowolfi]

C major scale, 4 octaves, 29 notes. One second.

If you can do this with a good even sound, you are good.

No probli. Glissando.

[gyzzzmo]

C major scale, 4 octaves, 29 notes. One second.

If you can do this with a good even sound, you are good.

Man i never knew playing scales was such a major indication of somebody's playing quality. I must suck since i almost never practise scales 

[opus10no2]

It is.

If one can do this it shows they have the dexterity and technique to execute most pieces at good tempo with control.

Sure, this kid can play the pieces, but this test will let us know how well, on an objecive technical level.

[gyzzzmo]

It is.

If one can do this it shows they have the dexterity and technique to execute most pieces at good tempo with control.

Sure, this kid can play the pieces, but this test will let us know how well, on an objecive technical level.

because all pieces have that many scales in them? :p

And what if somebody plays all chopin etudes very well, but is bad at scales, is that also an indication that he's a bad pianist afterall?

[db05]

It is.

If one can do this it shows they have the dexterity and technique to execute most pieces at good tempo with control.

Sure, this kid can play the pieces, but this test will let us know how well, on an objecive technical level.

I see what you mean, but I have to disagree about scales. Arpeggios are a better test of "dexterity and technique" and they occur more often in the pieces. 

[opus10no2]

Scales and arpeggios alike should be ingrained in the hands of any pianist.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to play any of the fast chopin etudes without being able to play fast scales and arpeggios.

Assuming the pianist has memorized the c major scale...

[gyzzzmo]

Scales and arpeggios alike should be ingrained in the hands of any pianist.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to play any of the fast chopin etudes without being able to play fast scales and arpeggios.

Assuming the pianist has memorized the c major scale...

And how do you know its so impossible, can you say this from own experience? Have you ever realised how small the technical value of scales is, especially for romantic compositions?

There are very, very few places in the chopin etudes where you have to do something like a scale (10/4 and 25/7 for example), for the other etudes scale-training is a complete waste of time since you dont use it.


Scales might only be useful if you you have a shitload of Mozart in your repetoire but even then you only have to know like 7 scales to cover everything. Playing scales fast is therefor not an indication of technical quality at all, more a hint that your teacher liked playing Hanon alot.

[opus10no2]

Incorrect.

Scales show raw dexterity and speed of thumb passing (actually related to octave playing).

I don't advocate excessive practice of them, I just know they are a very simple way of judging technical ability.

The simplest way of all is noting how fast each digit can play without wrist asistance.

[gyzzzmo]

because thumbpassing is such a huge part of the technical spectrum? then no wonder that you're that amazed by op 10/2 etude: no thumbpassing in that one :p

[opus10no2]

My word is law.

Go directly to jail, do not pass go.

[gyzzzmo]

My word is law.

Go directly to jail, do not pass go.

I will, and during my sentence i will overthink my lack of scaling practice and think about how i will change that my next life 

[loonbohol]

Scales...!!!!! 
I am not that good.

Now I am planning Transcendental Etude 5 (Fox Fellet)

I read the musical notation and it is easier than I think.

[Kassaa]

Scales...!!!!! 
I am not that good.

Now I am planning Transcendental Etude 5 (Fox Fellet)

I read the musical notation and it is easier than I think.

[opus10no2]

lawlz indeed

[db05]

Scales...!!!!! 
I am not that good.

Now I am planning Transcendental Etude 5 (Fox Fellet)

I read the musical notation and it is easier than I think.

Listen to gyzzzmo, he gives good advice. Scales are overrated.

[opus10no2]

Incorrect.

[db05]

Incorrect.

I find it funny that he admits he's not good at scales but decides on a piece instead. 

No amount of scale practice will help him if he's not interested.

[opus10no2]

Did I ever mention practicing scales?

I suggested memorizing the C major scale, and using it to 'tabulate' the level of virtuosity.

Should take no time at all.. in fact only 1 second 

[imbetter]

Ok, first of all scales of very important in developing piano technique.

Loon I think you should give all these virtuoso etudes a break and learn some other music. Here are some things that might be good ideas for you:

Bach: Well Tempered Clavier
Scarlatti: Maybe a sonata or two
A sonata by Mozart Haydn or Beethoven
Maybe A substantial romantic work that's not of the etude genre.
Something if the 20th century. Maybe you could start with some preludes by Debussy.

I hope I helped!

PS: A virtuoso is a master of the arts. Ask yourself: Are you a master of the piano? Do you excel in every technical and musical aspect?
PSS: Who's your sonata no.14 by?

[gyzzzmo]

Ok, first of all scales of very important in developing piano technique.

Saying scales are that important is the same as saying that people cant do without Hanon.

[amelialw]

I sincerely wan't you to input what piano pieces have you played in the past five years and can you tell  what is their skill in piano or others.

Loonbohol : Age 15


---My list---

Age 10: Getrude's dream Waltz
           Cavalry gallop
           Song for Anna
Age 11: Chopin Etude Op.25 no.2
           Chopin Etude Op.12 no.9   
           Chopin Etude Op.25 no.4
Age 12 : Chopin Etude Op.10 no.3 (Tristesse)
            Chopin Etude Op.25 no.9
            Chopin Etude Op.10 no.7
Age 13 : Sonata no.14
            Lizst Paganini Etude 5 (La Chasse)
           Lizst Paganini Etude 4
Age 14: Chopin Etude Op.10 no.4
           Chopin Etude  Op.25 no.1 (Aeolian Harp)
            Chopin Etude Op.10 no.11
Age 15(current) :Chopin Etude Op.10 no.12 (Revolutionary Etude)
                     Lizst Paganini Etude no.3 ( La Campanella)
                       Chopin Etude Op.25 no.11 (Winter wind) [currently learning]

What shoud I learn next?
Am I enough to be called Virtuoso?
And others you may ask your questions of how good are you here.
Just present your age tabulations and your performances

this makes me feel so inferioir especially since i'm quite alot older then you!!! i was not so fortunate to have a good teacher for many years and i just rebuilt my technique 5 yrs+ ago...anyway here's the list:

age 16-17: from aug'03
-Mozart Sonata in B flat major K570(1st mvt)
-Sacro Monte
-Bach Prelude&Fugue in G from bk2

age 17-18:
-Mozart Sonata in B flat major K570(1st mvt)
-Sacro Monte
-Bach Prelude&Fugue in G from bk2
-Mozart Sonata in B flat major K570(2nd & 3rd mvt's)
-Chopin Nocturne in e minor op.72 no.1
-Debussy Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum from Children's Corner
-Study in a minor from Gr 10 RCM Studies bk
-Bach Prelude&Fugue in E from bk 1
age 18-19:
-Chopin Nocturne in e minor op.72 no.1
-Debussy Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum from Children's Corner
-Study in a minor from Gr 10 RCM Studies bk
-Bach Prelude&Fugue in E from bk 1
-Haydn Sonata in D major Hob XVI/33;L/34 (complete)
-Heller Prelude in c sharp minor from Gr 10 RCM Studies bk
-Tsitaros Snow Games
-Chopin 4 of 23 preludes
-Rachmaninoff Prelude in G op.32 no.5
-Bach Partita no.2 in c (Sinfonia):practised this one on&off so i finished it much later
-Mozart Sonata in c K457 (complete)
-Prokofiev 4 of Visions Fugitives (same case for this one, i only ended up practicing it about 1&a half yrs later before my exam but did really well for it)
-Chopin Etude in F op.10 no.8

age 19-20
-Chopin 4 of 23 preludes
-Rachmaninoff Prelude in G op.32 no.5
-Bach Partita no.2 in c (Sinfonia):practised this one on&off so i finished it much later
-Mozart Sonata in c K457 (complete)
-Prokofiev 4 of Visions Fugitives (same case for this one, i only ended up practicing it about 1&a half yrs later before my exam but did really well for it)
-Chopin Etude in F op.10 no.8
-Haydn Sonata in E flat Hob.XVI/49;L/59 (complete)
-Mendelssohn Andante&Rondo Cappriccioso op.14
-Rachmaninoff Prelude in g sharp minor op.32 no.12
-Chopin Etude in G flat major op.10 no.5
-Schumann Piano Concerto op.54(unfortunately, this one was left hanging, will probbaly get back to it after my Mozart Piano Concerto)
-Beethoven Sonata in A op.2 no.2
-Chopin Etude in c sharp minor op.10 no.4

age 20-21
-Bach Partita no.2 in c (Sinfonia)
-Prokofiev 4 of Visions Fugitives (finally got back to it 3 months b4 my exam)
-Chopin Etude in F op.10 no.8
-Haydn Sonata in E flat Hob.XVI/49;L/59 (complete)
-Mendelssohn Andante&Rondo Cappriccioso op.14
-Rachmaninoff Prelude in g sharp minor op.32 no.12
-Beethoven Sonata in A op.2 no.2
-Chopin Etude in c sharp minor op.10 no.4

after this i moved back to singapore...still picked pieces with the advice of my canada teacher and still am of course i'm with another teacher now
Beethoven Sonata in F op.10 no.2 (complete)
Liszt Un Sospiro
Beethoven Sonata Waldstein
Beethoven Sonata in C op.2 no.3 (complete)
Mozart Piano Concerto "Coronation" (complete)
Beethoven Sonata in D op.10 no.3 (complete)
Schumann Abegg Variations op.1

i guess, i am pretty happy with my progress. i feel that i could have done more with my canada teacher, she feels the same way too. But of late, i've improved vastly, somehow, i guess i grew to dependent on my canada teacher so i did not do as well as i could have with her. She still will often voice that she is extremely proud of me for what i accomplished under her.

[pianowolfi]

this makes me feel so inferioir especially since i'm quite alot older then you!!!

Nothing should make you feel inferior at all!

[db05]

this makes me feel so inferioir especially since i'm quite alot older then you!!! i was not so fortunate to have a good teacher for many years and i just rebuilt my technique 5 yrs+ ago...anyway here's the list:

No need to feel inferior; you're miles away from loonbohol.

A MOZART sonata (even if it's just 1st mvt) and BACH P and F in the first year?!?! This kind of progress is unheard of in our school. At least two years to get there. How was the Bach in particular? It's like you skipped entire books to do WTC so soon.

[amelialw]

No need to feel inferior; you're miles away from loonbohol.

A MOZART sonata (even if it's just 1st mvt) and BACH P and F in the first year?!?! This kind of progress is unheard of in our school. At least two years to get there. How was the Bach in particular? It's like you skipped entire books to do WTC so soon.

thanks!
umm. those were the pieces that i was learning when i was rebuilding my technique. I actually started piano when i was 3 but never had a good teacher till i was 16 and even then we took 2 yrs to correct all of my bad habits etc. Before that actually I had never learnt Bach (except for the Prelude no.1 in c major and i the only mozart sonata i had worked on before was the sonata in C K 545. The Bach was very tough for me and the 1st yr with my canada teacher was like torture to me but it proved to be worth it.

[gyzzzmo]

amelialw, dont take people like the thread poster too seriously. His way of posting and that list indicates that he's more likely a wannabe in puberty than a supertalent. Dont worry

[db05]

umm. those were the pieces that i was learning when i was rebuilding my technique. I actually started piano when i was 3 but never had a good teacher till i was 16 and even then we took 2 yrs to correct all of my bad habits etc. Before that actually I had never learnt Bach (except for the Prelude no.1 in c major and i the only mozart sonata i had worked on before was the sonata in C K 545. The Bach was very tough for me and the 1st yr with my canada teacher was like torture to me but it proved to be worth it.

Yes, Bach and Mozart are very tough, in different ways. But you did it! Congratulations.

I am not sure what you mean by such bad technique that you needed 2 yrs to correct it. But then if you started so early, it might be possible to unknowingly pick up bad habits. Might be a case for starting late, huh?

amelialw, dont take people like the thread poster too seriously. His way of posting and that list indicates that he's more likely a wannabe in puberty than a supertalent. Dont worry

Hahaha, loon is just another kid who dreams big. 

[pianisten1989]

Scales...!!!!! 
I am not that good.

Now I am planning Transcendental Etude 5 (Fox Fellet)

I read the musical notation and it is easier than I think.

HAHAHAHAHH!!!!

Who is the idiot who said that this kid istn't bragging?!
Sorry, but seriously?
To think that this piece is easy, and tell everyone you do, is probably the worst case of bragging i've ever seen.

Anyway
I started playing when I was 17½. When I was 18 I could play:
Islamey (All keys) It really wasn't that difficult. I sight read it in 2 minutes.
Waldstein/appassionata, at the same time. I accually play the waldstein with my left hand and Appassionata with my right. That's waaaay too easy, for someone like me. I THink people like Franz Liszt and Chopin would have problems with it, but I an much better than they were.
All chopin-etudes+4871 variation I improvised while I slept.
And some other noob pieces like all the Transcendental Etudes, and such.

How good am I, will I be the best pianist of all time?
How well are you playing? Did you sight read La Campanella after 1 month playing as I did? I really don't want to brag, I just want to tell everyone how great I am.. Uhm, I mean... I want inspire other pianists

I AM THE GREATEST PIANIST ALIVE!!! MUHAHAHAH!!!!!

[db05]

I started playing when I was 17½. When I was 18 I could play:
Islamey (All keys) It really wasn't that difficult. I sight read it in 2 minutes.
Waldstein/appassionata, at the same time. I accually play the waldstein with my left hand and Appassionata with my right. That's waaaay too easy, for someone like me. I THink people like Franz Liszt and Chopin would have problems with it, but I an much better than they were.
All chopin-etudes+4871 variation I improvised while I slept.
And some other noob pieces like all the Transcendental Etudes, and such.

LOL, I couldn't help finding this funny. 
Sorry, loon.

[frank_48]

HAHAHAHAHH!!!!

Who is the idiot who said that this kid istn't bragging?!
Sorry, but seriously?
To think that this piece is easy, and tell everyone you do, is probably the worst case of bragging i've ever seen.

Anyway
I started playing when I was 17½. When I was 18 I could play:
Islamey (All keys) It really wasn't that difficult. I sight read it in 2 minutes.
Waldstein/appassionata, at the same time. I accually play the waldstein with my left hand and Appassionata with my right. That's waaaay too easy, for someone like me. I THink people like Franz Liszt and Chopin would have problems with it, but I an much better than they were.
All chopin-etudes+4871 variation I improvised while I slept.
And some other noob pieces like all the Transcendental Etudes, and such.

How good am I, will I be the best pianist of all time?
How well are you playing? Did you sight read La Campanella after 1 month playing as I did? I really don't want to brag, I just want to tell everyone how great I am.. Uhm, I mean... I want inspire other pianists

I AM THE GREATEST PIANIST ALIVE!!! MUHAHAHAH!!!!!

LOL!, Post of the year! 

[loonbohol]

I lack proficiency in piano playing

[klm46]

I lack proficiency in piano playing

If you know that then why are you asking if you should be called a virtuoso?