not teacherless but mentorless

[db05]

I wonder if you've experienced this in your piano/ music studies. You may have several teachers, but it's a little bit too much and too unorganized and you have to do all the sorting out yourself.

So I have:
1 piano teacher, but I went through 3 (including the dean) before this one, who used to be head teacher
2 guitar teachers, one is my "former mentor" who is the neighborhood guitarist I started with, the other is the teacher in school
1 teacher for theory, forms, history and solfege, who is also the dean in our school and a piano teacher
and I don't know if it counts, but the visiting professor is a great guy when he's there

I don't think many of my teachers understand how hard some things are for me. Emotionally unstable AND with poor coordination AND with poor sense of pitch. I just seem intelligent and when I have a finished piece, it seems all too easy.

I think it's nice to get from many sources and have the best of both worlds (classical/pop, piano/guitar, traditional/not traditional) but I'm really crazy now!!! It wasn't long since the last time I ranted on here. Which means the mood swings are getting worse...  Can't practice/ play properly right now, hence the time online.

I've at least determined that I won't quit either of my instruments teacher or no teacher. I want/need a mentor to sort things out; a mere teacher makes it more confusing sometimes and a psychologist/ psychiatrist may not know what it takes to play music. Like for example how music is dull if you're on antidepressant.

With regards to teachers:

I had been asking for a teacher change in piano forever, but I had always been turned down by the dean, and I'm not really sure if it's a good idea. Both my teacher and the dean are good, but totally different in attitude. I've had progress with both; it's hard to tell which one is good for me. Or if I'm better off with none. Since I've laid out plans for myself and schoolwork is only hindering my plans (What's up with all that Hanon and Czerny? And none of the teachers teach Scarlatti, my favorite...  ) And the dean had already told me that I may not be "truly fit to undergo a course of study due to emotional instability." I take it that he has given up on me and is just going with the flow now (which means me arguing and crying a lot).

With guitar, both teachers have gone beyond teaching to being good friends, and there are good and bad points to this. Sometimes we get lost chatting about something far from lesson topic, although still touching on music. I guess that helps, too. But it's very disorganized. My first teacher was helpful and I owe him my good start, but he hadn't been to music school like me.

I am truly lost. Sorry for the long post. This is about both piano and music study and coping with all it entails. How do you make sense of it?

[m19834]

You would probably like a long and detailed response saying exactly everything you can't quite imagine and can't quite put your finger on as needing to hear.  When it all comes down to it, what you are doing, who you are working with, whether it is confusing for you or not, is either working for you or it is not.  And, you need to figure out what your measuring stick is going to be to gauge the reality of that.  Once you know whether it's working or not working, then changes can be made toward better using your potential, in whatever way that needs to come about.

Now, I am going to the piano to use my own potential in getting my jobs done.

[db05]

You would probably like a long and detailed response saying exactly everything you can't quite imagine and can't quite put your finger on as needing to hear.  When it all comes down to it, what you are doing, who you are working with, whether it is confusing for you or not, is either working for you or it is not.  And, you need to figure out what your measuring stick is going to be to gauge the reality of that.  Once you know whether it's working or not working, then changes can be made toward better using your potential, in whatever way that needs to come about.

You are right; I can't quite put my finger on it so I end up telling everything that comes to mind. As my guitar teacher would say, everything musical that you do has bearing on your studies. But what about time and effort? There are efficient ways of learning and not-so-efficient ways. I for one would prefer a slow but steady and straight approach instead of the running around in circles I'm doing now. I find I am still lacking in the basics, although I am taught as intermediate student. I tend to fill in the gaps on my own and it is so desperate that I'm still sight reading on grade one level.

[pianistimo]

Richter had a very strict upbringing.  He didn't crack - but can you imagine if someone woke you up at 5 or 6 am every morning to start your piano practice regime.  That's why some pianists get to be extremely coordinated.  However, there can be other reasons to worry about 'coordination.'  It can stem from the brain - and the neural circuits and what is connecting and what isn't.  From what people tell me, i should be worried about this too.  However, until it completely breaks down i'm not going to medicate.  This is my philosophy - enjoy life, enjoy music - it's just a situtation that is temporary.  We tend to think we are somehow making huge progress this way and that way...but as you get further down the road sometimes you just wish you had hugged that person a little bit longer.  Or...played that piece as though you were playing it for nobody and everybody at the same time.  To really not  CARE what other people think.  Make yourself happy.  And, i think it makes G-d happy when you are satisfied the way he made you.  Be proud of yourself and just disagree with the dean.  You can choose to do whatever you want in music.  It isn't his choice anyways.  It's yours.  Why let someone have that kind of control over your choices.  It's mental sabotage - that is.  Telling someone else they 'can't play' because of emotional stuff.  Women are emotional in general.  It actually helps music become more real.

This is what helps me: put G-d first and people second (study and meditate on good things that keep your mind positive because people can tell you all kinds of negatives.  G-d is always positive and loving).  Exercise.  It's a sure way to keep your mind thinking happier thoughts.  Love completely.  Find a pet. A person.  Something or someone.  A goldfish even.  Love it.  Feed it.  Keep it going.  Make some of your music revolve around the goldfish.  Speak to it.  Sing to it.  Play your learned music for retirement home age people.  They always have something good to say.  And, they really like the attention.  After a while you become good at performing because you haven't any nerves anymore and you start seeing the universal circle of life.  The depression they have is because they are about to kick the bucket.  You are there to alleviate the bucket problem.

[db05]

Be proud of yourself and just disagree with the dean.  You can choose to do whatever you want in music.  It isn't his choice anyways.  It's yours.  Why let someone have that kind of control over your choices.  It's mental sabotage - that is.  Telling someone else they 'can't play' because of emotional stuff.  Women are emotional in general.  It actually helps music become more real.

Love completely.  Find a pet. A person.  Something or someone.  A goldfish even. 

Well that's the rub, since the dean IS my little goldfish. Or did you forget "dear pianistimo" a while back? He always has good reasons for saying something, and knows me better than anyone.

Richter had a very strict upbringing.  He didn't crack - but can you imagine if someone woke you up at 5 or 6 am every morning to start your piano practice regime.  That's why some pianists get to be extremely coordinated.  However, there can be other reasons to worry about 'coordination.'  It can stem from the brain - and the neural circuits and what is connecting and what isn't.  From what people tell me, i should be worried about this too.

I've had this coordination problem since childhood, amongst other things. Was tested for autism. Negative. (More like a case of Aspergers though.) But definitely not normal. I've always coped with my intelligence and a bit of stubborness. I love my little goldfish and wished he could be my mentor, but that wasn't meant to happen. Now I think my intelligence has reached its limit and I don't even know how or when to start.

[m19834]

I find I am still lacking in the basics, although I am taught as intermediate student. I tend to fill in the gaps on my own and it is so desperate that I'm still sight reading on grade one level.

I wonder how many people can relate, actually ?  I think it's a known fact that many of the problems that people encounter and endure within their playing and practicing at any level, stem back to something very fundamental or 'basic' that needs adjusting and/or strengthening.  Some people might argue that ANY problem encountered in playing stems back to the fundamentals.  I personally lean toward thinking that way, too.

Honestly, I am not sure what that means, exactly.  Maybe it means that everybody should have been raised on M4U's program, maybe it means we all should have had the same teachers that the greats had, or the same education in general, or the same hands, or the same brain, or all of the above ... somehow I don't think so though.  I wonder how many people have zero gaps at all ?

In any event, I think that the idea of an individual progressing in all ways in equal proportions at once is at least unrealistic.  What, exactly, to do about that is another matter, and even though the general situation may be similar for many people, the answers are pretty individual, I think.  And, yes, I think a mentor could be very helpful, if not invaluable, in this regard.

[db05]

In any event, I think that the idea of an individual progressing in all ways in equal proportions at once is at least unrealistic.

And yet we are expected to do well in "traditional schooling". And I wonder about those who learned music within a graded system. Doesn't it feel too much like school?

Or maybe normal people are still within the bounds of normalcy, and can function within that circle... I find that I am the only one who seems to be having problems. Difficulty goes for most everyone, but not problems.

I am tired of thinking now....... 

[amelialw]

i can symphatize with you. I have well gone through alot since i returned to singapore for music school.

I currently have 3 piano teachers.
One is my teacher from canada, and she will be back here once in a while for holidays and to help me or give me some guidiance be it for practical or theory. I feel that she is one of the few people who understand what i went through because she is the one who went through it with me and I know that she sincerely cares about my future and my life.

Another teacher, he is my teacher that was assigned by the school. All students under the teaching scholarship program are assigned to 1 out of 3 teachers. He is a foundation teacher, so tries to rebuild everything and change my technique which is extremely frustrating for me since i've already spent 3-4 yrs doing that so i of course have been firm in my decision and rather stubborn at that. He can tell that my teacher from canada has taught me well, however, there have been a few times where i have seem to fallen back to old, bad habits and he just scolds me when he does not understand and thinks i'm not being a good student whenever that happens. I have tried twice already to switch teachers but the school always ends up talking to him and he does not feel the same way.

My 3rd teacher, my teacher from canada knew her way back and reccomended her. She is an excellent teacher, however she restricts all lesson times to 1hr and charges $100 each lesson. When i 1st started with her, i was very pleased. For 30 mins she would get me to play and then spend the other 30 mins correcting me and helping me with parts i needed help with. Then as we carried on, she started pilling me with pieces. Now i'm learning so many different pieces that almost the whole lesson every week is spent playing, i hardly get comments from her anymore and even if i hand her my book, it's always practically empty when i get home.

My canada teacher is currently back in singapore. I did discuss this issue with her the other day when i met her. She said that she had expected something like this to happen anyway partly because i have worked with her for 5 yrs and it's hard for me to adjust to new teachers and partly because i am now at a level where i've become much more independent and am suddenly moving alot faster, so I don't want to be held back. I told her that even though i have 2 teachers, it feels like i don't really have a teacher rather then the progress that i make is from my own effort when i told her how i chose my pieces, studied and practiced them etc. She agreed with me and said that perhaps i might be time for me to be on my own soon, meaning without a teacher and she will tell me when to stop with my private lessons. She has known all along that i struggle in sight-reading and learning new pieces but am very strong when i learn from ear, so not having her for so long has forced me to become alot more independent and learn how to make use of my strength. Now when i practice, about half of it does not involve touching the piano, it involves listening to music and just playing it in my mind and studying it.

She did of course listen to my playing. With my Beethoven Sonata op.10 no.3(1st mvt.) she cautioned me to watch my hands for the beginning of the piece and said that sometimes i had a tendancy to play with flat fingers again and use awkward fingerings but she was very impressed with the ending and said that was how she wanted the rest of the piece to sound like. After that she asked to listen to a bit of the 1st mvt of my Mozart piano concerto. I know how much when she says a bit, so i was waiting for her to ask me to stop but she never did. When i finished, she just gave me a big smile and told me afterwards that it was excellent. The way i phrased, my touch and tone, the way i brought out the colors in the piece was something she had never heard from me before and told me that i really showed her what i was capable of although this piece is easier than the Beethoven Sonata.

My teacher has also planned for me to return to canada to study for 2 more years in 3& a half yrs time at the Vancouver Academy of Music.

[db05]

i can symphatize with you. I have well gone through alot since i returned to singapore for music school.

Thanks. I see you're working on a lot. Can you tell me how you study?

I am far from being able to study without a teacher, although there is a lot I do alone...

[amelialw]

Thanks. I see you're working on a lot. Can you tell me how you study?

I am far from being able to study without a teacher, although there is a lot I do alone...

yes, of course. Since i have perfect piece, I always learn by ear and by reading the music score. Usually, actually almost all the time, I will struggle for the 1st week+ when i pick up a piece, even if i have studied it by ear. In fact it used to take me almost a month to learn the notes in the past, when my sight-reading was weaker and i did not really know how to make use of m ability yet(just a couple of months back)

so:
1st week+-learn the notes, if i have studied the piece by ear it might be possible to start adding in a few details after a couple of days
after 1st week or so-add in all the details;dynamics,phrasing,etc. more study done by listening to the piece, if possible watching a video helps even more+practicing the piece in my head. usually by then the piece will be memorized as well, if not the by the end of the 2nd/3rd week depending on the difficulty
after 2 weeks or so-add in the musical aspect of the piece;the tonal color so that i'll have sufficiant time to let the piece mature
by 3rd week-memorised, detailed &musical work done. time is then given to let the piece settle.sometimes i may even take a few days off from the piece. once this is done, i'll prep the piece for performance

[m19834]

I am far from being able to study without a teacher, although there is a lot I do alone...

Sometimes we can create a feeling of chaos and isolation simply by believing --and acting on that belief-- that we must do more than what is being asked of us already.  When we allow that to happen, then what is being asked of us is not actually being done, and our advancement and progress becomes stifled.

What is being asked of you by your teachers is either impossible or it is not, and if it is not, then it would be wise to make sure you are actually doing what you have been asked to do, and that you are doing it very well.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And then allow them to give you further instructions when you have completed what has been asked of you already.  If it is truly impossible for you, not just inwardly uncomfortable or difficult, then you need to let your teacher know that it is and give him/her the opportunity to help you.

Are you really doing what your teachers are asking you to be doing ?  Are you truly being asked to "fill in" all of the gaps on your own ?  Is your feeling of inefficient practicing created out of your own approach or lack of commitment toward doing what is being asked of you ?

The only way you can allow somebody to mentor you is by doing exactly what they are asking of you.  The only way for you to stop feeling the responsibility to fill in all of the gaps on your own is to trust how you are being otherwise educated.  The only way to stop feeling tired from overthinking is to stop overthinking.

I am far from being able to study without a teacher

If that is really true, then it's actually not your assessment to make and it is then a waste of your time and energy to keep trying to assess it.  And, it would be wise then to figure out what is the right thing to be doing on your own, and what is the wrong.  A teacher can only point things out that you need to work on and ask you to work on them, what you must do that is the right thing when you are on your own, is do them.

[db05]

so:
1st week+-learn the notes, if i have studied the piece by ear it might be possible to start adding in a few details after a couple of days
after 1st week or so-add in all the details;dynamics,phrasing,etc. more study done by listening to the piece, if possible watching a video helps even more+practicing the piece in my head. usually by then the piece will be memorized as well, if not the by the end of the 2nd/3rd week depending on the difficulty

Learing all the notes in 1 week. That's something I can shoot for. I can do that for my Czerny and first Bach pieces (maybe a little expression in there too), but not "real" pieces. Details come as I memorize a piece, further study on a finished piece helps me little; either I "get it" or I don't. And sometimes it's just a matter of time.

---

Sometimes we can create a feeling of chaos and isolation simply by believing --and acting on that belief-- that we must do more than what is being asked of us already.  When we allow that to happen, then what is being asked of us is not actually being done, and our advancement and progress becomes stifled.

You are on the mark here. I have talked with both piano teachers today. What they expect of me is different from what I expect of myself. And totally different definitions of "progress". My teacher is implying that I am lazy, well in fact I give everything to this instrument. I even gave up my good start on guitar... I tend to do more because I think more, not being bound by decades of teaching experience and lack of time. Or rather not having enough of it. For one thing, memorizing and playing musically was never required of me in piano, but I end up doing it. I give credit to my former mentor for passing on such a harsh way of thinking. He was the meticulous one, a quality I seem to miss these days...

I am such a disorganized person that I cannot do without a teacher. I am such a stubborn person that I cannot follow a teacher.

Are you really doing what your teachers are asking you to be doing ?  Are you truly being asked to "fill in" all of the gaps on your own ?  Is your feeling of inefficient practicing created out of your own approach or lack of commitment toward doing what is being asked of you ?

For piano and the music subjects, I fulfill all requirements, and sometimes more. I haven't been told to fill any gaps, I just felt it on my own. My guitar had been left behind, though. It is a terribly difficult instrument and my teachers had been adjusting their demands knowing I am focusing on piano. One gave too hard a piece that I couldn't finish and that got me depressed. The other was only concerned about the guitar exam, which is easy.

For a time, I can commit. And then I cannot. This has been going in and out for some time now. I had modified the approach several times, and I think it's much better than when I started. But there is no guarantee I can keep up my pace. I want someone who can help me on a more personal level; it's like you have all the tools but you're just a child who might hurt youself. Sometimes I feel that I have fear of success as well as failure.

The crazy thing is, Ma'am Karli, you give me that which I would expect from my teachers. Which are a talking-to and things to think about. Sometimes I'd wish the teachers here were my teachers, and the students here my classmates. Everyone there seem to be content at their level of mediocrity, and I'm the only one who wants to achieve something. Or maybe I'm just unhappy. 

[m19834]

I have talked with both piano teachers today. What they expect of me is different from what I expect of myself. And totally different definitions of "progress".

Honestly, my answer here and in general is still the same as in my original post, no matter how complicated it seems to be otherwise.  It is either working for you or it is not.  Period.  And, I think that your confusion right now lay mainly in you not being sure how to discern whether it is or not, and if it is not, what/who the problem is, exactly.  And, on top of that, I think there is an element of not being sure/fear that you can/'t find something that will work for you, even if what you are doing is not.  You have listed on the forum a few times and in various ways things that you feel do work for you, and that is good.  You need to keep following that and continue to build from there, as well as be aware of what is not working for you.  There is just nothing else you can do, Db.

You may gain some knowledge and tools/skills as you go, but you are going to have to continue gaining some personal integrity, too (we all must), in the sense that you begin --and continue-- to build some kind of secure workplace within yourself that is strong, flexible, and suitable for what you are artistically and potentially made of.  That only comes with having successes and failures, and learning from those, and basically gaining experience.  That means that at the heart of it we must have a basic willingness above all else, to continue carrying on.  Being willing to change forms, change shapes, but continue moving deeper and deeper into life and who you are.

I am such a disorganized person that I cannot do without a teacher. I am such a stubborn person that I cannot follow a teacher.

I think that stubbornness can be very useful, in the right circumstances.  At some points though, it can very much get into your own way, which is not what the stubbornness is there for in the first place, if you see what I mean.  Perfectionism is a similar thing.  It is good in some quantity and up to a certain point, but at some point it actually can turn against us and actually work against the purpose in its existence in the first place.  I think that ultimately, you would like a situation where you feel you don't have to fight anymore, and from my point of view, that would be in your benefit.  It is good to digest and be curious about the information you are being given, and to explore the experiences that you may be having, but don't let that work against you.

Ma'am Karli,

While I appreciate the implied sentiments, if your sentiments are indeed true, I would like to please request that you drop the "Ma'am" and just call me Karli.  Thank you .

you give me that which I would expect from my teachers. Which are a talking-to and things to think about.

Well, you are only finding whatever it is that you are seeking.  Don't be fooled by appearances in how you happen to be finding it, into thinking that you are not just plainly getting from life what you may happen to be needing.  In any event, in some ways it is easier for me or someone else to help you in this way than it may be for somebody whom is directly involved. 

(...)and I'm the only one who wants to achieve something. Or maybe I'm just unhappy. 

Firstly, how is it that you can afford to be worrying about what your classmates do or do not want ?  And, how, exactly, do you rate in calling it mediocracy ?  That is quite frankly not your place and is nothing but an excuse to keep living in your little bubble of thoughts and desires.  If you are unhappy, then you need to stop pointing fingers and start paying attention to your unhappiness.  At the root of it, no matter what is going on around you and no matter who else is or is not doing what, the unhappiness stems from some unfulfilled desire regarding your own life.  And, while realizing this plainly certainly doesn't "solve" everything overnight, it can certainly get you more focused on what is your business and what is not.  With you, Db, I am "all business" and there is a reason for that. 

[db05]

I think that ultimately, you would like a situation where you feel you don't have to fight anymore,

That's easy. If I'm dead or I give up, I don't have to fight. 
Seriously, I realize that to totally agree with a teacher is impossible for me. There will always be disputes. I just want someone who'd make me feel confident and secure, I guess.

While I appreciate the implied sentiments, if your sentiments are indeed true, I would like to please request that you drop the "Ma'am" and just call me Karli.  Thank you .

Yes, Ma'am.
Oops. You meant the other way around.
Yes, Karli.

Firstly, how is it that you can afford to be worrying about what your classmates do or do not want ?  And, how, exactly, do you rate in calling it mediocracy ?  That is quite frankly not your place and is nothing but an excuse to keep living in your little bubble of thoughts and desires.  If you are unhappy, then you need to stop pointing fingers and start paying attention to your unhappiness.  At the root of it, no matter what is going on around you and no matter who else is or is not doing what, the unhappiness stems from some unfulfilled desire regarding your own life. 

I mentioned earlier that I miss the meticulousness of my former mentor. It might be to my disadvantage that I started my music study with such a principled, disciplined and perfectionist teacher. Although he'd deny and call it being "meticulous", it makes me wonder what's the difference LOL.

In class there is always a chance to hear how the others play/ practice and what attitude they have to studies. I have to admit I cringe at some performances, but I try to be nice and act my place. In the lessons, it's so noisy I get annoyed. There was a day that I wore earplugs the whole time because I didn't feel like taking them off.

Theories:
1. I'm super-sensitive whether it's music or noise. Sometimes even the temperature ticks me off.
2. I'm not used to rowdy classmates, having studied in top schools for some time. I had grown accustomed to having more studious and intelligent classmates.

[m19834]

Db, for now, I will say somewhat bluntly that if you can't cope with your circumstances, then change them.  Perhaps I will grow softer at some point and come back and reread with a softer eye.  In any event, I have to somehow muster enough energy to productively give to my own, very long day ahead of me (and believe me, I am going to have to draw it from some source that I don't know of, at the moment), and the piano (and voice, if I can ever get to it) is patiently waiting for me.  That is where I need to invest myself for now.  I wish you well for now .

[db05]

Db, for now, I will say somewhat bluntly that if you can't cope with your circumstances, then change them.

Are you saying that I should quit music school?

[m19834]

Are you saying that I should quit music school?

Db, I am on some hiatus from taking my time and energy to address your concerns, unless you can muster a sincere and very simple "thank you" for what I have already contributed.

 

[db05]

My apologies for the useless post. I am still tired from yesterday's lessons.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008:
> I'd talked to both my teachers today. It was the best I can do. I felt like
> crying, so I did. I cried a lot.
>
> I tried to explain to sir my problem with my teacher without blaming him. It
> is difficult and I ended up saying I love him and he doesn't seem to care.
> He's made it clear he can't reciprocate, but now he's really angry at me
> implying that he doesn't care. He walked out. He doesn't get the connection
> with my problem with my teacher.
>
> My piano teacher is steadfast. She doesn't seem to understand me at all. How
> do you expect me to feel righteous when it's my beloved teacher and my
> classmates who are his students, and I'm the one who hasn't done anything,
> not even audition? I ended up trying to make her promise not to criticize
> Sir in front of me. But she wouldn't listen and said I needed the
> experience. Experience what? Getting my heart broken? What's the point. I
> cannot study or play if my heart is broken. There is no purpose.
>
> I decided to cancel trying to get a transfer and just walk out if teacher
> says something I don't like.

After school, I was so pissed I decided that I'll prove myself and show them, and started working on a new "master plan" of sorts. After dinner, I took all the strength I can muster and practiced for an hour until I was coughing (aunt's house is really dirty and something smells odd) and my back started to hurt (still tense).

I really f----ed up this time. G-d, I want to die. I can't sleep.

Db, I am on some hiatus from taking my time and energy to address your concerns, unless you can muster a sincere and very simple "thank you" for what I have already contributed.

 

Thank you Karli, you don't know how much it means. But maybe you shouldn't be wasting your time on me, no? I'm a hopeless case... This is college all over again. I don't even want to remember.

[m19834]

Thank you Karli, you don't know how much it means. But maybe you shouldn't be wasting your time on me, no? I'm a hopeless case... This is college all over again. I don't even want to remember.

This is nice, but not nearly simple enough.  Please make it as absolutely simple as possible. 

Thank you.

[db05]

This is nice, but not nearly simple enough.  Please make it as absolutely simple as possible. 

Thank you.

 

[m19834]

Perhaps you mean well, but I don't really know because I don't currently speak whatever language this is.  Please speak to me in a language that I can understand.  I would like you to say simply say "thank you".

[db05]

Perhaps you mean well, but I don't really know because I don't currently speak whatever language this is.  Please speak to me in a language that I can understand.  I would like you to say simply say "thank you".

That was the simplest I can do, but if you want to complicate it a little bit...

Thank you.

[m19834]

That was the simplest I can do, but if you want to complicate it a little bit...

Thank you.

I have asked that you say a simple "thank you" and have outlined what I would like.  And, so far, in three posts in response, you have not been willing to do this.  Would you like to try again, or would you rather give up ?

Let me say one more time.  I would like you to say "thank you" ... exactly like that.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[db05]

I have asked that you say a simple "thank you" and have outlined what I would like.  And, so far, in three posts in response, you have not been willing to do this. 

I don't understand. Perhaps we are speaking different languages. I think I've thanked you thrice. Or is it just my imagination? Sorry, I'm not myself lately.

Thank you.

[m19834]

I don't understand. Perhaps we are speaking different languages. I think I've thanked you thrice. Or is it just my imagination? Sorry, I'm not myself lately.

Thank you.

Yes, that's right.  I would like you to speak in a language that I can understand.

I will describe what I have read from you.  Each post has had some explanation of something or other, and at some point a thank you comes into play.  I would like a post with nothing, absolutely nothing, but the words as such : "thank you" or "thank you, Karli".  I am literally putting into quotes what I would like.  So, if there are any other words or symbols within the post, I will simply not understand it because there is too much static involved for me.  I am very old and need things very simple in my old age.

[db05]

Thank you.

[m19834]

You are welcome.

[db05]

I do not understand the need to be so formal. I again become inclined to call you "Ma'am".

It seems even in cyberspace I have difficulty reading people. When confused I follow the golden rule, which may confuse others even more. I guess I don't really belong anywhere and I see I am not welcome here.

[m19834]

Db, you can feel sorry for yourself if you would like to but you have had numerous people responding in numerous ways to you here, and you can accept what people offer to you or not.  I am perfectly aware that you can say words or follow guidelines and have them mean nothing to you, or still find a way to argue after the fact.  That's your choice, but I don't believe it helps you much.  You simply can't be helped until you can focus your posts a little more on what, exactly, it is that you need.  That means that you may be asked something very specific by people, especially if they are trying to respond to you in a way that you can understand.

I think your needs are real.  I think your ability is real.  I think it is very real for you to be able to use them in a way that is fulfilling for you.  But it only matters so much what anybody says or does on your behalf.  And, my guess is, you have a number of people doing a number of things on your behalf.

So, yes, I would like you to have a common courtesy and please not call me something that I have asked you not to.  And, yes, I have asked you to simply thank me instead of kissey faces and long explanations.  If you want to call that "formal" so be it, it doesn't hurt my feelings.  Generally though, I will respond to you only when I think it's actually helpful.

Get used to needing to speak other languages than your own.

[db05]

You simply can't be helped until you can focus your posts a little more on what, exactly, it is that you need.

I don't know what it is exactly. 

I think your needs are real.  I think your ability is real.  I think it is very real for you to be able to use them in a way that is fulfilling for you.  But it only matters so much what anybody says or does on your behalf.  And, my guess is, you have a number of people doing a number of things on your behalf.

I suppose you mean you think I'm real. Thank you for that. The rest of the paragraph I don't understand.

So, yes, I would like you to have a common courtesy and please not call me something that I have asked you not to.  And, yes, I have asked you to simply thank me instead of kissey faces and long explanations.  If you want to call that "formal" so be it, it doesn't hurt my feelings.  Generally though, I will respond to you only when I think it's actually helpful.

Get used to needing to speak other languages than your own.

I didn't mean to be rude, Ma- I mean, Karli. I got confused in figuring out what you want. There are so many ways to say something, and imo that's the beauty of it! I would like to stop being obsessed with doing the right thing now... but there is always the problem of being misunderstood... I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. You may stop responding if you want. I know I'm difficult. 

*sigh* I wonder if anyone here speaks my language.

[m19834]

I don't know what it is exactly.  :-

I suppose you mean you think I'm real. Thank you for that. The rest of the paragraph I don't understand.

I didn't mean to be rude, Ma- I mean, Karli. I got confused in figuring out what you want. There are so many ways to say something, and imo that's the beauty of it! I would like to stop being obsessed with doing the right thing now... but there is always the problem of being misunderstood... I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. You may stop responding if you want. I know I'm difficult. 

*sigh* I wonder if anyone here speaks my language.

Oh, wow, I *think* this post is directed towards me, but unforatunately I can't understand a single bit of it . 

[db05]

Oh, wow, I *think* this post is directed towards me, but unforatunately I can't understand a single bit of it . 

It's okay. Sorry for bothering you.

[m19834]

It's okay. Sorry for bothering you.

You would only bother me if I let you, and I just don't have the energy for that !  I need every bit of it for my own stuff to work out.  In that sense, I am simply limited at the time, though I suspect in 20 yrs. time I could feel quite differently about what seems limiting now.  In any event, accepting limits is such a strange thing.  There is one kind of acceptance that is actually freeing, and another that is not.  I do know that human ability and knowledge is generally limited, and there is only so much that can be humanly discerned.  Whether we are actually limited as a being to human knowledge and ability is another question imo, but something that I aim to work out individually.  I am grateful though for the wonderful morsels that other individuals have learned and gathered and are willing to share with me.  I suspect these things are often very hard-earned.