How to increase practice time

[pianoperformer]

I've been playing the piano for 15 years. I was a music major last semester, and it was amazing, because of the classical training I was receiving. But I tried to increase my practice time too much over the summer, because I was given a rather difficult piano concerto to learn, and I really wanted to master it.

During the semester, I practiced between 3-5 hours per day, usually on the lower end. That's all that is required here.

However, during the summer, I tried to increase to 6-7 or more hours, because I had read that most exceptional pianists practice this much, and I felt like I had to if I wanted to go anywhere as a pianist.

Anyway, long story short, I got overwhelmed, it got tedious, and I quit. I changed my major and forgot about the piano for about 4-5 months. I'm sure my perfectionist tendencies didn't help.

Well about a month ago, I started to come back to it again, obviously because I really missed it. I'm relearning the concerto now, and I really want to get back into music.

I still feel like I should practice a lot, but right now I'm doing between 1.5-2 hours per day, partly because I have finals right now, but also because I just haven't practiced at all for 5 months.

So my question is, how can I increase my practice time without getting overwhelmed? I'm assuming it's because I increased it too quickly. I'd love to be able to practice that much, but I just can't do it all at once right now.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[diabola]

i think 4 hrs max is good enough per day! just seperate the time into 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs at night then you will not be so tired! and concentrate intently so you can learn more things in less time!~

[pianoperformer]

i think 4 hrs max is good enough per day! just seperate the time into 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs at night then you will not be so tired! and concentrate intently so you can learn more things in less time!~

Thanks, but do you really think so? I constantly hear of piano majors practicing 6-8 hours per day.

[allthumbs]

I agree with diabola. Splitting up the total time you practice makes sense to prevent becoming tired and or bored.

If you want to practice more than that, I would also break up each practice session into smaller time segments and take a small break in between of say 5-10 minutes or so to relax, get a drink or snack etc.

Also I would plan what technical or other issues that you would like to tackle in the practice session. Depending on the size of the repertoire you are woking on, you may want to only work on a smaller segment of your repertoire at any one time.

Leave some time to play pieces that don't need any work just for fun at the end of the work session.

allthumbs

[pianoperformer]

I agree with diabola. Splitting up the total time you practice makes sense to prevent becoming tired and or bored.

If you want to practice more than that, I would also break up each practice session into smaller time segments and take a small break in between of say 5-10 minutes or so to relax, get a drink or snack etc.

Also I would plan what technical or other issues that you would like to tackle in the practice session. Depending on the size of the repertoire you are woking on, you may want to only work on a smaller segment of your repertoire at any one time.

Leave some time to play pieces that don't need any work just for fun at the end of the work session.

allthumbs

Thanks. I already do most of that, though I'll have to reintroduce the mini-breaks. I think I used to take a 5-minute break every 30 minutes or so.

But what's the best way to get from what I'm doing now, say between 1.5-2 hours, to 5+ hours? I don't mean all at once, of course, as that'd be horrible.

How gradually should I increase it?

Let's say I make it a point this week to practice two hours per day. How much should I shoot for next week? Maybe two and a half hours?

[franzliszt2]

I think it is personal and depends on the situation.

My practice sessions vary as the day goes on...I usually start early, and practice some technical stuff for about an hour. Then I am usually awake and warmed up...I have to get my mind into gear, as well as my fingers. I find a really good warm-up at the start of day makes me relax becasue I try to focus on relaxation, becasue tension is the cause of most technical problems. After that I do the hard work...learning new notes or practice some passage that troubles me mentally (and usually physically). I do this for as long as it takes...it can take up to a few hours...but it must be done. Don't time yourself, just let the results come natutally without the restrictions of time. Leave it at a point where you think you can achieve no more in that session.

Then have lunch, or whatever, read a book, do something totally different. Then go back, and work on some other passages or piece or whatever.

I usually do things that are purely technical later on in the day, like problems where you have learn all the notes, and sorted out the fingering, and thought the problems through and just need to get it up to speed, or polish it off. I find that my mind does not need to be AS involved as it does when note learning etc...becasue bad habits can really start at the early stages. That is why I do that in the morning, becasue I am fresh and my mind is more active (That is a very personal thing, some people work better at night). Uusally practicing a passage that has been learnt and just needs speeding up doesn't take that much effort if you just practice it everyday and build on it. It's also a nice balance to have....becasue if you follow this advice...the 1st hour will leave your fingers a little tired, after a good work out, but your fingers will not be working much whilst learning notes, your brain will get tired then. Then you practice some difficult passaegs...and NOW you do some more technical stuff, becasue to get things up to speed you have to build it up by playing it faster gradually or by doing technical methods on it.

Again that can take a few hours easily.

Then at the end of the day you can just practice all the bits that are not that problematic, revise some stuff you did before, and...I strongly advise this....play through everything you are working on through at half speed with a score. This is very good for memory.



I'm not saying that this is the only way to practice a lot in one day, but it is an idea. The point is, if you structure things, you will get work done and feel as if you are gettig somewhere.

I think it's a total load of rubbish when people say you have to be 100% focused when you are practicing. It's just not realistic, and if you have a lot of work to do, the whole "4 hours a day is enough" is just stupid. If you are preparing for a competition and you have 3 recital programmes and 2 concerto's to prepare, you simple cannot survive on 4 hours unless you are mega mega prepared a long time in advance.


I don't think you should time yourself strictly though...just divide the day up into section, and if you achieve things faster than you expected then great, you have more free time. If things don't go to plan and something turns out to be harder than expected....it will be a long day 


The biggest sectret about practicing is not how much you practice, but how often you practice. If you practice one passage for 3 hours one day...and leave it for a day or more, it will dissapear. If you practice it for 20 minutes 4 times a day at different times everyday....you will have it mastered in a few days.

[mikey6]

Don't let people come to you and complain about how bad their practice has been though - sortta off putting...

[pianoperformer]

franzliszt2, that was an amazing post. Thank you!

Question: Do you take any days off, or do you do this every day?

Also, do you think I can take on a schedule like this right away without getting burned out? It's been a while since I've practiced that much.

[m19834]

hmmm ... Well, I have gone through a few different lifetimes (it feels like) of thoughts on practicing.  Currently, my day kind of never ends in that regard.  I wake up anywhere from 3-something AM to 5-something AM and get going as soon as possible.  Then I teach, then I practice some more and sometimes the days just all blend together (and sometmes I try to get in some listening while I am falling alseep/sleeping).  This gives me anywhere from 8-10 hours before I teach (sometimes less) as possible practice time, and then sometimes a couple of hours afterwords -- though sometimes I just have downtime in the evenings.  When I look at it in numbers it doesn't seem real, but it is, I think.  I do take breaks in there.

Generally though, I have found that I work a bit better when I don't have a rigid 20-minutes on, 10 minutes off, schedule.  And, I definitely am shifting away from taking breaks every 20 minutes, though sometimes I just have to get up after something short because I can tell I am not concentrating well enough.  That is for two main reasons, 1.  It is easy to get carried away with breaks and take way more than you should and take way more time on them than you should.  2.  I actually need to practice sitting and playing and concentrating for longer amounts of time.  I find that I can get deeper into the music when I sit for longer than 20 minutes in a stint. 

I have though planned my entire life around having this much time to practice.

I have tried to intellectually plan everything out, and take breaks every 20 or so minutes, and have a timer and I have tried to learn my pieces that way.  I can still use my time more efficiently now, I am sure, but I spent a few years trying to build intellectual schedules and didn't learn all that much repertoire in that time.  Of course, more than just my practice schedule has changed since that time though, too.

I went from practicing very little each day about 3 months ago, to what I have described above.  I have had some forced days "off" where I have practiced maybe only a couple of hours, but other than that, aside from a few weekends where I have been somewhere actually studying the piano with a coach, I am not sure I have had a day off altogether.  I could be wrong though.  At this point, I go nearly insane if I can't practice and/or learn something in an intense kind of way at the instrument.  That is actually not an exaggeration either, I am generally very unpleasant to be around anymore .

Of course all of this is pretty individual and depends on what you want to be doing.  I would not say that there is a prescription practice time for how "good" you may want to be.  As far as getting burnt out or not, that depends, too.  Recently I thought that maybe I was, but then I went to see my coach and instead of being burnt out, I got motivated to kick things up a gear.  I guess it depends on what else you have going, to some extent.

Right now, I don't even want to think beyond preparing myself for the next day of practicing and my life as a pianist to start.  Speaking of which ...

My advice to you, just do it !!  .

[pianoperformer]

Karli,

But, why do you practice so much? Do you think you could get the same amount done in less time? That just seems crazy.

That's why I get discouraged, because it seems everyone else is practicing so much, I feel like I can never catch up.

I can see 5, 6, even 7 hours...but 10?

[m19834]

Karli,

But, why do you practice so much?

Well, for one, I am learning a lot (for me) of repertoire, and it simply requires a lot of time.  Also, occasionally I still need to learn something vocal, too.  Though, generally I don't sing much for now anymore.  Aside from those two things, it is a matter of choice.  I have spent about 4 years reading these boards and about 6 years since I graduated from school and I have tried to reason everything out.  I have tried to stick with certain schedules and so far, nothing besides what I am doing in my life right now has *really* worked for me.  It may just be that this is how I work, or perhaps it's just the certain timing in my life right now or so... I don't konw for sure.  In a lot of ways, I am a bit of an all or nothing kinda gal.  However, you could say that I have gone through years and years of some sort of starvation regarding it all, too, so it's like my entire being is just gulping it in.

Along those lines, the way that I learn about piano is not just about piano, it seems.  It somehow involves my entire person, and I am distinctly aware that I must grow as an entire person during this time, and that just takes a lot of space and some time for me.  I need this kind of time to really be me, and some of that -- if not all of it  -- has to do with my own individual life leading up to this point.

Do you think you could get the same amount done in less time? That just seems crazy.

Well, it might be possible theoretically, but I just don't believe in that stuff too much anymore.  I believe only what my fingers and ears are telling me anymore, and I listen to my coach/teacher.  To do the kind of personal growth plus pianistic growth that I sense that I am currently doing, I just don't think it could fit into a particular schedule, and I have almost no desire to try to have it take any less time.  I feel like I would like MORE time during the day.  I just can't seem to get enough for now.

That's why I get discouraged, because it seems everyone else is practicing so much, I feel like I can never catch up.

Well, it can be easy to get discouraged by other people and what they are or are not doing.  The bottom line is finding what works for you and doing that.  I am perfectly aware that there are a number of people on this board who would probably say that my description above is not practical and not the way it "should" be done or could be done.  I am open to suggestions, but in general I just need to do what is working for me. 

Yes, I can be more efficient, but I doubt it would cut hours out of my day because if it did, I would only wish to fill it up with learning that other Beethoven sonata or so.  You see ? 

I can see 5, 6, even 7 hours...but 10?

Well, the thing is, right now I am not even looking.  I am not actually counting, I am just doing.  And then trying to do it better.

[pianoperformer]

Karli,

Thanks for your response. I love the piano, but I have other interests, too, such as programming, and I just don't know if I could spend every moment of the day practicing. I wonder though whether I should want to practice all day.

It's interesting what you say, though.

It sounds like the general consensus is just to do as much as I need to do. I will try that.

How many pieces do you recommend working on at a time? My piano teacher gave me three pieces to learn right now, but should I try something else, too? I really want to expand my repertoire.

[m19834]

Karli,

Thanks for your response. I love the piano, but I have other interests, too, such as programming, and I just don't know if I could spend every moment of the day practicing. I wonder though whether I should want to practice all day.

Well, there's of course lots of things we can wonder about whether or not we "should" be doing.  In some respect, I never know what I "should" be doing when I try to think it through, exactly.  I just reached a point last Spring where I felt like I couldn't keep living my life the way it was going.  I wasn't suicidal or anything like that, but my life just wasn't working and I, as a person, wasn't functioning properly.  So, at some point I didn't have a choice anymore and what I needed to be doing became more clear.  That doesn't mean it's all wrapped up in some kind of pretty bow though.

How many pieces do you recommend working on at a time? My piano teacher gave me three pieces to learn right now, but should I try something else, too? I really want to expand my repertoire.

Well, start with what your teacher has given you.  As far as what I recommend, well, generally a variety is good anyway.

[goldentone]

Right now you're practicing 1.5 to 2 hours a day.  This is what I suggest:  I would add 15 minutes to your base practicing time and see how that sits with you.  Then when you're ready, add another 15.  You can increase your practice time incrementally at a healthy pace without overwhelming yourself.

[franzliszt2]

franzliszt2, that was an amazing post. Thank you!

Question: Do you take any days off, or do you do this every day?

Also, do you think I can take on a schedule like this right away without getting burned out? It's been a while since I've practiced that much.

I take loads of days off. I usually have 1 a week, and just have a day where I do whatever I want to do. I like to vist and art gallery once a week, and that usually takes most of the day. Sometimes if I am not in the mood I will have a day off, and do something else. Of course if I have a concert or performance or something coming up I will practice more.


When you say you want to increase your time....do you get tired physically when you practice for a long time?

[pianoperformer]

Right now you're practicing 1.5 to 2 hours a day.  This is what I suggest:  I would add 15 minutes to your base practicing time and see how that sits with you.  Then when you're ready, add another 15.  You can increase your practice time incrementally at a healthy pace without overwhelming yourself.

Thank you. I really like that idea and will try it.

[pianoperformer]

When you say you want to increase your time....do you get tired physically when you practice for a long time?

Only when I practice a long time at once. My lower back starts to hurt and I have to stand up and stretch. That happens after about an hour and a half of practice right now, probably just because I'm not used to it yet.

Quick off-topic question. I'm going home for Christmas break today, for three weeks. Part of the time every day, I have to practice on my keyboard if I want to get anything done, but then at 6:00 or so at night I can go down to this church to practice on their piano, obviously nicer than a keyboard, for as long as I want (within reason--my mom has to pick me up when I'm done so it can't be that late).

So, what kind of stuff should I practice on the keyboard, and what should I save for the piano? The keyboard is full-size, but the keys are really light to the touch. I'm working on technique (scales and a type of arpeggio of which I don't remember the name), a piano concerto by Saint-Saëns, a piece by Rachmaninoff and one by Scarlatti.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I want to make sure I make decent progress over the break.

[db05]

Only when I practice a long time at once. My lower back starts to hurt and I have to stand up and stretch. That happens after about an hour and a half of practice right now, probably just because I'm not used to it yet.

My guitar teacher highly recommends regular exercise, preferably a gym program. I TRIED to do it, but I would always find reasons not to go: sick, cold/ cough, depressed, busy with schoolwork... but for the time I was going to gym regularly (at least twice a week) my playing was a lot better, and practice more relaxed. Helped me a lot more with piano than guitar though... 

The problem was when I felt a bit sick and the crunches made it worse and I got dizzy... oh, and the time when I was required to do bench press and it was just painful... If you're new to this, you have to have a trainer as it's so easy to go wrong and hurt yourself.

Now I have a cold...  It affects my playing a lot, gets really bad, my playing that is.

[pianoperformer]

My guitar teacher highly recommends regular exercise, preferably a gym program. I TRIED to do it, but I would always find reasons not to go: sick, cold/ cough, depressed, busy with schoolwork... but for the time I was going to gym regularly (at least twice a week) my playing was a lot better, and practice more relaxed. Helped me a lot more with piano than guitar though... 

Interesting! What kind of exercises do you primarily do?

The problem was when I felt a bit sick and the crunches made it worse and I got dizzy... oh, and the time when I was required to do bench press and it was just painful... If you're new to this, you have to have a trainer as it's so easy to go wrong and hurt yourself.

Yeah, I'd have to be careful. I'm not a very active person.

Now I have a cold...  It affects my playing a lot, gets really bad, my playing that is.

I hate colds. I just got over pneumonia though. I couldn't approach a piano then.

Last night, I tried the idea of taking a break after a half an hour, and thought that worked out rather well. There's a regular chair I can sit in during the breaks, so that helps the physical discomfort issue. I felt like I could have gone a while like that, but I started to feel sick so I left after a little over an hour.

[db05]

Interesting! What kind of exercises do you primarily do?

The only mainstay is the cardio, which means biking and treadmill, first 10 mins each then increased gradually. Then abs, legs, chest, arms. Those change every month. change is most interesting and helpful. I've tried karatedo before, and then aerobics, but the routine becomes tedious after a while.

I hate colds. I just got over pneumonia though. I couldn't approach a piano then.

Last night, I tried the idea of taking a break after a half an hour, and thought that worked out rather well. There's a regular chair I can sit in during the breaks, so that helps the physical discomfort issue. I felt like I could have gone a while like that, but I started to feel sick so I left after a little over an hour.

I get that too. Sometimes I'm just feeling a little sick, or pain, but when I practice it's all crap and nothing is happening. Some days I don't practice at all. Nowadays, when I do practice, it's in 30 min chunks. I HAVE to get up and walk after 30 mins, and maybe get a snack/ drink. I want to increase my practice time, too, but I think getting everyday practice consistently is a bigger issue here.

[amelialw]

However, during the summer, I tried to increase to 6-7 or more hours, because I had read that most exceptional pianists practice this much, and I felt like I had to if I wanted to go anywhere as a pianist.

Anyway, long story short, I got overwhelmed, it got tedious, and I quit. I changed my major and forgot about the piano for about 4-5 months. I'm sure my perfectionist tendencies didn't help.

this is not true at all. I remember I watched a video on youtube...umm on pianists&prodigy's etc. it is a well-known video I think it's called"Imagine...being a concert pianist". In one part of the video, a lady professor recomends that students should practice about 4-5 hrs a day and no more then 6.

Before I watched this video, i used to push myself too much, often overdid it and was often tired/worn out and wanted to give up. Now i have followed that given advice and am much happier and I can do better practice. Yes on some days i do feel down or a little depressed but still i always get by now somehow.

Don't push yourself too much and if u increase you're practice time, do it bit by bit

[mike_lang]

I think it is generally better to increase the quality of practice first.  One hindrance I found in my own practice in the past was the tendency to play the same pieces, the same way, each day.  I did not enjoy myself this way - my playing became stale, lost spontaneity, and I became bored.  The more that you enjoy practice (and find things in it to enjoy), the more concentrated you will work in the time you do have, and perhaps you'll want to practice a little longer too.  The greatest advice I can give is that it has to be natural - you will get much more done in your two hours if you enjoy them, than you will by forcing yourself to practice eight hours.

To boot:

M. Pressler practices four hours every morning - he says this forces him to work with laserlike concentration by economizing his work.

A. Watts advises his students to practice no more than four hours daily.

E. Kissin believes (I will not give his phrasing, as it is rather abrasive and unhelpful) that no more than four hours are necessary.

That having been said, I think you will find as many opinions as people on the hours necessary for practice, but that it is UNIVERSALLY agreed that quality trumps quantity.  Have fun!

Best,
ML

[m19834]

I just had to add a few things.  One is that, probably practice schedules will change over time ... over years, I mean.  Of course you will learn as you go how you work best, but that will change a bit, too.  Also, there are different kinds of "worn out" ... there is a good kind, believe it or not.  That is the kind where you have spent your day doing something very challenging and productively, and when you go to bed at night and think back a little over your day, you have a sense of peace in the pit of your soul that you are living a life that is true to yourself.  You can sleep and feel refreshed and inspired in the morning, even on small amounts, despite an outward sense of feeling a bit "worked".  I like my life that way.

How we spend our time and energy is a choice that we make day by day.  We are always investing ourselves into something, even if we believe we are doing nothing.  In some respect, I believe we have an infinite source and I don't think we have to let ourselves be limited by human perception.  However, it is important, I think, to walk that line wisely.  Will my days always be the same ?  No.  But I have goals that just won't go away, and there is only one way they are going to get accomplished.  Speaking of which .

[db05]

I forgot to add that keeping a practice log works wonders. My first piano teachers required a notebook to write assignments in, and later on I was the one assigning myself homework, but I try to be more detailed and include practice dates and times. Even though I use a timer to practice, I still try to make sure that it is goal-oriented and not just counting minutes.

So the first thing would be: brainstorm what you would like to achieve by 5 years, 1 year and the next few months. Write your plans and goals on paper accordingly. Checking back to this list regularly will help keep you motivated and focused.

Then keep a practice log and jot down what works for you and what doesn't. What needs improvement and what you've achieved so far. You might have to adjust your goals to fit your progress. Or just to suit your taste, which changes over time.

Hope this helps.

[jpowell]

When I have periods at home, I spend all day practising (after I've had a rest from travelling).

I split my time between doing:
- really fine tuning on pieces I know well that I will perform soon
- the in-between stages of learning something around memorizing and getting it in one's hands
- revising pieces I know quite well (and have played quite a bit before) and which are coming up soon
- starting or continuing to memorize new pieces
- looking through repertoire that I might consider programming or recording next year.
- and seeing my friends in town.

There's lots of stuff to do and fun to be had. Never a moment's boredom. And if you don't want to do any of the above, just get up from your instrument and do something completely different.

[m19834]

mmmm .... potatoe chips.


Anyway, as it turns out, I have to come back and add a few more things to my plethera of posts.  Firstly, I stated that I had read the forum for about 4 years, and this is true.  But then I made it sound like I have just abandoned everything that I have read and studied during that time, and that is not true.  I literally did put myself on schedule after schedule, and in some ways that was very good for me because I learned a lot about how I work, as well as how to better manage my time and focus in on sections of music that need the most work.  I still do this to a large degree, but I have needed to take the timer away, for example.  In some ways, I put myself on schedules so strictly for a time that there is some kind of internal "clock" in me when it comes to managing my time.  I listen to myself and can more intuitively know when I need breaks and when I don't, and for now I would like to keep it on this level.

I also still use "tools" in terms of learning a section or a passage.  I go through a process that was once more rigid than it is now, and I suspect it will at some point fall to being completely intuitve.  Most of my practicing is in sections with very specific goals in mind.  I don't start my day aiming to practice for 10 hours, I start my day aiming to get the tasks in all of my pieces done, and it basically takes absolutely all the time and energy I can possibly give it ... hence the hours.

Bye bye for now !

[furtwaengler]

Karli, how on earth do you find time to make such wonderful, elaborate, and thoughtful contributions to this website with your schedule? I do think you are a deeper thinker than I, but more so, it seems like it flows out of you. I’d have to sit down and think and proofread for a long time to approach what you seem to express and type up in a minute.

And may I ask what it is, the program you are working on? I’m curious and love looking at programs. 

[db05]

Karli, how on earth do you find time to make such wonderful, elaborate, and thoughtful contributions to this website with your schedule? I do think you are a deeper thinker than I, but more so, it seems like it flows out of you. I’d have to sit down and think and proofread for a long time to approach what you seem to express and type up in a minute.

I second the question.

[mike_lang]

Karli, how on earth do you find time to make such wonderful, elaborate, and thoughtful contributions to this website with your schedule?

I imagine it is because she is always thinking, rather than thinking only when externally compelled.

[m19834]

hmmm ... well, you guys are generous and I appreciate it . 

First, let me literally describe my life to you :

1.  Sleep/eat/do some small chores around the house
2.  Practice -- go to see my coach/teacher/mentor once a month
3.  Teach (and I have three days of no teaching at all)
4.  Have a few smallish singing gigs

That is literally how far down I have condensed my life.  I don't have children of my own, either, which can make a pretty big difference.  I sometimes don't actually go outside for ... who knows how long ?  We have a few friends, and one main couple that we spend some time with here and there, but other than that, my main social life and outlet is here.  And, as I described above, I do take breaks, like right now !

Let's see, my program (though I don't know if I would put all of this together)

Chopin :  Prelude in b minor, Op 28, no 6
Grieg :  "Album Leaf" lyric piece from an Opus I can't remember right now.
Czerny :  Two studies from School of Velocity
JS Bach :  Prelude and Fugue in g minor, WTC BK I
Beethoven :  Op 57, Appassionata
(Beethoven, Op 90 -- if I can ... sorry, mentally it's just sitting on the horizon )
Schumann :  Theme and variations on the name "ABEGG"

and then I do have some vocal stuff I need to be working up, too.

[pianoperformer]

Thanks everyone! My email notifications stopped for some reason, which is why I haven't been in this thread for a few days.

Karli, thanks so much for your replies.

I find it interesting what you say about tasks. I just thinking of the pieces I have to practice as several sections that I need to improve, and not as tasks that can be completed, so to speak.

For instance, I’ll usually pick out two sections I’m having trouble on, that are somewhat close in proximity to each other in the piece, and alternate between them, a few minutes on one, a few minutes on the other. I just try to improve them. Then when I start making stupid mistakes on one, or just get tired of it, I practice it slowly through a couple of times and move on.

But it’s not time sensitive. I could spend an hour doing this, or three hours. Of course, if I made it a goal to get through every section I was having trouble with, then that’d probably take a while. Should I do something like that?

I’m a little disappointed. I tried to make my practice schedule for the practice rooms next semester, but I’m only allowed to select three hours a day. I was embarrassed, because I initially selected quite a bit more than that. I told him (the chair of the piano dept) that I felt like it wasn’t enough.

[m19834]

Karli, thanks so much for your replies.

You're quite welcome .

I find it interesting what you say about tasks. I just thinking of the pieces I have to practice as several sections that I need to improve, and not as tasks that can be completed, so to speak.

Yes, I find that it's important and extremely helpful to think in terms of tasks or so.  At the least, it's more efficient to think in terms of goals, and here is a place that I think is ever-evolving in a few ways :

1.  Recognizing what the task/goal is/should be, and knowing when you have achieved it.
2.  Having some sense of your personal ability to complete it satisfactorily for the day, including how much time it's going to take you to do it.
3.  Knowing where that leads and how it fits into the big picture (of the piece, of the body of repertoire in general, you name it).

Your ability to do all of those things is (hopefully) going to be improving the more you do them.  So, in a sense, learning a piece becomes not as much a matter of being "talented" in some ethereal or mystical sense, but rather one's ability to recognize, focus in on, and do those things above.  That is going to be different for everybody for a number of different reasons.  I personally learned a lot about how I function in that area by putting myself on schedules, but when I first started, it was something like "okay, I have here such and such a piece and I have 20 mins to get something done.  When breaking it down into smaller portions, how much can I really get accomplished in 20 minutes ?", for example.  I learned a lot about myself this way, but I am still learning for sure because I personally feel that, for a few reasons, what I am truly capable of is just beginning to find its way.  My overall goal though is to pick up a piece of music and be capable of identifying nearly instantly, exactly what it will take for me to learn it ...

Teachers can be invaluable in helping the individual in all of those areas as I listed above. 

But it’s not time sensitive. I could spend an hour doing this, or three hours. Of course, if I made it a goal to get through every section I was having trouble with, then that’d probably take a while. Should I do something like that?

Well, I think that what is more important than "time-sensitivity" is "task-sensitivity" in that you know when you have "completed" something for the day.  In that sense, I have found that there is a lot of useful information here on the board to help in guiding that, but the key element for me has been to develop/learn a specific process of learning that I know will get me some kind of concrete results (something I can consistently rely on).  However, I expect that to evolve, too.

For me personally to take a piece and know exactly how to break it down and to know exactly how long it's going to take me to complete the tasks and so on, if I am truly capable of that, it's not currently something I could even attempt to put into words.  Right now it is all happening in some other consciousness for me because the whole thing is very deep.  However, I think there is an overall simplicity to the process of learning a piece, as well as the actual making of music, too.  And, I think it is helpful to have the leading thought when approaching a piece to be a sense of discoverng how the process can be dealt with more simply/efficiently ... without robbing from the integrity of the goal.  There is seemingly a fine line between efficiently going about making music vs. cutting corners in the musical concept and process of learning.  In short, you want to be sure that the musical goal is always in mind and that no matter how simple and efficient your process of learning may be, your goal is still being achieved.  Teachers can also be invaluable in this area.

I felt like it wasn’t enough.

Well, how do you know it's not enough ?  I would start with what you can get and see what you can do in that time.  In that regard, what Michael says here is a good idea :

I think it is generally better to increase the quality of practice first. 

(...)

I think you will find as many opinions as people on the hours necessary for practice, but that it is UNIVERSALLY agreed that quality trumps quantity.  Have fun!

Best,
ML

In some sense, I think it can be a good idea to have a time limit because it can force you to think more focusedly.  That is not necessarily true for everybody and it's not necessarily true in all cases of one individual though.  At some points the stricter time limits may be helpful towards the cause, and then at other points they may not be. 

In any respect, I think the only thing that is more important than truly inhabiting the musical substance of the activities we do at the instrument, is to truly inhabit yourself and your quality of living.  Those things are in a sense "one" no matter what, but they are not always in sync with each other.  In some way we are always chisiling out, with each endeavor, who we are.  But, similarly to how sculptor may think of a piece of stone, I believe there is already a shape or figure in there just waiting to be revealed.  Of course, an individual piece of music is very similar.

[pianoperformer]

Karli,

Can you give an example of what kind of tasks you would set for the day, or for a practice session?

Let’s say I have several measures on some page of the piece that I’m having difficulty with. I have trouble with speed, and tripping over some of the notes. How would you break this down into tasks you can accomplish?

I think having tasks to complete, and completing them, would make me feel a lot better, because this piece is huge and rather intimidating.

[m19834]

Karli,

Can you give an example of what kind of tasks you would set for the day, or for a practice session?

Well, I have two main goals at the time :

1.  Get the piece into my fingers/body/mind, so that when I take it to my mentor, we have something to work with.

2.  Listen to my teacher and do what he is asking of me to do.

I have a number of papers full of what we talked about for each piece, and right now those are my guidelines in terms of how to approach my pieces both physically as well as in concept.  I accept it is an evolving process, but I am working to not accept excuses and laziness for myself, just because I know that this is a process which will require time.  So, what my tasks are during my practice session are going to vary, of course, from piece to piece but also, depending on what I have to be overcoming personally, too.

As far as getting a piece into my fingers to take to him, I do have a process which builds on itself.  I will only say rather broadly at the time that this is section by section, chunk by chunk, and it builds on itself from day to day, and most of that is in my head for better or for worse.  There is a certain level of impracticality about spending hours each day, which is what it would take me, to sit and write out what I am supposed to be doing practice-wise, when right now I am still just needing to take my very basic learning process to large portions of my larger works.

Let’s say I have several measures on some page of the piece that I’m having difficulty with. I have trouble with speed, and tripping over some of the notes. How would you break this down into tasks you can accomplish?

Well, the thing is, I don't know why you, personally, are having trouble with speed, and I don't know the specific passage.  There are some practice tricks for speed playing here on the forum and I think in Chang's book, but it could even be something very psychological (like that one time your grandma looked at you funny because you ran fast down the hallway ... you know), or something like your center of gravity being too high in you body.

I think having tasks to complete, and completing them, would make me feel a lot better, because this piece is huge and rather intimidating.

Yes, but for me personally, if I sit down with a big work, like an entire sonata, and try to have my very first step be to go through and add up all of the different tasks that I need to do in order to have it completed is a bit much.  Firstly, I don't know enough about the music and myself to do that, secondly, at this point, I would probably get overwhelmed if all of those tasks were set before me at once and my job was to just begin.  That is why I think to some extent, it must be done day by day and must build on what was accomplished the day before.

Okay, bye bye for now, I may be back ! 

[m19834]

Okay, pianoperformer, after living with myself all day long and the things that I have posted here, I have decided that I need to restart a practice journal and restructure my practice time a bit  .  It hurts my head a little and makes me pretty angry, but maybe I am just being lazy and making excuses for myself if I don't do it ?  Perhaps I should make a schedule for my practice schedule and a journal for my practice journal ? 

I will let you know how it goes, since you and your thread reinspired me .

[pianoperformer]

Sounds good, Karli!

I might start a practice journal, too. I had a major breakthrough yesterday. I was having trouble with the run in the beginning of the piano concerto I’m learning; the left hand wouldn’t go fast enough while descending in the first 16 notes or so. Well yesterday, I did a few things, like playing the same notes in the right hand, and then in the left, playing them at the same time, and one after the other. I tried playing softly and loudly.

And something clicked and it worked, and I could go a lot faster, and it was a lot cleaner.

I want to write things like this down, to see in the future.

Now if only that arpeggio would click in the same way.

Let me know how your practice schedule overhaul goes.

[m19834]

Yes, that sounds good, pianoperformer ! 

Well, my practice schedule "overhaul" turns out to not actually be much of an overhaul.  I have a very basic log where I keep track of what I practiced for the day in the form of a spreadsheet (occasionally I actually can't remember if I had practiced something "today" or if I am just remembering yesterday ... as I said, the days blend together  :-).  So, I have the names of my pieces, as well as separate movements on the left, and then the dates of the month on the top.  Then there is a corresponding box that I put a number in to help me see what order I have practiced my pieces in for the day.  I always start with the Czernys, but after that I may spend a few days on a particular piece or movement as my second selection, but I like to change it up, too.

Then, I basically kept some papers as a journal next to me on the music rack and I thought it was going to be a lot tougher than it was, but basically all I have done is started putting down in my particular short-hand, what has been riding around in my head.  So, as I said earlier, it has all been there in my head (probably getting into the way, actually), but I noticed distinctly that when I wrote it out on the paper, my head become more clear, I became more calm, and my practice became more focused.  So far I am not shaving off so much as a minute in my immediate practice time by doing this, but perhaps it will shave actual days off the overall learning process in the end.

Cheers !

[a-sharp]

I agree with max of 3-5.

Practice has to be focused and goal-oriented to be the most effective - and your brain needs breaks in order to function properly (as do your hands).

When you sit down to practice - try to have a goal in mind for a particular segment of time.

I would personally *not* focus on speed... speed comes after the mechanics start to feel natural - I think we all (myself included) try to force speed too quickly. We're anxious to get the piece up to 'performance tempo' ...

As K said - a time limit can be helpful. I don't typically *choose* to set a time limit on my practicing - life tends to do that for me. ... But I find when I know I've only got a 2 hr or less window, I tend to get more done. Especially if I've got a lesson or a performance coming up. That is always "motivating."

Good luck. It's a challenge to balance it all and still feel like we're making music.

[kapenta87]

The best way to proceed is to listen to your body!  You need to be in-tune with yourself and be able to feel when you have pushed yourself enough.

To start, you have to practise in blocks to enable you to step back into the comfort zone:

30mins
break
30mins
break ... etc.

once you're good with that, do 40 mins before having a break, but thats the limit.

As an advanced pianist, and to really gain results, you should be doing a total of 4 hours practice a day (the ACTUAL practice time - not including breaks! So if you do 4 hours:  thats 6 lots of 40 mins, with a 10-20 minute break in between each one.), with an aim of moving up to 5 hours a day.

Ideally, this should be done as 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon, then when you are doing 5 hours practice - make it 3 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon.

A really good way of making progress (people agree and disagree on this one, but you have to find out what works for yourself) is to allocate a target to each 40 minute period.  Set your alarm for 40 mins and when it goes off, STOP - don't continue and don't work on that part again that day/that session.  No matter how much more you think you need to work on it, you have completed your allocated time and need to move on.  Come back to it the next day.

So for example:

1st 40mins = learn the notes of a new piece till the bottom of the page/to a certain point
BREAK
2nd 40mins = focus on the 8 bars in 3rd movement of Beethoven Sonata that you've having trouble with
BREAK
3rd 40mins = work on the octave jumps in the Beethoven sonata that aren't very good yet
BREAK
4th 40mins = work on the ending of the Liszt Consolation
BREAK ... etc

The most important thing is to find a balance between pushing yourself and going to far - if you start to feel any tension or strain, ou need to stop - even if your 40 minutes isn't up!
Good Luck!
x

[pianoperformer]

kapenta87, wow, that's a great response. Thank you!

My only concern is that it might be detrimental to work on a single part for 40 minutes, depending on how small the part is. For instance if I'm having trouble with a few measures, I usually go until I start making stupid mistakes I wouldn't usually make, which is my sign I'm overpracticing it. For a small part, I usually put a limit of 10 minutes.

Just my personal experience. Otherwise, that's great advice, and I'll try to adopt it.

[rachfan]

The AMOUNT of practice time invested in repertoire has little to do, ultimately, with success in performing it.  Rather, what counts far more is the QUALITY of time spent, however limited it may be.  The key then, before even sitting at the piano, is to have in mind a specific practice strategy for that session.  Having a plan ensures that time will be used efficiently and effectively.  For example, if three pieces are scheduled for a two-hour slot, the plan for the first piece might be:

Goals: 1) Play the LH alone a few times to ensure the many ties there are being held for their full values;  2) Do technical drills on two short cadenzas in the RH.  3) Use the metronome to help straighten out unusual rhythmic patterns on page 2.

For the second piece:

Goals: 1) Work on voicing of top notes in sequential octaves and chords to better project the melodic line;  2) Choreograph the wrists and hands to resolve an awkward clash on page 3, and to smooth out that passage for both hands;  3) Practice RH leaps in the coda to make them more secure.

For the third piece:

Goal: Polish nuances throughout the piece and the timing and expression of the climax.

This focused approach makes the most of every minute and second available. The other point I would make is that in practicing, deep concentration is everything.  While it's imperative that the pianist listen to each and every note to verify whether or not aims are being achieved, it's even more imperative that he/she hears those notes!  Once concentration loses its grip and spurious thoughts enter the mind, then errors begin creeping into practicing and it's time to leave the piano and do something else. 
       

[goldentone]

Excellent post, Rachfan!

[lostinidlewonder]

To my students who study piano full time I am always concerned about the quality of time, as rachfan mentioned. Generally if anything becomes difficult to understand or memorize there is something missing in your experience at the piano that encourages this. I tell all my advanced students to take stock of what troubles them then we consider it in the lesson and try to determine why it causes that slight inefficiency in learning.

This can be understood by sight reading the entire score both hands immediately. Tempo is irrelevant what is important is that you are using the correct fingers and can overall feel how the hand will control the group of notes and where it moves to from there. I usually have a red pencil to put a line near sections that cause trouble after numerous sight reading trials of the entire score. Maybe after 5 or so complete reading trials we find particular parts where we constantly muck up or get lost, these must be highlighted. There are of course certain parts which we make mistakes however know that we can do it with a little more repetition, these do not have to be highlighted out so much. We really want to identify parts which feel like a speed bump in our ability to sight the piece.

This requires that all that consider studying piano full time have a sight reading standard that allows them to identify which parts of the score cause them strife. If you have poor sight reading skills then this procedure is long and drawn out and thus the quality of time you spend studying your pieces falls. If we find we are spending a lot of time identifying the ground in which our technique/fingers must exist upon in the desired piece, then we must encourage our sight reading abilities which will act as an overall catalyst to our present and future progress.

Instead of measuring your progress in units of minutes or hours, measure it in bars per day learnt, or set yourself way points in the score where you desire to be.

[term]

Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive. There is a balance between those: You can be very focused and make quick progress, but it will be exhausting and you can't do it for long; - or you practise for hours and don't make progress. If you want to increase practise time, make sure you actually use the time you spent at the piano to the maximum. If you don't, then reduce practise time. The end result is the measurement and the only thing that counts. Practise time alone means nothing. You may find yourself struggling much more with doing something efficiently rather than going through endless hours of repetitions wasting your time.

[mike_lang]

Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive.

I could not agree more, but for many, they ARE, if you mean quality of time spent and quantity of time spent.  Either one spends an intense, laser-focused half hour at the piano working toward complete mastery of a passage, or one becomes for hours on end an auto-repetiteur to a singer who is not paying attention. 

I believe it was J. Lhevinne who said, "If there is a single note which you do not hear, do not think you have been practicing." 

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a vast amount of repetitions or hours of practice, but to quote one more, Mr. Shakespeare said: "Words without thoughts never to heaven go."  To practice for hours on end or to repeat a passage hundreds of times is to tempt the devil, but if the concentration can be maintained, then we will have marvelous results.  The biggest challenge to the artist is to maintain for several hours the concentration which any fool can maintain for five minutes.  Piano playing, the craft, can be done in short periods of time with impeccable efficiency, but pianism, the art, should be done for long periods of time each day, with the same amount of efficiency, or rather, concentration.  Should not the artist who wishes to remain continuously mentally present on stage for a program of an hour and a half, or even two hours, be able to maintain this state for a much longer time than this in practice? 

Is it a symptom of this age in which many recordings are studio recordings that have been spliced an unholy amount of times, with grafts from the countless takes, semi-takes, hemi-semi-takes, etc., that no one can any longer hold on for an entire hour, or four, or eight, or however long it takes to produce what is necessary, with a consistency of quality?