F-sharp double sharp in Moonlight Sonata measure 188

[marsippius]

Hi Everybody
OK, I been studying the first note of measure 188 of
Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, third movement.

The note in question is in the position of F below the base.
It is sharped in the key signature, and is accidentalized
with a double-sharp marking.

I listened to two examples of this note being played.
In each case, the note in measure 188 sounds different
from the bottom-line G in measure 189.
The two performers were William Kempf and Daniel
Barenboim, as found online.

What is the correct note to be played in measure 188?
a. __  G -- the white note between the first and second
black notes in the group of three black notes; or,
b. __  G-sharp -- the second black note in the group of
three black notes.
c. __  It depends.
d. __ Some other answer (specify).

Thanks!
m

[mad_max2024]

I'm a bit confused.
Measure 188 in my edition has a single F double sharp octave resolving into a Gsharp octave in the following measure before returning to tempo I.

If that's it I would definitely play F double sharp.

If it says Fx it's probably F double sharp regardless of the F being sharped in the key sig.

btw F double sharp is played in the same piano key as G if you are wondering that.

[marsippius]

>> Measure 188 in my edition has a single F double sharp octave resolving into a Gsharp octave in the following measure before returning to tempo I. <<

Precisely, yes; that zeroes in on it.

It is as though the note being double sharped is
considered from standpoint of key of C-major, then
modified.

This question arises because sometimes, a note that
is sharped in the key signature, and accidentalized with
a double sharp marking, is raised two semitones.

An example is in the first movement, measure 34, second note, right hand.
In this instance, the note to be played is G-sharp, though it is written
Fx.

I am afraid I do not understand the philosophy as to why, in the first movement,
the note is different from the same (with tiny differences) note in the
third movement.

Thanks for answers.
m

[pianowolfi]

>> Measure 188 in my edition has a single F double sharp octave resolving into a Gsharp octave in the following measure before returning to tempo I. <<


This question arises because sometimes, a note that
is sharped in the key signature, and accidentalized with
a double sharp marking, is raised two semitones.

An example is in the first movement, measure 34, second note, right hand.
In this instance, the note to be played is G-sharp, though it is written
Fx.

It's played Fx and it's not played G sharp. Double sharp remains double sharp and doesn't go up three semitones.

[mad_max2024]

It is as though the note being double sharped is
considered from standpoint of key of C-major, then
modified.

Don't see the C major relation.
I think it's a passing note. An embellishment lowering the G sharps it's between by a semitone.
Scale used there looks like C# minor harmonic to me ending in G# that is embellished by sort of a long mordent if you will, lowering to Fx then going back to G#

This question arises because sometimes, a note that
is sharped in the key signature, and accidentalized with
a double sharp marking, is raised two semitones.

An example is in the first movement, measure 34, second note, right hand.
In this instance, the note to be played is G-sharp, though it is written
Fx.

I'm always reluctanct to say something never happens in music but I'm pretty sure the note in measure 24 mov1 is also Fx.
C#-E-Fx-A# make a fully diminished chord.
Harmony comes from the tonic C#minor on measure 33, then piles up more tension by fully diminished chord arpeggios before slowly resolving into the dominant G#major in measure 38 and then resolving further into the tonic at measure 42 after a series of harmonic changes which I'm too lazy to figure out right now.

At least that's the way I see it, hope I got it right.

[pianowolfi]

Harmony comes from the tonic C#minor on measure 33, then piles up more tension by fully diminished chord arpeggios before slowly resolving into the dominant G#major in measure 38 and then resolving further into the tonic at measure 42 after a series of harmonic changes which I'm too lazy to figure out right now.

At least that's the way I see it, hope I got it right.

Yeah you got it right.

[mad_max2024]

Yeah you got it right.

yeeeeey

[richard black]

But triple sharps do exist. I've come across them in Reicha, Reger and Alan Bush - all three very theory-minded composers!

[j.s. bach the 534th]

The chord in measure 188 is an F-double-sharp (the white key G), and the chord in measure 189 is a G-sharp, as dictated by the key signature. The double-sharp on the F does not stack with the sharp in the key signature.

[mimita]

Hello
  I am a beginning pianist and was wondering if there is any advice that someone could give me for learning the notes of the left hand. I can play chords and other things on my left hand but I just have a hard time reading the notes. I used to play clarinet and took about five years of private lessons. So all I really learned was the top(right hand) music.
  I was also wondering what is a cliche and how do you use it?

[pianisten1989]

Practise...

[djealnla]

  I was also wondering what is a cliche and how do you use it?

I assume you mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliché

[pianowolfi]

Practise...

Sure. But first think! Practising is worthless without thinking.