Richard Black's signiture

[communist]

on it he tells us to discuss "Instrumentalists are wannabe singers" so lets do such.

[m19834]

Everytime I see his signature, I think about this subject (and I think about it anyway), and I think how sometime I should start the topic ... but I never do !  So, now you have .

Okay.  Since I am actually a singer, too, and have before me some options of how much I would like to pursue this possibility of singing professionally, this is something that I think a lot about.  Some parts of it are very strange.  People, singers and those whom consider themselves non-singers alike, seem to enjoy saying that singing is the most "you" a person can get when it comes to expressing music, and that this is somehow the draw to it ... and as though every other instrument is supposed to be somehow mimicking the singing voice.  Maybe.  I mean, of course singing is a helpful tool when it comes to particular aspects of expressing music, and the carryover from singing to instrument playing can be pertinent.

But, in terms of how it all sits within me personally, there is somehow something more personal in my own experience anyway with expressing myself pianistically.  I feel more "naked" in some ways when I play than when I sing (maybe that is not true altogether ).  I admit, it's fun to sing ... and it is a little mind-blowing to think that a person can make some of the sounds a person can make through singing.  But, at the same time, even though you can do things like bend pitch and feel the music in you in certain ways (a lot of which can also be felt when playing the piano), the piano has more expressive possbilities still, I think.  Just the range of the piano, for one, is greater than a single voice.  And the percussive aspects of the piano can't be mimicked in 'singing' per se, though of course they can be mimicked in some sense by the human voice ... but I don't think it's used all that much in most Classical singing. 

Also, while singers have a lot of repertoire to choose from and of course it covers all of the eras, the actual substance of the music is not as varied.  In general, a singer basically has either legato lines (some longer than others) or recitative.  That's nice, sure, but it's nothing compared to the difference between playing Bach vs. Rachmaninov, for example, with your own "two hands."  There is just way more detail in playing, I think.

I admit though, some part of me, as a pianist, wants to feel like I am singing with the piano.  But, I specifically want to do that with the PIANO, and in some ways, I guess I have at times.  I think some people in the world are perfectly happy being "only" singers, and they are perfectly happy to live in their own singing world, believing it's the most difficult thing to do on the face of the earth, but I think there are many singers who would actually just love to be pianists, too.

I don't want to lose my voice, but when it comes to making music, I think life without my hands would be a much more difficult loss for me personally.  Maybe I am taking it for granted though and just have a lot more to discover, I don't know.
 
Well, that was a bit of a ramble, but I thought I would quickly respond anyway, and then head back to the piano .

[communist]

Everytime I see his signature, I think about this subject (and I think about it anyway), and I think how sometime I should start the topic ... but I never do !  So, now you have .

ya i always tell myself i will start a topic but i never did

[G.W.K]

"Instrumentalists are wannabe singers"

I disagree. I mean, isn't he basically saying that all muscians that don't sing, want to? It's a stupid observation, in my opinion.

G.W.K

[m19834]

I mean, isn't he basically saying that all muscians that don't sing, want to?
G.W.K

Well, who knows for sure  .  But, it's not like he made up the concept .  Anyway, I guess it can be taken in different ways.  In a way, it could mean that every instrumentalist wants to basically feel like they are singing with the instrument, which might be true.  But at the same time, if it is taken literally as though "singing" means "vocalist" then the idea is that singing is the highest expression of making music, the closest a person can get to making music, the most "you."  Which, in different forms, I have heard from hoards of people and from different sources.

When I say I want to "sing" with the piano, it's not really even 'singing' per se, it's that I would like to feel at one with it, and express whatever it is that I have to say with it.  I don't care what a person calls that, I just want to experience that.  And, if we take that as "singing," well, that assumes a lot I guess, if you think of singing as vocalizing.  Not all vocalists feel at one with their instrument.  And, even if they do, while it's a fun form of exrpession, it's not necessarily the "highest" form of expressing music, in my humble opinion. 

[G.W.K]

You've lost me now, Karli! LOL

G.W.K

[m19834]

You've lost me now, Karli! LOL

G.W.K

Okay .  Well, not sure what to do about that unless you ask a question that I can try to answer  .  Otherwise, I guess we'll just leave it as such.

[communist]

I disagree. I mean, isn't he basically saying that all muscians that don't sing, want to? It's a stupid observation, in my opinion.

G.W.K

well maybe they do

[G.W.K]

well maybe they do

I do not.

G.W.K

[communist]

I do not.

G.W.K
[/quote/]


but are you normal? i think we all know the answer 

[G.W.K]

but are you normal? i think we all know the answer 

I'm normal...it's everyone else who is mad. (Stole someone's signature there...LOL)

G.W.K

[richard black]

Just to clarify - my intention in that tag line was to suggest that music began with singing, singing is the highest form of musical art, and instrumentalists aspire to produce something as beautiful and communicative as singing.

No, I don't claim I'm the first person to suggest this (not by a long chalk) and no, I don't expect everyone to agree. But I'm flattered it's generated a thread

By the way, signature has one i and one a. Once a pedant, always a pedant...

[db05]

Instrumentalists are wannabe singers, drummers, or both:

Original Instruments
Going Back To Our Roots

If we think about it, there's really two original instruments. The drum, and the voice. We close our eyes, and picture the caveman dancing around the fire, beating a drum, and howling...

Singer Stats

Singers, generally speaking, do not:
Try to play things as fast as possible
Try to play things extra complicated (unless we're talking about Mary
Poppins singing Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious, the vocal version of sweep picking.) But do you want to be like Julie Andrews?
Try to cram in as many words as possible.
Try to use the biggest word possible. (“A fuchsia nebulousness appears to be in my cranium...no! It's “Purple haze, all in my brain!” )

Singers, generally speaking, DO:
emphasize melody
emphasize tone
use dynamics (sing loud and soft.)...

Since guitars (pianos, too - just replace "guitar" with "piano") can span the gap between melody and rhythm, we can incorporate both of the original instruments into our playing to great effect.

Playing in a funk/dance band really made me appreciate the rhythmic role of the guitar in certain settings. Muted strings, wah wah pedals, and picking dynamics can all contribute to the percussive aspect of our instrument.

Practicing with a drum machine, or at the very least, a metronome, is vital. However, thinking like a drummer is even better. For a crazy project, get a book with drum exercises or rudiments, and try to apply them to your guitar...

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/general_music/original_instruments.html
(It's a fun little article, but takes much time to load.  )

They're wannabe conductors or composers, too. But that's for another time.

[pianistimo]

Most pianists are terrible singers.  Case in point: Glen Gould was definately a 'wannabe' singer. 

Who would listen to Brahms sing?  And, yet, he creates as singable of lines in some of his pieces as Schubert.  Now, Schubert was a misplaced pianist.  He was actually probably like Haydn and should have been categorized as a vocalist first above pianist.  They could create much for voice but talk about indecent piano writing.

Try getting a conductor to dance.  When you stand all day on a podium and have to keep your movements to three or four square meters and all in the arms - do you think his legs will move?  Now, ask a pianist to sing.  Or, better yet - ask a pianist to do ANYTHINg except play the piano.

[richard black]

ask a pianist to do ANYTHINg except play the piano.

I happen to have a great talent for making tea

[thalbergmad]

I have a great talent for drinking it

[richard black]

Darling, I never knew you cared.