Digital Pianos

[pianoperformer]

I used to have a digital piano, but we sold it a few years ago, and now I have a keyboard that I hate. It's full-sized, but the keys are way too light, and the stand shakes when I play with any decent force.

I really need something though, especially for when I'm at home, since I have no acoustic at home. At college, of course, I have access to the practice rooms, which have Steinway baby grands.

So I wanted to see what recommendations you have for digitals.

I'm saying digital because I'm assuming they are cheaper than an acoustic, plus it might be useful to be able to put headphones in.

I need something that is as close to possible to the feel of an acoustic. Of course it'll never be the same, I know.

I'm looking for a good balance between quality and price. I'm on disability so can't afford that much unless I save for quite a while, and I don't have enough credit history yet to get anything on credit. My mother really can't afford it, either, though I'm sure she'd help.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[cmg]

No criticism meant, but this forum does not regard digital pianos very highly.  I may be the lone advocate of them.  I'm not saying they are superior to acoustics (unless you have a tub of an instrument and there are many acoustics like this), but as a perfectly good substitute for a good acoustic, the higher-end models can't be beat.  I'd much rather practice on one of them than some piece of acoustic crap.

I have a Kawai Professsional Stage Piano.  I chose it for its wooden keys, weighted action that mimics a concert grand, and its advanced polyphony.  Essentially that means it is programmed to accommodate many notes simultaneously sustained with the pedal for a nearly natural period of time.   It is in this area alone, in my opionion, that the digitals have a drawback.  But even that is easy to overlook when you use the instrument as a substittute for an acoustic grand.  Yes, a GOOD grand is optimal, but my neighbors for one, don't want to hear mine.  So, I have the digital.  With headphones on, the sound is extrodinary.  Mine is set on "Concert Grand" in a large hall.  I love it.  The speakers that come with digitals are next to useless.  I always use headphones and, for me, this is the point of my instrument -- great sound that no one but me can hear.

I've played many so-called high-end acoustic pianos.  I remember in conservatory that most of the Steinways used in practice rooms were dull instruments with little character.  Some were almost impossible to voice chords on.  The Baldwins were diasters.  The Mason & Hamlins were often better, but, still, any instrument pounded to death by hundreds of students, turns into a tub.  Only the teaching studios had fine instruments -- all 7-foot Steinways beautifully maintained.  Our recital instruments were 9-foot Steinways and Bosendorfers -- also, beautifully maintained.  But the beautifully maintained instruments were NOT our practice instruments.  I learned many great pieces on pianos that should have been used for firewood. I would have given anything for the digitals around today.

The point I'm trying to make is that an acoustic piano, by definition, is NOT necessarily superior to a good top-of-the-line digital.  And a good digital stage piano (without the stupid furniture tacked onto it) goes for at least $2,000.  But it's worth it.  You never need to tune it and regulation is infrequent and easily done.

Okay, this is my biased opinion.  If you want a really good on-going discussion of digitals, go online to the Forums at Piano World.  I've inserted the link to the Digital and Synth discussions.  These folks really know their stuff and will answer any of your more technical questions that are beyond me.  Let me know if the link doesn't work for you and I''ll help out.

The link:  https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/forum/6.html   

[pianoperformer]

cmg,

Thanks a lot for the post.

Well, I figure that for the price I can afford, a good digital will be a lot better than a used or low-end acoustic. Perhaps someone can tell m eif I'm wrong on that.

When you give the $2,000 price, what do you mean by "without the stupid furniture tacked onto it"? If you mean the extra bells and whistles, so to speak, extra sounds and advanced recording, I don't need any of that.

The pianos in the practice rooms honestly aren't that bad, I don't think. They're a lot better than anything I have access to at home, anyway. I either get my keyboard, or this piano in a church, whose lower registers blur together, and one of the G's stick. At college, they seem to tune the practice pianos regularly.

Thanks for the link, but I don't know much about the technical aspects, either. That's why I'm searching for recommendations. I'll check it out anyway, though, to see what I can find out.

For anyone who can answer here, I guess I'm looking at between a $1,000-2,000 price range, just to be a little more concrete, though the lower the better. I guess I'm asking what brand I should be looking for.

My old digital was a Roland, and wasn't all that bad. I can't remember how much that one was, though.

[pianoperformer]

Wow, nevermind, that link you gave, cmg, is enough to answer all my questions. I'm going to go look for what I need soon, then.

Hopefully it doesn't get too expensive. I'd love to get something by next summer.

[a-sharp]

My suggestion - if you are set on a digital - rather than perhpas the idea of renting an upright (is that an option at all?) - is to do lots of research - then see if you can find one of the digital pianos that are on your "approved" list on Craigslist. People are selling stuff there all the time - decent stuff - simply b/c they aren't using it anymore or are moving or whatever.

good luck!

[karneyli]

i've played on a lot of acoustic pianos when I was a student, but once I moved into a condo in the city I opted for a digital piano (besides being easier to move).  The problem with acoustic pianos I found was the cheap upright acoustics are terrible in so many ways I can't even being to explain:  poor action, heavy action, hollow sounds, "empty" high register, unresponsiveness (when compared with grand action) and then a good grand piano naturally doesn't go for under $10k.  I wouldn't touch anything in that "baby grand" range with at all.   Of course, then there's the problem of once you've played on nice concert or conservatory grand pianos (I prefer Yamahas and Steinways) when you have to play on a bad piano it just hurts.

I have a Yamaha YPD223, the instrument doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, but I like the weighted action enough that I can feel like it is providing the responsiveness I need.  The sound is great, and the best part is the lack of needing to have someone come and tune the instrument twice a year. 

[pianoperformer]

karneyli, yeah that's exactly what I'm thinking.

If you don't mind, how much did your Yamaha go for?

I'm going to hopefully go look around today just to see what price to expect. Besides the hammer action, polyphony, and damper, I don't care about much else.

[nhi1605]

Hi I've heard my recommendations on the Y140 (I might have gotten it wrong) the price is 1.5k but it is now on sale for 1k in Guitar Center. I've played it myself actually and the feel felt pretty good. However I went with a YDP140 because it is also 1k but it includes a stand, bench, headphones, everything... and the keys are only a little inferior to that of a Y140 and there's not as many wires too! So goodluck! I, myself, spent a few dozens of hours researching for digital pianos because I find them way more convenient than acoustic (no semi-annual tuning and the ability to use headphones)

[acbeswick]

In my opinion a Roland Digital Piano gives you the best sound and feel.

[pianoperformer]

Unfortunately, the local piano store only has a Roland for about $4,000. The used one they said is 20 years old. They have some nice Kawais though. I'll post the model of the one I like tomorrow, as I can't remember. It's $1,850 I think. Hopefully I can trade in my keyboard to get a bit off of that.

[dkainoa]

I purchased a yamaha stage piano not too long ago for many of the above-stated reasons (volume, neighbors, etc) and have been very happy with it. The model is CP33 fully weighted keys with a very nice and heavy feel.  The touch is variable and while i always have mine set to heavy - i've read that some people accustomed to lighter feel acoustics find digital yamahas almost *too* heavy.  The price of the keyboard is right around $1100 and you'll find many more reviews online - but i can say that i've enjoyed it very much - for what it's worth (i.e until my living situation allows for another acoustic).  good luck on your search and remember to always try them out!

[pianoperformer]

Interesting.

I went to look at some digitals yesterday. I realized though that the ones they claimed were weighted felt just about the same as my keyboard.

The model by the way of my keyboard is a Kawai ES4. It cost about $1,900.

Anyway, I decided for now to get a new stand for it, to at least minimize the wobbling I was experiencing before. It is a little bit better now.

But my bench is a bit low, so now I'm trying to look for one of those. The store didn't have any available.

[mousekowski]

At the risk of turning a perfectly good-natured thread into a potential minefield, my strong preference is for acoustic pianos.

I had a Roland digital piano a few years ago and my playing on acoustic pianos - especially my ability to produce a nice sound - deteriorated noticably. When you play a digital instrument, you don't need to try and produce a nice tone, it does it for you. So you get lazy and when you go back to an acoustic piano you sound flat and dull. When it comes to the important task of producing different tones and touches, the digital player is at a disadvantage because the only sound that comes out is 'concert grand with reverb and chorus', no matter how you attach the keys. I admit that you can play legato / staccato and soft / loud on a digital piano, but you can't do much else.

Now I'm very lucky to have a Yamaha C3, which I bought six or seven years ago. It has opened up lots of sounds that I couldn't have got out of a digital piano.

[pianoperformer]

At the risk of turning a perfectly good-natured thread into a potential minefield, my strong preference is for acoustic pianos.

I had a Roland digital piano a few years ago and my playing on acoustic pianos - especially my ability to produce a nice sound - deteriorated noticably. When you play a digital instrument, you don't need to try and produce a nice tone, it does it for you. So you get lazy and when you go back to an acoustic piano you sound flat and dull. When it comes to the important task of producing different tones and touches, the digital player is at a disadvantage because the only sound that comes out is 'concert grand with reverb and chorus', no matter how you attach the keys. I admit that you can play legato / staccato and soft / loud on a digital piano, but you can't do much else.

Now I'm very lucky to have a Yamaha C3, which I bought six or seven years ago. It has opened up lots of sounds that I couldn't have got out of a digital piano.

Hi,

I understand, and agree, in most circumstances.

However, I doubt I can afford a decent acoustic piano. Further, I can’t transport an acoustic piano between home and school.

Finally, I wouldn’t be practicing on it that often. At school, I would usually be practicing in the practice rooms, which obviously have acoustic pianos. The only reason I’d practice on the keyboard at school is because of bad weather.

At home, I’d be practicing on it over breaks, such as Christmas, spring break, Easter, and summer. So yes, the longest interval would be maybe 4 months, though I probably wouldn’t use that every day, as sometimes I go to a local church to practice.

Anyway, if I had the money for a good acoustic, I would purchase one. Maybe I will save up and get one by the summer, who knows. How much would you suggest spending on a decent acoustic piano?

How long do you think is too long for practicing on a digital piano? I mean a week, a month, two months?

[mousekowski]

Another consideration is: 'What do you want to do with your music?'

If you want to be a solo concert pianist then I'd recommend putting in as many hours as you can on an acoustic piano. Playing chamber music using a digital instrument is a wierd and not-very-wonderful experience. If you want to do jazz then an acoustic piano is nice but not indispensable. If you want to compose or play pop/rock music then a stage piano is a good option...

[pianoperformer]

Another consideration is: 'What do you want to do with your music?'

If you want to be a solo concert pianist then I'd recommend putting in as many hours as you can on an acoustic piano. Playing chamber music using a digital instrument is a wierd and not-very-wonderful experience. If you want to do jazz then an acoustic piano is nice but not indispensable. If you want to compose or play pop/rock music then a stage piano is a good option...

I want to be a solo concert pianist. But, again I do get in plenty of practice on Steinway pianos at college, but I don’t see what options I have for home.

Again I ask, how much money would I need for a decent acoustic? I might consider it if it is not too much.

[mousekowski]

Depends on what you mean by decent. In the UK some people will have old out of tune acoustic pianos that they'll let you have for free - as long as you provide a van, a trolley and a couple of friends to take it away!

Maybe you mean 'young'. One piano teacher I had said that acoustic pianos have a lifespan similar to people - they're best when they are youngish and not much good by the time you get to 80 or 90 years old. Try and save up $1000 if you can and look for a secondhand Yamaha.

[pianoperformer]

Depends on what you mean by decent. In the UK some people will have old out of tune acoustic pianos that they'll let you have for free - as long as you provide a van, a trolley and a couple of friends to take it away!

Maybe you mean 'young'. One piano teacher I had said that acoustic pianos have a lifespan similar to people - they're best when they are youngish and not much good by the time you get to 80 or 90 years old. Try and save up $1000 if you can and look for a secondhand Yamaha.

Yeah, I meant not too old. My range is probably $1,000-1,500, pushing $2,000 if absolutely necessary. The pricier, though, the longer I have to wait, and I'd really like to get this by summer.
So I guess the route I'll go down for now is to keep my keyboard just in case, and save up for an acoustic for the summer. Maybe then I can save a lot more over the next few years to get a much nicer one when I graduate.

Even my piano teacher at college warned not to practice on the keyboard too often. I just don't have many options right now when I'm at home.

Thanks for your input.

[acosta11]

There are without question some characteristics of an acoustic instrument that cannot me duplicated by digital...but when i went to college and could not fit even an upright in my dorm room, i did some testing at a few stores and ended up buying a yamaha p-120.  i've been extremely happy with it.  digital definitely has its benefits (such as being able to plug in headphones when you want to practice without waking up your roomate or neighbors) but i still feel more 'alive' when i sit down at an acoustic. 

[Petter]

I was out looking today and the only ones I liked were the Roland FP-7 and Yamaha P-140, both quite expensive. Yamaha has a new model out now called P-155, haven´t tried it yet, but seems interesting.
 Has anyone tried Yamahas silent pianos? I´ve played one once but the regular upright next to it felt so much better.

[yuc4h]

I was out looking today and the only ones I liked were the Roland FP-7 and Yamaha P-140, both quite expensive. Yamaha has a new model out now called P-155, haven´t tried it yet, but seems interesting.
 Has anyone tried Yamahas silent pianos? I´ve played one once but the regular upright next to it felt so much better.

If you liked the action of FP-7, you should really try out RD-700 GX. The action is way better than that of FP-7 and also simulates the grand piano escapement.

[Petter]

If you liked the action of FP-7, you should really try out RD-700 GX. The action is way better than that of FP-7 and also simulates the grand piano escapement.

Is that the "ivory touch"? Spoke to someone who recommended something similar, seems it doesn´t  have inbuilt speakers and a lot of workstation features I´m not really interested in. Compared to FP-7 the RD-700 GX seems to be one step ahead in price range as well. Oh the drudgery....

[Petter]

At the risk of turning a perfectly good-natured thread into a potential minefield, my strong preference is for acoustic pianos.

I had a Roland digital piano a few years ago and my playing on acoustic pianos - especially my ability to produce a nice sound - deteriorated noticably. When you play a digital instrument, you don't need to try and produce a nice tone, it does it for you. So you get lazy and when you go back to an acoustic piano you sound flat and dull. When it comes to the important task of producing different tones and touches, the digital player is at a disadvantage because the only sound that comes out is 'concert grand with reverb and chorus', no matter how you attach the keys. I admit that you can play legato / staccato and soft / loud on a digital piano, but you can't do much else.

I noticed this today when I tried a Yamaha Silent grand. I´ve had limited possibility to practice on an acoustic piano recently. When I tried the grand piano it kinda depressed me how much more satisfying the tone quality was overall with the digital sound compared to the acoustic.

[yuc4h]

Is that the "ivory touch"? Spoke to someone who recommended something similar, seems it doesn´t  have inbuilt speakers and a lot of workstation features I´m not really interested in. Compared to FP-7 the RD-700 GX seems to be one step ahead in price range as well. Oh the drudgery....

Yeap, the downside is that you have to buy a set of monitors also if you don't want to use headphones. However, the inbuilt speakers tend to be pretty crappy on any stage models.

The "ivory touch" is a part of the great touch, it makes the surfaces of the keys feel ehm... "ivorish" :­D the hammer action is also one generation ahead of fp-7 and features the simulated escapement.

Some time ago when I tried the RD700GX out at the local music store I decided that I must have it. I also tried some Yamaha grand pianos at the store and when I compared the touch I actually found the feeling of GX more satisfying. I sold my old FP-7 to a friend and bought a GX :­D

[Petter]

What do you think about the RD-300GX in comparison to the FP-7 and RD-700GX? Have you tried it? I think it´s about the same price range as the Yamaha P-140. It´s supposed to have the "ivory touch" as well.

[yuc4h]

I have tried RD300-GX only once so my information may not be really accurate, but as far as perceived the "ivory touch" is there but the escapement feature isn't. The keytouch is also somewhat lighter than in 700GX and the dynamic range you can produce is lacking. I would probably pick FP-7 over 300GX.

[virtualgiving]

I recently purchased the Yamaha CP300, and it's truly wonderful. If I don't want to disturb anyone, I use a high quality professional Sony headset. 27 years ago, I used to play on a Yamaha CP70 (required a pro who knew how to tune those since it had a real string harp, hammers, etc., inside).

Amazing how far digital pianos have come since those days. The cost was around $2,200 but I purchased it through Amazon.com.

I would highly recommend it.

[gerry]

cmg,
When you give the $2,000 price, what do you mean by "without the stupid furniture tacked onto it"? If you mean the extra bells and whistles, so to speak, extra sounds and advanced recording, I don't need any of that.

I think what cmg meant by stupid furniture was all the fancy stuff tacked on to make it look more like an acoustic piano; i.e., fake grand piano harp and lid, etc. BTW I still use an old Yamaha PF100 88-key portable when I spend several months in the tropics where it would be impractical to keep an acoustic. I get tons of practice on it with noticable improvement in my technique when I return home to my acoustic. I feel practice on a good digital piano can be very useful (particularly for the student who needs to practice silently) but must be alternated judiciously with practice on an acoustic.

[Petter]

If you liked the action of FP-7, you should really try out RD-700 GX. The action is way better than that of FP-7 and also simulates the grand piano escapement.

I gave in and bought a RD-700 GX and oh my lord is that thing fun or what!
 What kind of pricerange of headphones or brand do you recommend? I´m also curious if I should spend some money on a better mixer, the one I got was a cheap one. I´m not certain I´d notice that much difference with a more expensive one unless it´s something really expensive.

[njalli]

I used to have a digital piano, but we sold it a few years ago, and now I have a keyboard that I hate. It's full-sized, but the keys are way too light, and the stand shakes when I play with any decent force.

I really need something though, especially for when I'm at home, since I have no acoustic at home. At college, of course, I have access to the practice rooms, which have Steinway baby grands.

So I wanted to see what recommendations you have for digitals.

I'm saying digital because I'm assuming they are cheaper than an acoustic, plus it might be useful to be able to put headphones in.

I need something that is as close to possible to the feel of an acoustic. Of course it'll never be the same, I know.

I'm looking for a good balance between quality and price. I'm on disability so can't afford that much unless I save for quite a while, and I don't have enough credit history yet to get anything on credit. My mother really can't afford it, either, though I'm sure she'd help.

Thanks for any suggestions.

from Yamaha or maybie from other companies too, you can get 'silent pianos' just normal piano, or a grand piano that is just completely normal but when you plug headsets in them you can only hear them in the headset and nobody else

[yuc4h]

I gave in and bought a RD-700 GX and oh my lord is that thing fun or what!
 What kind of pricerange of headphones or brand do you recommend? I´m also curious if I should spend some money on a better mixer, the one I got was a cheap one. I´m not certain I´d notice that much difference with a more expensive one unless it´s something really expensive.

You made a great choice. Looks like the keytouch of the GX seduced you also. I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with it and judging by the build quality of it I would expect it to remain in top condition for a long time.

About the sound quality: since the GX is the flagship model of the roland stage pianos, the sound quality of the instrument itself will not become the issue compared to other equipment of the sound system. (unless you're planning on using really expensive stuff) So the more you're willing to spend on headphones the better it will sound. It also easily drives the headphones that have a high impedance ratings. Depending on the quality of the sound you wish to get, you might want to try HD-555, HD-595, HD-600, HD-650 from Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic DT-990 or AKG K-701. Just remember that HD-600, HD-650 and K-701 are such high end headphones that if you are considering using them while listening to music from your computer you should also consider buying a headphone amplifier to get the maximum sound quality out of them. (the GX will drive them easily without any extra equipment however)

I don't know what do you mean by "mixer" but if you mean a soundcard you have to tell me the name so I can be more helpful. I also could post some info and comments about the sound system I've been running the GX with if you'd like a reference :­)

[Petter]

I think I meant a monitor system, public address thingy. Which I believed was an amplifier until recently when I realized my speakers had inbuilt amplifiers, so scratch that for now 
 Anyway, earphones me needs, anything for ~500-600 dollars? I realize you could probably pay a slighter fortune for a pair, I´m just not ready to become a h-fi nerd just yet.

[yuc4h]

That's a good price range, you don't have to pay that much for a pair of excellent headphones that suit your needs tho. I would recommend trying one of these (I have tried them both and they sound great although different)

AKG K-701: Neutral response with suberb voice separation and soundstage. The sound is transparent and accurate. The only drawback is that these require a ridiculous amount of burn in time before(~300 hours) the best sound quality is achieved. https://www.headphone.com/products/audiophile-desktop/akg-k-701-white.php

Sennheiser HD-650:Provides stronger bass response but the sound is not as defined and accurate as with K-701. The overrall presentation is more laid-back. https://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/all-headphones/sennheiser-hd-650.php

[point of grace]

KAWAI

[Petter]

Thanks Yuc4, something I find odd about RD700 are the tempos of some preset rhythms, like swing or jazz. If the quarter note pulse is set to ♩ = 52 it corresponds with ♩ = 70. Any ideas? I find the manual really annoying to read...

[lostinidlewonder]

Buy a second hand digital that was used by a beginner or someone who doesn't play the keyboard loudly You pay 1/2 the price and have the same instrument. Don't buy 2nd hand digital pianos from advanced students of musicians. I've sold my digital pianos over the years to needy students but these instruments have gone through a hell of time, key can lose their sensitivity etc.

I never think buying a new piano is a good idea, unless you have the money. The same goes for a car. As soon as you buy it new it looses its value immediately. So buy 2nd hand ones and you will get more bang out of your $, if $ doesn't matter then buy top of the line $10K+ digitals.

[yuc4h]

Thanks Yuc4, something I find odd about RD700 are the tempos of some preset rhythms, like swing or jazz. If the quarter note pulse is set to ♩ = 52 it corresponds with ♩ = 70. Any ideas? I find the manual really annoying to read...

I haven't really been meddling around with the preset rhythms much. I mainly use them as a more pleasant sounding metronome. It does seem that those presets you mentioned are out of sync compared to others tho. You might need to consult the feared manual for more information :/

[anda]

i have a great upright - very hard mechanism, sweet sound, a real delight. and recently i also bought a digital one (i need to practice at night, and i have neighbors  ). i got a yamaha ydp 140, payed 750 euros (in europe, i don't know the price in usa), and feel like a got more than my money's worth. it's the best digital i tried - speaking strictly in terms of touch. it doesn't have many effects, and there isn't much  you can do with it besides practice, but for that it's pretty good. all in all, i'd recommend it.

best luck