Help on fingering...

[drooxy]

Hi everyone,

How would you finger this left hand bass+chords:

   Eb[-2] / G-Eb[0] / Bb-Eb-G[0]

I have been playing 5 / 5-2 / 4-2-1 for a long time but I wonder about the 5-2 that might note be the most comfortable fingering... 5-1 might cause less tension but then the thumb goes on a black key... I don't know !

What would you guys suggest ?

Thanks !
Drooxy

[donjuan]

I dont know what it means when you put [-2].  Can you explain?
Dont worry about having to use the thumb on a black key.  It will only be a problem for quick scales.
Instead of 4-2-1, have you tryed 5-2-1? It will be easier- the 4th finger is clumsy and lacks independence.
donjuan

[drooxy]

Thanks Donjuan...

• is the way I found (somewhere ?) to talk about the central octave on the keyboard and [-2] 2 octaves on the left... might even be [-3] in my example ! That was to emphasize the fact that there is a big jump between the bass Eb and the following 2 chords...
  
  So, I'll try 5 / 5-1 / 5-2-1 then... Also, if I could get a complete and accurate description of how the left arm (forearm, shoulder, body, etc...) should deal with those big bass key jumps, I am very interested !
  
  Thanks again for your answer and feel free to let me know if you have another way to deal with "[+/-n] thing"
  
  :-/
  
  Drooxy

[bernhard]

Let me guess… Chopin’s Nocturne Op. 9 no.2

The original fingering is best (even though it may feel a bit uncomfortable if you have small hands). Why?

First, there is nothing wrong with playing a black key with the thumb. In fact many times the thumb will provide the best alternative in terms of sound produced.

However in this particular case, I want you to observe the difference in overall movement that results if you use 5-2 as opposed to 5-1. If you use 5-1 you have no alternative but to “hop” from the first to the second chord. Sure, you can also do the same hopping movement if you use 5 – 2, and if this was all there was to it, then I would use 5 – 1 which is far more comfortable.

But with 5 – 2 you can do something much different than just hop from chord to chord. You can keep your second finger in the Eb and pivot the hand to the next chord. This movement is completely impossible if you use 5-1.

In the beginning this movement will seem awkward (ask your teacher to demonstrate it for you), but once you become used to it (i.e., the movement becomes comfortable) you will not believe how appropriate this movement is both to the mood of the piece and to the sound that results.

Many times we cannot understand some awkward fingerings until we realise that we must discover (through experimentation  - unless someone knowledgeable can show us) which movement makes that apparently awkward fingering comfortable.

In this way, the fingering in a piece often describes a way of moving by implication. This is particularly true of Chopin’s original fingerings (not some editor’s), which you can now find in most urtext editions.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Bernhard ! How did you guess ?  

There is no left hand fingering indicated on the edition of that piece I have and I have been using the fingering 5-2 from the beginning, for the pivot reason you mention (I am proud that I figured it out by myself so I cannot resist mentionning my original post !   https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1079521871;start=4).

As I explain in that post, I originally tried to make that 5-52-421 fingering a systematic one for the whole piece but I found at least three cases where I feel uncomfortable and therefore use 5-1 instead:

. if the 5-2 interval is very large (it is the case with G-F    
 measure 4)

. if the interval is large and fingers 5 and 2 both go on
 white keys: the thumb is then "sent" far from the
 keyboard, toward the - bad - pianist (it seems that we
 are talking of me here...   ) (G-E measure 2)

. if the interval is large and the finger 5 goes on a back
 key and the 2 on a white one... (the position of the
 thumb gets even worse than in the previous case... Eb-
 C measure 11)

There might be some other cases but at least I have clearly identified these three !

Feel free to correct me if I am on the wrong track !

Thanks DonJuan and Bernhard for your input !

Sincerely,
Drooxy