Good Teacher or Good Piano?

[frank_48]

what do you guys think is more important? would you stay with an excellent teacher despite a less than average piano? or would you try and find a matching combonation?
i suppose in the end its the teachers wisdom that counts right?

[kelly_kelly]

Well, if you ask me, someone who's not trained by a good teacher won't be able to exercise the full potential of a good piano, so...

[gerryjay]

dear frank:
i go with kelly: if i have to choose, i'd rather prefer a good teacher. anyway, it sometimes can limit both your teacher and you, because some things are not possible in a bad instrument.
best!

[lostinidlewonder]

A good teacher is useless without some initial piano experience. I don't like the idea of anyone trying to learn a musical instrument without having tried it out on their own initially. Autodidactic's will benefit from practicing on a good quality instrument with little or no teaching. Others will benefit from a mediocre piano initially to gain experience, then invest in a good teacher. Once you realize that your instrument is insufficient for your needs you must upgrade and this can happen before or after you have your first lesson from a teacher, usually the latter. I find it illogical to buy an expensive piano for a beginner.

I don't believe that good quality instruments necessarily make faster learning or better musician. A good musician knows how to use whatever quality instrument they deal with. Thus experience with high quality instruments is important but not necessary to keep under your own roof  at home.

[quantum]

A tangent off lostinidlewonder's post:

I think one can gain more appreciation for a quality instrument if one began on an instrument of average or worse condition.  As your knowledge of music grows you will discover things you wish to express, but are not possible on lesser instruments. 

[pianisten1989]

Seriously, how can you say that a good piano is more important than a good teacher?!

It's not that hard to make a good sound on a steinway. But if you make the same good sound on a crappy piano, you'll make a steinway sound god-like.

A good piano will never teach you how to play well, a bad piano will.
A bad teacher will never teach you how to play well, a good will.

So a good teacher is way more important than a good piano.

[dan101]

A serious student really does needs a good teacher. The amazing piano can come later, in my opinion.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think one can gain more appreciation for a quality instrument if one began on an instrument of average or worse condition.  As your knowledge of music grows you will discover things you wish to express, but are not possible on lesser instruments. 

This is totally true!! Initially I learned on an old Australian Upright, I can't even remember the name of it but its sound board was ruined. I also find studying on a keyboard with a slightly heavier action (my next piano was a Bechstein with heavy action)  is better than something with easy action. I remember when I first played a Yamaha at school I thought, this is too easy, but I did find it hard to play softer.

[gerryjay]

A good piano will never teach you how to play well, a bad piano will.
A bad teacher will never teach you how to play well, a good will.

hi!
although it sounds nice, i must disagree (in part). i think good and bad instruments teach us in different ways, and both are very rich.

a bad piano will put limits to your performance. the challenge of overcome those, and find valid musical solutions, gives you a powerful knowledge of your own technique, and how to control it. as an example, my old upright have some minor problems in its mechanics, and thus, the weight of two neighbor keys was sometimes very different. to correct it in scale passages using a slight difference of pressure in one finger was an interesting problem to solve.

in the other hand, a good piano (in a proper hall, otherwise it is a bad piano as well)  presents you the challenge of do whatever you can. it is, in a distinct way, something that can teach you a lot. for example, to tame a steinway in a great hall is an unique experience, completely remoted from your home practice. something i, btw, want to have in the following years. 

best!

[amelialw]

Having a good teacher is very important...i've learnt that from yrs of experience.

However once a student reaches or attains a certain level it is important that the teacher has a good grand piano at home to teach the student with. That is what my canada teacher believes.
If the student's parents can afford a good grand once the student reaches an advanced level and the student is serious it is highly reccomended too!
I can feel the difference myself. When I 1st started out for my 1st 14 yrs I practiced on a old Ellington upright(by Yamaha) that never stayed in tune. After moving to canada for about 4 months while I was living at my uncle's house, My parents bought me a 50 yr old Heinzman baby grand(not the new ones, but the old Heinzman made in Toronto). It made a great difference, but unfortunately I did not improve as much as I could because I had to share the piano with my 3 cousins and could'nt practice alot. When I moved into my own home(with my mom&bro, eventually my dad) the home had a 12 yr old K.Kawai KG-2E that the owner wanted to sell as well. After moving into my own home, I improved vastly again, besides that, this piano was my very own to play on as much as I liked, I had it for 4 yrs in total. After going to my friend's(who is now my best friend's) home I took a fancy to his Boston GP-178 which was the 1st Boston that I liked.

Well...I am very fortunate now, after playing and using so many old pianos for years, I have my own Boston GP-178. It has made such a big difference in my playing. Having a piano that I love motivates me to work and I don't take it as work, I enjoy it!
It suprises me too, how practicing on a better quality grand with good keys(that are heavy naturally) makes it so easy for me to play on Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway, Petrof grands etc. My schoolmates often complain how heavy and hard the Yamahas&Kawai's in school are to play, whereas too me, it's nothing, I can adjust to playing on any piano(partly because of the diff pianos I've practiced on for years too)

[allemande]

Oh boy, My teacher always tells me that her maestro, Vicenzo Scaramuzza, would always say this when one would start complaining about their piano:

"Great pianists are formed on bad pianos"

I agree totally. It takes a lot more work and process to search for tone and quality and find what one wants to do on a mediocre piano as apposed to if one has a brand new steinway. Then all that work is easily perceived by the better pianos. All the sound and sensitivity is later then greatly appreciated when one moves on to a better piano.

Nonetheless, I also believe it is necessary to obtain a good piano later on to continue studies.

[gerryjay]

Having a good teacher is very important...i've learnt that from yrs of experience.

However once a student reaches or attains a certain level it is important that the teacher has a good grand piano at home to teach the student with. That is what my canada teacher believes.
If the student's parents can afford a good grand once the student reaches an advanced level and the student is serious it is highly reccomended too!
I can feel the difference myself. When I 1st started out for my 1st 14 yrs I practiced on a old Ellington upright(by Yamaha) that never stayed in tune. After moving to canada for about 4 months while I was living at my uncle's house, My parents bought me a 50 yr old Heinzman baby grand(not the new ones, but the old Heinzman made in Toronto). It made a great difference, but unfortunately I did not improve as much as I could because I had to share the piano with my 3 cousins and could'nt practice alot. When I moved into my own home(with my mom&bro, eventually my dad) the home had a 12 yr old K.Kawai KG-2E that the owner wanted to sell as well. After moving into my own home, I improved vastly again, besides that, this piano was my very own to play on as much as I liked, I had it for 4 yrs in total. After going to my friend's(who is now my best friend's) home I took a fancy to his Boston GP-178 which was the 1st Boston that I liked.

Well...I am very fortunate now, after playing and using so many old pianos for years, I have my own Boston GP-178. It has made such a big difference in my playing. Having a piano that I love motivates me to work and I don't take it as work, I enjoy it!
It suprises me too, how practicing on a better quality grand with good keys(that are heavy naturally) makes it so easy for me to play on Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway, Petrof grands etc. My schoolmates often complain how heavy and hard the Yamahas&Kawai's in school are to play, whereas too me, it's nothing, I can adjust to playing on any piano(partly because of the diff pianos I've practiced on for years too)

dear amelia:
interesting background you have. btw, this experience of many different pianos is fundamental, in my point of view. i think that we, given the fact that we can carry away our own instruments, must learn how to control the most distinct pianos around there. in your case (i take for granted that you pursue a playing career), it's so important as raw technique, imho. what you describe (your mates that have problems playing in other pianos) is a pitfall that one knows only after getting into it. cool that you had all those odd instruments to explore.

on a side note, does any upright really tune? 

best!

[gerryjay]

Nonetheless, I also believe it is necessary to obtain a good piano later on to continue studies.

dear allemande:
this is very important. i think that what we agree in general (that a bad piano can teach you a lot) has a limit: when the instrument makes things not hard, but impossible. a ridiculous example would be berio's sequenza...
best!

[pianisten1989]

dear allemande:
this is very important. i think that what we agree in general (that a bad piano can teach you a lot) has a limit: when the instrument makes things not hard, but impossible. a ridiculous example would be berio's sequenza...
best!

With a bad piano, I don't mean an instrument where some tones doesn't work, or terribly tuned.. But piano without the articulation of a Steinway or the soft sound of a Bluthners.
A piano where you really have to try to make it sound great. And it is possible on almost all instrument..

[gerryjay]

With a bad piano, I don't mean an instrument where some tones doesn't work, or terribly tuned.. But piano without the articulation of a Steinway or the soft sound of a Bluthners.
A piano where you really have to try to make it sound great. And it is possible on almost all instrument..

dear pianisten:

i understand your point, but i must stick to my point: some works are impossible to play at an acceptable level in less than perfect instruments. i told about berio's sequenza for two main reasons: the one is the extensive use of the sostenuto pedal, which many pianos simply don't have; the other reason is that this piece requires so much of the acoustic possibility of a piano, that playing it in a bad instrument is actually impossible for the single reason that half of the sounds will not be heard.

then, it's really about one's standards. i remember a pupil that used to play satie in his electronic keyboard, with the sustain active (since it was a pedal-less keyboard), and he was very happy about that  .

best!

[a-sharp]

It depends on the piano, and the teacher.

How are we defining "good?" If by 'good'  you mean 'superb quality,' I'd say, go for the teacher first. If by good you mean a decently functional, in tune, well-maintained acoustic, go for the piano. Many "good" teachers won't take a student without the latter.

[pianisten1989]

some works are impossible to play at an acceptable level in less than perfect instruments. i told about berio's sequenza for two main reasons: the one is the extensive use of the sostenuto pedal, which many pianos simply don't have; the other reason is that this piece requires so much of the acoustic possibility of a piano, that playing it in a bad instrument is actually impossible for the single reason that half of the sounds will not be heard.

Well, if you are a concert pianist who doens't need a teacher, you shouldn't get the teacher. But mostly ppl who are in that situation, who rather gets a piano or a teacher, aren't concert pianist.

And the ppl who plays the Sequenza are probably not students... If they are, they are in the same stage as te concert pianist: Probably don't really need a teacher.

[gerryjay]

Well, if you are a concert pianist who doens't need a teacher, you shouldn't get the teacher. But mostly ppl who are in that situation, who rather gets a piano or a teacher, aren't concert pianist.

And the ppl who plays the Sequenza are probably not students... If they are, they are in the same stage as te concert pianist: Probably don't really need a teacher.

hi, pianisten:
if you report yourself to this thread's second reply, you will understand my position about this question, and the nature of this digression about the sequenza, which was hyperbolic.
best!