Basics of practicing

[dennis.it]

Hi all
I'm new here, but I have been a lurker for some time.
I have already skimmed through Chang Fundamentals of Piano Practice and Bernhard's posts, but I don't need such complex obsessive details.

My problem is practicing. I usually take a lot of time learning a new piece (notes rhythm) and get stucks on the first pages forever. Usually when I know the piece technically, I'm faster in polishing it and adding interpretative details.

But generally, when I'm assigned a new piece, I don't know where to begin.
I have tried to repeat over and over two bars, then switch to the next two bars and repeat them over and over.

It kind of work sometimes but it feels like mindless practicing and I don't feel involved in the piece and in the music making.

So I don't certainly need the finest minutiae of practicing, since I have been able to adopt the basics yet. Can you help me?

[m19834]

Well, it seems that you are not really looking for a way to begin (as that is spelled out in ways within the texts of Bernhard's and Chang's), but rather how to apply what you have read to what you are doing in real life, in such a way that yields the results you apparently believe you should be experiencing (but are apparently not).  That is where everything that Bernhard and Chang have generously offered become a tool, more or less, for the individual learner.  Also, tools will only take us so far. 

The only way that I have continued to find my own way is by taking whatever tools I can, learning it/trying it/applying it, taking some kind of account of what actually happens during the process, and then learning from that overall experience.  Then, when it comes to learning a new piece, I have more information to work with regarding myself and how I personally interact with the process of learning.  It has also made a big difference for me to have a mentor to play for and work with live, to help give me some perspective on what is actually happening and what is not.  As it turns out though, no matter how many great things we read and no matter how much great guidence we recieve, the process of learning is still very individual.  A great teacher though is pretty important, hee hee.

Basically, there is some kind of awareness a person must develop in how many repetitions it may take to get to know a passage, and that awareness keeps you from spending needless time on something in a given day, week, month ... year.  But, we have to get to know what all of those things mean to us as individuals, and that is an ongoing process.

So, after all of that, what I say to you is just start !  With all of that information to read about and all of the planning a person can do, it gets pretty easy to become jumbled up in some kind of net, being scared to do something ineffieciently or somehow wrong.  The thing is, we WILL do things inefficiently and wrong, that is just part of the process, and the good news is that we can learn from those things as we go along.

hmmm ... I can't seem to focus everything I want to say enough to feel like I am really saying much of anything at all !  In any event, just DIVE in (and listen, listen, listen )!

[shingo]

I am glad that someone else is currently experiencing this, as masochistic as that sounds. I am in the same position you are and too find it difficult to a) begin, and get a sizable chunk of the music down initially and b) get notes and rhythm quickly. I have also tried the 1 bar, then 2nd bar then together etc and in theory this is a good technique and may work for some, or even most but again like you I find it hard to do and in your words "I don't feel involved in the piece and in the music making"

Practicing became chore-like with a set amount of repetitions I knew had to do for the days work (i.e. the amount that could be doe in the 2 hour slot I have). This is limiting already as I know that the most I can do today is up to this part in the music, and if this isn’t achieved then I have failed.

It isn't all about speed but it becomes frustrating to not have anything really to show for a days practice. Especially as I have tried to abandon my previous repertoire so as to force me into learning some new things, so I am quite bare at the moment.

In a way I wish I hadn't read all of the posts on practice and organisation or Chang's book. As much as I respect the opinions and the hard work that has gone into the book I feel it has left me over-thinking and constantly worrying, measuring, timing practice which makes it feel un-natural and robotic (for me). However I think this has stemmed from a growing obsession to try and find the magic formula and if I re-plan and re-plan enough I will find one where I can learn a piece a week, a piece a day, a piece an hour.

One piece of advice I will definitely keep active use of is on the number of pieces I am working on at one time. I had cut this down recently so as to only focus on 2 pieces 1 hour on each but this becomes tiresome for me and 2 hours seems to pass very slowly. I think part of the fun I used to have was working on, say 3 or 4 pieces at a time half an hour on each and seeing the time fly by “wow is it 2 hours already, I will do some more anyway what the heck”.  Again this stemmed from trying to put progress and efficiency before enjoyment consequently resulting in very little progress as the enjoyment wasn’t there.

Now I practice with more freedom like I had before saying I have half an hour what can I do with this piece in that time and just going with the flow of things. One thing I found with spending an hour on a piece at a time was that I would get less done because I would think I have an hour so there is no rush.

The models set out in Chang and Bernhard’s contributions I feel should be viewed as a perfect one in regards to managing time and progression and as K has rightly pointed out "it gets pretty easy to become jumbled up in some kind of net, being scared to do something inefficiently or somehow wrong". I know this is where I was.

So I am reverting back to what was my style before concentrating it so specifically on what I had read, I had forgotten what this was to begin with but by looking back at my practice log I re-discovered it (one of the useful aspects of keeping one). I will continue to keep Bernhard's posts in mind as well as Chang's teachings but I will start gauging for myself what is or isn't working rather than thinking that if I am not doing it their way it is wrong. It will be wrong when it isn't working and at the moment this is what is happening.

[dennis.it]

Shingo do you have a msn account?
We're so similar in your approach and difficolties, that I'd like to keep in touch with you and discuss practicing (or sharing practicing tips or our daily tricks)

[shingo]

Hi,

I do indeed have an msn account but I very rarely use it these days. Would it be better to use the PM system in this forum that way we cna still share thoughts?

[dennis.it]

Hi,

I do indeed have an msn account but I very rarely use it these days. Would it be better to use the PM system in this forum that way we cna still share thoughts?

Yes, but I think we would communicate better via chat, even the one on this site.

[mike_lang]

This ridiculous 1-bar + 1-bar = 2-bars approach of B. and Chang is efficient in theory, but in reality, completely inorganic.  The principle behind it makes sense - do not take into your mouth larger bites than you can swallow.  HOWEVER, we should work in a musical sense, phrase by phrase.  It is essential to hear the phrase in your head first as you play it, so it is good to sing along.  (A violin professor I played for once told me that we should sing everything when we practice, just as much as we play it, and to sing in the streets as we walk (!!))  It is contrary to music to work in ARBITRARY mathematical segments of one bar, without regard to harmony, melodic progression, climax, shape, etc.

If you are interested and could provide the  name of the piece in question, I could demonstrate better the way in which I go about this process.

[go12_3]

Practicing requires much focus upon what we are learning in a piece.  It's not something that is a fluke.  We have to sightread better in order to do better in understanding and reading the notes, etc.  Our minds has to be clear and ready to sit down and get those fingers to function.  Do exercises until we know how we feel for the day.  Being tired isn't a good thing.  Nothing gets accomplished.  Everyone has their way of practicing.  I practice some in the morning and some in the afternoon.  My day is full, and so I have to make practicing count.  Work on some easier pieces and some difficult ones----we know what they are!!  Etudes, Bach, etc.  The ones that makes us,oh my gosh, I have to work on this type of pieces.  Also, I feel that wanting to practice helps make learning the music much easier.  Everyday, I want to play piano and violin.  Music is a part of my life.  I wish I had more time to practice, but I do what I can to make practice enjoyable for me.  I don't have the pressures anymore to perfect a piece for an instructor or a competition.  I'm an instructor and therefore, my afternoons are not as free as I would like for practicing.  What's important is how we feel while we practice and let the music come.  When I learn a new piece, I sing the melody and just play the right hand first and then the left hand first, after sightreading the whole piece.  Then I know what I have to work on in the piece.  And that can vary from piece to piece, depending upon the composer and style of the piece.  I teach my students to look at the whole piece and as they play, to recognize the patterns, repeated notes and so forth.  To practice is a skill we develop throughout our lives.   Best of wishes for all in our practicing!!!   = )

[dennis.it]

I had a revelation today!

I'm beginning a martial art course.
The trainer said to me I'm a little unfit and he would like me to do esercizes to improve my strenght, before going on with the real course.

So I was suggested a series of bodyweight exercises to do as I please.

I had been doing them religiously for almost a month but I didn't progress much.
I realized something: certain exercises had became too easy and other were still as hard as the first day.

I had four exercises I had some problem with.
Slow reverse push-up, side plank, one-legged deadlift and chair-dip.

So what I did is creating a new program, made of only these exercises.
Within 5 days I have already improved more than I had in a month.

When doing the harder exercises as part of a program containing many easier exercises, I just didn't devote them enough time. Hence too much time was spent doing what I could already do and too little was spent doing what I really needed to improve.

Do we have an analogy with piano practicing here ?

[dennis.it]

If you are interested and could provide the  name of the piece in question, I could demonstrate better the way in which I go about this process.

Bach: Three Part Invention n.1
Schubert: Impromptu Op. 90 n.3

[go12_3]

Just practice as much as you can.  Go for it.  Keep it interesting.  Work on a variety of pieces, not the same ones day after day......best wishes!  go12_3