the most pianistic and unpianistic composer?

[imbetter]

interesting debate. I think the most pianistic would be bach or early beethoven. the most unpianistic being late beethoven and rachmaninoff

[communist]

most: Mendelssohn

least: Schubert

[healdie]

I don't know about the most pianistic but
I think the Least would be Schoenberg

[point of grace]

most: chopin
less: schubert

[imbetter]

its interesting that you say that because i actually find chopin to be extremely unpianistic

[jabbz]

Most:Beethoven (or someone along those lines)

Somewhere in the middle: Finnissy

Least: Chopin possibly.

[Petter]

Least is all damn cheap boring arrangements of themes in unpianistic settings.
Most is anything that doesn´t cause permanent or temporary injuries. 

[mikey6]

Surprised no one has mentioned Liszt!  Even though he is generally hard, it always fits under the fingers which can't always be said for Chopin who's inspiration tends to take over.  Ravel on the other hand had to fiddle with Scarbo to make it playable - the double seconds passage specifically.
Schubert always sounds pianistic.
Schumann is incredibly awkward most of the time.
Brahms and Rachmaninoff tend to write for themselves.

I think you need to define what you mean by pianistic - comfortable to play (which is going to vary) or effective on the piano coz you can go both ways.

[rob47]

most rachmaninoff and scriabin and prokofiev I find super pianistic for the most part

the development of mozart a minor sonata 1st movement is incredibly unpianistic

[point of grace]

its interesting that you say that because i actually find chopin to be extremely unpianistic

maybe... i chose chopin for his technique on the piano, and his devotion to it, just an opinion

[communist]

never mind. the most pianistic is Hanon

[angierc]

Pianistic: LISZT is number 1
Non-pianistic: Schubert (??)

[gyzzzmo]

Most pianistic: Chopin (great piano pieces, and orchestra compositions are crap)
Least pianistic: Mozart (Awsome in everything, only his piano compositions are mediocre)

[perfect_pitch]

Pianistic: LISZT is number 1
Non-pianistic: Schubert (??)

I'd agree with the Liszt part of that...

Most unpianistic??? I would have said Schumann since his little accident prevented him from playing for most of his late life. He didn't get to develop as far as he could have.

[gyzzzmo]

I'd agree with the Liszt part of that...

Most unpianistic??? I would have said Schumann since his little accident prevented him from playing for most of his late life. He didn't get to develop as far as he could have.

I didnt vote for liszt as most pianistic, because he also wrote decent non-pianistic stuff. Chopin could only compose properly for piano.
Mozart is exactly the other way around: He composed great stuff for everything EXCEPT piano :p

[weissenberg2]

I didnt vote for liszt as most pianistic, because he also wrote decent non-pianistic stuff. Chopin could only compose properly for piano.
Mozart is exactly the other way around: He composed great stuff for everything EXCEPT piano :p

This does not mean quality for the piano, it means how well it fits under the fingers for the pianist, it could be the worst music for the piano and be the most pianist.

Anyway, for most I would possibly say earlier Brahms (op.70 and after he could not care less about the pianism since he did not have to play it)

for least, I would say Schoenberg.

[gyzzzmo]

for least, I would say Schoenberg.

Wasnt it Hanon himself who was so terribly impressed by Schoenberg's tremolo's?

[Bob]

Schoenberg for least.

And some of the early keyboard composers for least.  That stuff does not fit the hand well.

Also, the avant garde modern composers for piano.  Large leaps.  Things that don't fit the hand well and still aren't really percussive enough.

[retrouvailles]

Yeah, I would agree with Bob and say that the early composers from Baroque and back have some of the least pianistic music, simply because they wrote with their instrument in mind, not our instrument, which has changed very much over the years. Many modern composers (I could name many, after the obvious ones like Schoenberg) also have very unpianistic music, simply because they think more about the compositional processes in the music than making it a pianistic work. I know this firsthand, having worked with composers who have written works for piano. The major common practice composers have unpianistic works, but they can't hold a candle to either early keyboard composers or many modern composers.

As for the most pianistic composer, I would argue that Chopin and Beethoven have been the most pianistic for me, but that is subjective.

[weissenberg2]

Yeah, I would agree with Bob and say that the early composers from Baroque and back have some of the least pianistic music, simply because they wrote with their instrument in mind, not our instrument, which has changed very much over the years. Many modern composers (I could name many, after the obvious ones like Schoenberg) also have very unpianistic music, simply because they think more about the compositional processes in the music than making it a pianistic work. I know this firsthand, having worked with composers who have written works for piano. The major common practice composers have unpianistic works, but they can't hold a candle to either early keyboard composers or many modern composers.

As for the most pianistic composer, I would argue that Chopin and Beethoven have been the most pianistic for me, but that is subjective.

I think he may have been talking about people like Sweelink and Gibbons.

[retrouvailles]

I think he may have been talking about people like Sweelink and Gibbons.

Yes, and I referred to them when I said "Baroque and back", which would include those two composers.

[pocho]

Least: I would say Schoenberg

Most: Chopin, Liszt, and Beethoven instantly come to mind.

[richard black]

Most - Debussy. He had the most fantastic understand of what the piano can do.
Least - Debussy. He was always trying to achieve things the piano can't do.

[communist]

Most - Debussy. He had the most fantastic understand of what the piano can do.
Least - Debussy. He was always trying to achieve things the piano can't do.

You make 2 very good points.

I find a lot of his music falls under the fingers very well as well.

[perfect_pitch]

Ignore this post...

[lostinidlewonder]

Kapustin is pretty pianistic at least to me it always feels really comfortable. People like Finissy are unpianistic

[retrouvailles]

MOST PIANISTIC: Maurizio Pollini... (and possibly in the future Valentina Lisitsa)
LEAST PIANISTIC: Lang Lang... (and I do not apologise for that - him plus Richard Kastle)

Wait, they're composers? Oh god, I hope Lang Lang has not soiled the earth with any of his compositions. Richard Kastle's "compositions" are bad enough as it is.

[perfect_pitch]

Whoops - I didn't read the title - I must have assumed it said Most pianistic and unpianistic pianists...

MY MISTAKE!!!

[teccomin]

Most Pianistic: Tchaikovsky (Suprise! He doesn't write much, but listen to his Piano Sonata and the Piano Concerto, they are mean't for the piano!)

Least Pianistic: Debussy or Chopin (Chopin's pieces suit vocal more than piano)

[pianisten1989]

Early beethoven and BACH as most pianitic?! Woah, we have not the same view on that

Liszt is accually pretty pianistic, imo. It's diffucult ofc, but it's not that uncomfortable to play. Bach, on the other hand, has some pieces (E-flat major, WTK I) which are hell.
Chopin is sometimes pretty harsch aswell.

And Schumann is probably the devil himself...

Or do you mean like "discover what the piano can do"-pianistic?
Then the least is probably Haydn.
The most is Beethoven, Liszt and Chopin... I guess...

[orangesodaking]

Whenever I use the term pianistic, I mean the opposite of orchestral (or sometimes choral). That being said, by my understanding Rachmaninoff was a very PIANISTIC composer (you could only orchestrate a small handful of his solo piano pieces well!) and Alkan was one of the least pianistic composers. So much of his solo piano music was orchestral (he emphasized this in his Op. 39 with the Concerto, Symphony, and Orchestra for solo piano) but not just that: His three Scherzi Op. 16, Three Etudes Op. 12, "Quasi Faust" from the Grande Sonate Op. 33, and MANY other works could be orchestrated well. Plus, his Chants (French word for "songs) have some very vocal moments. Alkan was VERY good at writing catchy cantabile melodies in any kind of piece.

[djealnla]

From what I've played, I think that Medtner's polyphony is extremely unpianistic.

I'm not sure about the most pianistic composer, but I've never been really afraid of Beethoven (unless he asks for ridiculous tempi or insane trills).

[opus10no2]

For physical pleasure I'd have to say Alkan for testosterone fueled athleticism and bite.

When it comes to more subtle and complex music I have to say I love the way Godowsky writes for the piano, very difficult but so nuanced and perfectly made for the human hand...he took tonal music to it's logical pianistic extreme in his baroque inspired late romanticism.

[pianoplayjl]

Most: Beethoven

Least: Bach

[retrouvailles]

Most: Beethoven

Least: Bach

The more I play of both, the more I heartily agree with this.

[pianoplayjl]

I hate Bach because his music is so decieving. What looks easy might be hard. What looks hard may not be that hard. And his music is so complex to analyze.

[ihrodolfo]

I don't know the most, but the least is, for sure, Richard Clayderman (ok, not much a composer, but he deserves that condecoration).

[pianoplayjl]

I wouldn't count Clayderman as a composer. I'd say he's like a minimalist composer.

[m1469]

I actually think that Bach is in an entire league of his own with how pianistic his writing is.  I don't just mean to physically play, though that is there, but I mean that the text itself is intimately idiomatic.  It's idiomatic in historical (for him and us), futuristic, as well as in timeless ways and in everything between.  

[retrouvailles]

I don't think Bach had the idiomatic capabilities (other than pitch range) of the instruments in mind that he wrote for while he was writing his works. I would argue that this is why his music can be so difficult to play on piano. You really don't get idiomatic writing for the keyboard until Mozart.

[arensky]

Most pianistic:  Liszt

Least pianistic:  Beethoven

[pianoplayjl]

Hey! how dare you say Beethoven!

[m1469]

I don't think Bach had the idiomatic capabilities (other than pitch range) of the instruments in mind that he wrote for while he was writing his works. I would argue that this is why his music can be so difficult to play on piano. You really don't get idiomatic writing for the keyboard until Mozart.

I understand why somebody would say that, but I disagree for what I think is good reason ... but, for now I'll save that explanation for a Thesis or Dissertation ... if, in fact, I ever write one .

[pianoplayjl]

Unpianistic: sorabji.