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Topic: Haydn VS. Mozart  (Read 5598 times)

Offline Antnee

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Haydn VS. Mozart
on: June 09, 2004, 04:15:49 AM
I think Haydn Sonatas Kick Mozart's in the ass. They just seem to have something a bit more... I'm not quite sure what... But they are definitely better than Mozart's.
What do you guys think? Which are your favorites? Do you play any?

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline Tash

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 03:50:09 PM
i love haydn and his sonatas they are definately better than mozart's in terms of playing them. i generally find them more enjoyable and tend to match my style of playing more than mozart. so i was playing them for several years of exams until my teacher told me i needed to play some other composers' sonatas so attempted mozart and got fed up with it and moved onto beethoven who is good but i prefer to listen to them rather than play them. ie. haydn is the bomb
'J'aime presque autant les images que la musique' Debussy

Offline bernhard

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #2 on: June 10, 2004, 01:24:22 AM
Definitely. Haydn is far superior to Mozart (at least as far as piano sonatas are concerned). I find him much more varied, much more inventive and much more musical. Also I love his musical humour (quite rare amongst composers who are usually much better at expressing angst, grief, passion and other heavy feelings).

It is a real shame how underrated and underplayed Haydn is.

I like all of his sonatas, but I am particularly fond of these:

XVI/8 in G
XVI/9 in F
XVI/10 in C [wonderful menuet (2nd mov) and presto (3rd mov)]
XVI/4 in D
XVI/ 12 in A [wonderful menuet and trio (2nd mov)]
XVI/22 I E [Great 1st mov (Allegro)]            
XVI/27 in G
XVI/ 34 in Em [wonderful 3rd mov (vivace molto)]
XVI/46 in Ab [Beautiful adagio (2nd mov) and great presto (3rd mov)]
XVI/50 in C [masterpiece of the piano literature]
XVI/52 in Eb [masterpieces of the piano literature]

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline xenon

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #3 on: June 10, 2004, 01:41:34 AM
I too prefer Haydn over Mozart.  Haydn's music has so much more character compared to the rather flat-line Mozart.  Mozart's music is very pretty...too very pretty :p.  Haydn's music has dynamic character, etc.
You can't spell "Bach" without "ach"
-Xenon

Offline Antnee

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #4 on: June 10, 2004, 04:07:04 AM
I agree, Bernhard, especially on his Eb sonata. I love it!!
It seems to use the keyboard so much more than mozart's and has much more sonority to it which is why I like it and it's something Mozart seems to lack...
and it is a shame he is not played more... His name should be just as well known as Mozart's  >:(

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline chopin2256

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #5 on: June 10, 2004, 09:14:30 AM
I dont know anything about haydn's music, so I will just say this:

Mozarts piano music sucks.  Very very very dull.  However even though it sucks, and is simple, Mozart wrote catchy tunes, and I bet there is at least one or two popular piano pieces we all have heard by him.

Obviously his talent was in writing for anything but the piano.  His hits, which include string quartets, symphonies/operas are more popular, for the same reasons I guess....catchy tunes.  Alot of non classical people know mozart because of this.  Thats probably why he has a bigger name.  Same goes with Beethoven, everyone knows his 5th and the choral part of his 9th, even if they dont know the name of the piece.

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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #6 on: June 10, 2004, 12:55:50 PM
Isn't comparing Haydn and Mozart like comparing Washington apples to Fuji apples?

Haydn has the be the musicaliest humoroustious composer who ever composed.  Then there is PDQ Bach.  But Haydn had a sense of humor which can be appreciated.  Mozart did not do this at all.

I'm rambling and have little to add to this thread as my brain is about to get off work so I'll just end this post.

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #7 on: June 10, 2004, 04:43:19 PM
Haydn is probably the most underplayed of the great composers. Even when he is programmed on recitals, he is usually relegated to the beginning of the program - kind of a warm up for the real meat to follow. Too many players give lip service to Haydn without really appreciating him.
As a composer, Mozart was his equal, but unfortunately, Mozart's piano sonatas - like his symphonies - were not his greatest works, and Haydn's piano sonatas are better. With the exception of one or two examples, you could leave off the slow movements of Mozart's sonatas, and it would probably not matter in the least.
Another interesting thing about Haydn is his piano sonatas span a large time period, and you can see his development, as well as the maturing of the classical style in the 50 or so sonatas he composed.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline Antnee

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 04:45:54 PM
The main reason I compare is because they composed during each other's lifetime and often compared each other's works in sense. Mostly it was praise given to each other. Haydn said Mozart was the best ever, while Mozart said Haydn's way of writing was sometimes superior... So I wsas just saying that I agree with Mozart... Haydn is much more enjoyable...

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline bernhard

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #9 on: June 10, 2004, 10:55:13 PM
Quote
Another interesting thing about Haydn is his piano sonatas span a large time period, and you can see his development, as well as the maturing of the classical style in the 50 or so sonatas he composed.


Indeed. And the same can be said about Beethoven.

And since we are comparing Washington and Fuji Apples, let us talk about granny Smiths and Coxes. Even more underplayed than Haydn and in my opinion better than Mozart as well, are C.P.E. Bach’s sonatas and Clementi sonatas (note, not the sonatinas). Apparently Beethoven liked Clementi better than Mozart as well. ;)

Best wishes
Bernhard.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline Antnee

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #10 on: June 11, 2004, 04:32:26 AM
Why are mozart's sonatas so dull I wonder...

His symphonies are quite good, but his piano sonatas...Blah... They lack something....You'd think a musical genius would realize his own, dare I say it, MEDIOCRITY!  ;)

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline Saturn

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Re: Haydn VS. Mozart
Reply #11 on: June 11, 2004, 05:37:45 AM
Quote
Why are mozart's sonatas so dull I wonder...

His symphonies are quite good, but his piano sonatas...Blah... They lack something....You'd think a musical genius would realize his own, dare I say it, MEDIOCRITY!  ;)

-Tony-


It's probably because he composed according to a formula.

When composing a symphony, you have a whole orchestra to work with, so there's a thousand things you can do to make the music interesting.  That's why his symphonies were superb; they showed off his creative genius within the framework of his fomula.  On piano sonatas, though, there's only one instrument, so the formulaic-ness of the music becomes very plain.

Personally, I still like his sonatas, as individual pieces.  They're charming and light and straightforward.  Easy to listen to, easy to appreciate.  But if you were to give a concert of all Mozart sonatas, both audience and performer would get very bored.

- Saturn
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